Controlled Shrinking of Economies a Better Bet to Slow Climate Change Tha

Science and Technology
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All these symptoms of increasing imbalances in nature are a result of the “law of exponential function”, which states that :

One of the foundational notions of sustainability is that long-term exponential growth in a finite world can only lead to catastrophe. In the last half-year or so we have seen a real-time example of exponential growth and perhaps most importantly, how this growth is most appropriately seen as being a characteristic of a diseased system, not a desirable goal.
https://udayton.edu/blogs/udhsi/_resources/20-08-31-brecha-exponential-growth.php
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I wonder if any one here will accept real change that climate action calls for by embracing the activism of XR or the lifestyle change of veganism or the ideology of socialism and communism?
Or population control.

 

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@sabolina

And once again

I wonder if any one here will accept real change that climate action calls for by embracing the activism of XR or the lifestyle change of veganism or the ideology of socialism and communism?

thank you

I am a vegetarian. I’d be a vegan if vegan cheese didn’t taste so nasty. That said, I’m fine with cheese because the cow isn’t murdered for it. I don’t care for Communism, but Democratic Socialism I would be OK with. And before you go on about a rant concerning modern farmers, not all farmers machine milk their cows, like large massive dairy farms. I also know that if we starved the cows and only made grains and corn for humans, then there’d be less methane gas, but I don’t believe in starving domesticated animals. We are responsible for them. We also need to be responsible for all animals, not just the domesticated ones, so that means we must do something about Climate Change, which causes massive fires that kills many wild animals and even some domesticated animals. That said, we also need to listen to the Native Americans (who ironically (some) do eat meat, but thank the animal before eating it. So total veganism is not a necessity, but vegetarianism is better and doesn’t deny the body some important nutrients like veganism does. Vegans often have vitamin B’s, especially B12 deficiency. Yes, a multivitamin can make up for that, but eating one egg a week didn’t kill the chicken who laid it. BTW, I did grow up on a farm and I never ate a single animal, but they obliged us with their milk and eggs. No, it wasn’t a massive dairy farm, but just a small farm that sustained my family and my grandparents had a small on too- chickens and a couple of cows, as well as a huge garden. Trust me, the cows, just like human women, would have had a lot of pain if they let them dry up and accepted their milk. Sadly, the majority of humans don’t even bother to be nice to other animals, ask them, or even thank them. There’s just a way one should act amongst other animals and most humans don’t have it, but that’s another story.

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my friend. I hope you don’t mind me commenting on what you just wrote

 

"I am a vegetarian. I’d be a vegan if vegan cheese didn’t taste so nasty. That said, I’m fine with cheese because the cow isn’t murdered for it. "

 

Bobby cows cannot be allowed to drink the mother’s milk and males can’t produce milk for the farmer so they are put to death.

 

“I don’t care for Communism, but Democratic Socialism I would be OK with.”

 

Democratic Socialism is useless. Won’t change anything. Read Amie Parnes and Jonathan Allen’s recent account of the 2020 election entitled Lucky: How Joe Biden Barely Won the Presidency. Lucky shows how the ruling class, through the Democratic Party, brings to bear 200+ years of experience to accomplish its chief task: crushing left-wing opposition and ensuring that the interests of working people have no impact whatsoever on state foreign or domestic policy.

 

 

 

“And before you go on about a rant concerning modern farmers, not all farmers machine milk their cows, like large massive dairy farms.”

 

The cows are artificially inseminated by sticking a fist full of the bulls semen up its backside. We call this rape in human terms.

 

“I also know that if we starved the cows and only made grains and corn for humans, then there’d be less methane gas, but I don’t believe in starving domesticated animals.”

 

Who is talking about starving the cow? The call is for stop breeding them into existence.

 

" We are responsible for them. We also need to be responsible for all animals, not just the domesticated ones, so that means we must do something about Climate Change, which causes massive fires that kills many wild animals and even some domesticated animals. That said, we also need to listen to the Native Americans (who ironically (some) do eat meat, but thank the animal before eating it."

 

There is no need to eat meat in today’s world when there are many alternatives .

 

“So total veganism is not a necessity, but vegetarianism is better and doesn’t deny the body some important nutrients like veganism does. Vegans often have vitamin B’s, especially B12 deficiency.”

 

Lots of persons on carnivore and omnivore diets take supplements. Vegans taking B12 is a spurious argument at best.

 

"Yes, a multivitamin can make up for that, but eating one egg a week didn’t kill the chