Veganism

For me Veganism is an ideology. In France, some vegans attack butcheries, other use soft methods under cover of defending animals.

THE VEGANISM:

As far as I understand it, the basic idea of ​​veganism is that the animals being able to suffer have a dignity equal to that of a man. Not only, we must not eat animals, but we must completely stop using animals for anything, no longer exploiting them.

The consequence is that, not only must man no longer eat animal flesh, but we must give up breeding, consumption of all animal products, leather, wool, milk and others.

For me, vegans make a philosophical mistake and don’t realize the consequences of their program.

I am not talking here of those who wish the end of humanity to free the earth from its presence. I’m talking about the average vegan follower.

I am also not indifferent to animal suffering caused by humans and, in general, I agree to limit it as much as possible.

I) The philosophical error made by vegans:

It is that, on the one hand, they introduce an unjustified division between the animal and plant worlds, and on the other hand, deny the difference between man and animal.

In fact, there is continuity between plants, animals and men.

Studies show that plants have sensations, that they are able to fight, to cooperate. Some plant systems are as complex or more than the simplest animal systems.

Likewise, the most complex animals are able to feel feelings, reason, communicate, educate their young and, even for some monkeys, hold a ceremony for their dead. However, there is a fundamental difference between man and animal, which is the ability of man to have consciousness, and abstract thought.

Human beings have the knowledge of good and bad, and feel what modesty is.

In addition, it has never been shown that, in a general way, animals can access abstract thinking, use concepts. No animal write a poem mke a speech on an abstract topic, build an ideology.

I do not exclude that some animals do not have these tools or are not able to have them. Perhaps one day we will have to distinguish between animals, but we cannot generalize to all of them.

Finally, the relationships between humans and animals, complex, have been built over the millennia and vegans deny or refuse these relationships which are not only domination and exploitation, but which can also be of reciprocal affection, for example.

II) The consequences of the vegan program:

The first consequence is the difficulty for vegans to balance their diet. Indeed, humans need proteins and other elements which are found naturally in animal products. This need is especially important in young children whose brains are developing. Obvious cases of dietary deficiencies have been observed among followers of veganism.

To compensate for the shortages, vegans use dietary supplements made for them by the industry, which is not particularly environmentally friendly or natural.

The second consequence is that traditional and ecological agriculture are called into question. In fact, agriculture requires inputs, which can be either of animal origin or of industrial origin. Non-industrial agriculture therefore involves the use of animal products. However, it constitutes an imperative necessity.

Indeed, industrial agriculture destroys flora and fauna. Areas of industrial agriculture are almost biologically dead. This is the first cause of the disappearance of worms and insects, then consequently, the food chains being broken, of a whole series of animals, and their predators.

Some vegans try permaculture, without animal or industrial inputs or by limiting them as much as possible, without it sounding convincing. In any case, at the very least, they make good use of the products naturally supplied by the animals present on the farmed land or nearby, which seems to me contrary to their philosophy.

The third consequence is that the implementation of the vegan program in agriculture will lead to the disappearance of millions of animals and a questioning of the existing balances. There is a precedent in this area, with the shift from agriculture using animal traction to mechanized agriculture. Millions of horses and oxen have been exterminated in a few years, to the point that certain varieties have disappeared or almost disappeared.

Likewise, some animal species only exist in their relationship to humans and have no place in a “natural” ecosystem. The implementation of the vegan program will lead either to their disappearance or to the rupture of existing ecosystems by the massive introduction of new animals, ejected from human space.

Corsica gives an example with the multiplication of wild cows and pigs in an ecosystem where they have no predators and which is not designed to accommodate them. These animals, which are not afraid of humans, multiply, cause great damage and pose really safety problems.

The fourth consequence would be to break the daily relations between millions of humans and millions of animals, to deprive this old lady of her cat, this blind man of his guide, this homeless person of the company of the only being with whom he have a social and confident relationship.

In short, veganism is an ideology, a representation of the world, based on a false assumption and the implementation of the vegan program would lead to a planned disaster.

Incidentally, every human being destroys during his existence millions and millions of microorganisms, whether they are present in his organism, living in symbiosis, or attacking him and making him sick.

Implicitly but necessarily, vegans create hierarchies between animals.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m a vegetarian, but I have met vegans who aren’t vigilante as those you described. Now if you are like most people you want to ask what the difference is between a vegan and vegetarian. I eat real cheese and yogurt and I occasionally eat an egg, which makes me an Ovo-lacto vegetarian. Vegans don’t eat even that high up on the food chain.

Obvious cases of dietary deficiencies have been observed among followers of veganism.

Then they are doing it wrong. I’ve spent a lifetime not eating meat. The only animal products I’ve eaten since I was 13 is cheese, yogurt and eggs (not all the time or I’d have a cholesterol problem) and I am more healthy than my cornovore husband. I know this because I do see a doctor regularly and the worst thing I have is a genetic thyroid problem which only started in my 50s.

Indeed, humans need proteins and other elements which are found naturally in animal products.

No they don’t. People can get adequate and sufficient protein from things like beans and rice, as well as other plant sources, such as tofu (I love tofu). This a fallacy of stringent meat eaters who believe they’d die without meat. You won’t. I’ve gone days with only plant based protein. Because it was always a battle at the table one day my mother stopped trying to get me to eat the disgusting meat on plate. I asked her recently how that happen when I was around 13 that the dinner table wasn’t a battle. She said because the pediatrician said to leave me alone. I’d be alright. The doctor was right. I’m now 55 years and probably healthier than most 55 year olds who have a diet heavy on meat, but again, I’m not a militant vegan either.

It is that, on the one hand, they introduce an unjustified division between the animal and plant worlds, and on the other hand, deny the difference between man and animal.

Humans are animals. This is a scientific fact and our nearest cousin is the bonobo, who are 98% genetically similar to us humans.

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/history_26

This one says it’s 99% to the bonobo:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/06/bonobos-join-chimps-closest-human-relatives

In addition, it has never been shown that, in a general way, animals can access abstract thinking, use concepts. No animal write a poem mke a speech on an abstract topic, build an ideology.

Maybe they can’t write a poem or make a speech, but I’m not so sure other apes haven’t built an ideology. Who says it has to be written? Some apes have hierarchies. Many gangs of apes have hierarchies and to me that could be an ideology, which isn’t written. People said that about Native Americans when the white man came, because many tribes didn’t have a written language and weren’t Xian, even called the N.A. savages. The Cherokees were the first to have a written language- after the white man came, thanks to one member of their tribe, yet the white man couldn’t see that Native Americans weren’t savages.

Let me just shorten this and then we can continue with the gaps. I do agree with you concerning the extremists and I’ll tell you why, but it has nothing to do with diet, although it could depending on how you view it. There are groups like A.L.F., PETA (can’t stand Ingrid Newkirk- she’s an insane extremist), and other extremist groups who call themselves vegans and when they talk about some of the things you mention and then some. Then they contradict themselves.

I’ll use Ingrid Newkirk, an avowed vegan, but she is so ignorant of other animals. She’s a vegan, but yet her organization, which she heads (unless there’s been changes) kills more cats and dogs than any other animal shelter. She blew off No Kill Shelters, saying it would never work and other animals shouldn’t be pets- full stop. Add to that (and I’ll have to hunt down the video she said this) she said, referring to labs that test on other animals, she admired groups like ALF and if she had the guts, she’d blow the the labs too. EXCUSE ME! She’d be killing the vary animals she says she want to save and maybe humans too. Here she talks about being a vegan- not for health reason and sure as hell not to save them from cruelty, because she like how many cats and dogs they gas and crap. She actually hates other animals, if you want to get right down to it. Her reasons for not eating dead animals are a long ways from being reasonable, ethical, oreven sane for that matter. There really is no ideology, not even her calling herself an atheist (she gives atheists a bad name, but that’s another story, even if it is tied into this topic) to her thoughts. Rather, it is insanity, that includes a hatred of other animals, not a love for them, not a spiritual thing, and not a welfare thing. She does more harm than good to animals and if you want me to find the videos where she spews B.S. and turned it into a cult (yeah I know, I just contradicted myself) of animal destruction, cruelty, and asinine ads. She is an extremist much like religious extremists, even though she says she’s an atheist. She has no business being near other animals and it’s a good thing she never had children too. She had herself spayed at an early age- for the planet rolling eyes. I don’t think she’d be able to be a good parent to little human apes. I’m so glad didn’t have a kids, because she’d either kill them or severely abuse them. BTW, seeing her freezer in the video, she eats nothing but Amy’s [processed] vegetarian/vegan foods, which we all know a diet of nothing but process foods is not healthy either.

But yes, even as a vegetarian, I have my beefs (no pun intended) with vegan extremists and always have. It’s just a bit different from yours and I know the difference between them.

That said though, for those who are honestly interested in asking why I’m a vegetarian or why I’m a vegetarian as opposed to not vegan, I will gladly answer. I will also gladly answer what I find annoying about vegans (extremists or not). I’m willing to have a civilized discussion about the topic, but not one that attempts to convert someone to either side. That works about as well as attempting to convert someone to a religion. My husband eats what I cook, but he also cooks for himself or cooks up some foul smelling dead animal to add to what I fix if he doesn’t want the vegetarian entree I fix (most of the time eats what I cook). After knowing me for 25 years before we married and being married for 7 years to him, I haven’t tried to convert him [nor he me], but he knows why I don’t eat meat and sort of understands. He’s never once tried to convince me to eat any dead animal.

Thanks for yours ideas Mriana. I ma interested.

And i don’t mix vegans and vegetarians. vegetarians as you use animal products, as cheese.

Vegans don’t eat animals, don’t eat animal products and would not wear leather shoes.

I agree Humans are animals. And some animals are over others.

I’m glad you don’t mix up the two groups and understand the difference. I grew up on a farm and believe that if you treat chickens and cows right, they will freely give you their eggs and milk. You give them the respect due to them as a species and they will willing give. I used to carry my chickens around like one would cats, as did my grandmother and her sisters. Now days, farmers have lost that touch of treating Old Bossy with love and respect, tying their utters up to a machine and pumping them with hormones and antibiotics in an effort to make money. It’s become nothing more than a business of greed and other animals don’t function so well that way and resent being treated like objects, which shows in how much they produce. If they don’t produce farmers pump them with drugs to make them produce or kill them, which is right, but it isn’t something to go our and start being a vigilante about. I find it a good thing that we now have Native Americans in our government. The newest one is on environmental, if I remember correctly. It would be good to have one who deals with farmers to encourage more humane practices- stop overcrowding, less drugs, etc We can’t do no drugs, because sometimes an antibiotic is necessary, but this overuse of antibiotics is causing even humans to have antibiotic resistance. That’s just for starters, but in all honesty, the position doesn’t have to be filled by a Native American, just by someone who wants to improve farming practices. However, that’s not why I’m a vegetarian, though it helps. lol

I agree Humans are animals. And some animals are over others.
That is a debatable question. It assumes that each animal is an entity in and of itself, but that is far from truth. Each animal is a microbiome, a world made up of some 10 % host cells and 90% bacterial cells, intertwined in a symbiotic relationship without which all the organisms that keep the entire biome could not remain alive. Bacteria are the indispensible organisms what keep our human microbiome alive.

Human microbiome

The human microbiome is the aggregate of all microbiota that reside on or within human tissues and biofluids along with the corresponding anatomical sites in which they reside,[1] including the skin, mammary glands, placenta, seminal fluid, uterus, ovarian follicles, lung, saliva, oral mucosa, conjunctiva, biliary tract, and gastrointestinal tract.
Types of human microbiota include bacteria, archaea, fungi, protists and viruses. Though micro-animals can also live on the human body, they are typically excluded from this definition. In the context of genomics, the term human microbiome is sometimes used to refer to the collective genomes of resident microorganisms;[2] however, the term human metagenome has the same meaning.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_microbiome#

These symbionts are what keep us alive.!

 

 

That’s just for starters, but in all honesty, the position doesn’t have to be filled by a Native American, just by someone who wants to improve farming practices. However, that’s not why I’m a vegetarian, though it helps.
We can start with planting and cropping the restorative and eminently useful Industrial Hemp. This plant has so many beneficial properties it can fill an entire book.

The Environmental Benefits of Using Industrial Hemp
By Andy Kerr

Abstract ; The widespread use of industrial hemp could result in numerous environmental benefits, including but not limited to: (1) less reliance on fossil fuels, especially from foreign sources; (2) more efficient use of energy; (3) less long-term atmospheric build-up of carbon dioxide; (4) forest conservation; (5) agricultural pesticide use reduction; (6) dioxin and other pollution reduction; and (7) landfill use reduction. Hemp is superior to many other plants for many uses. Present limitations on the use of industrial hemp are economically, environmentally and socially irrational. (much, much more......)
http://www.andykerr.net/hemp-environmental-benefits#

 

 

We can start with planting and cropping the restorative and eminently useful Industrial Hemp. This plant has so many beneficial properties it can fill an entire book.

That too could have some environmental issues, especially if we plant too much and there is an overgrowth of hemp. That and there are some people who are allergic to hemp and products made from hemp. I need to find the article that explained why growing hemp could become an environmental issue too. The way it read, the hemp could grow in one area, and spread to other areas, causing issues with plant life. As far as allergies goes, there are people allergic to wheat too, as well as other plants, so that is a non-issue, because there are other plants. As far as clothing goes, people don’t have to wear hemp clothing. I don’t have issues with sheep or llama wool, because the animal doesn’t have to be killed in order to acquire the wool. In fact, if done at the right time, they actually appreciate the hair cut.

And some animals are over others.

I don’t view it that way, but the human animal is the worst of all predators, if you want to go that way. Humans waste more food than any other animal and kill/destroy more than other animals. The human animal is only at the top of the food chain because 1. they declared themselves as the top and 2. they are the only ones guns. 3. They also kill just because- ie poaching and trophy killers. My grandfather, who was a hunter, ranted about poachers often when he was alive and trophy murderers are up there with poachers. They are despicable humans. This is not to say if we hadn’t created guns we’d be equal with other animals, but bears, lions, tigers, etc would be able to overpower us more often.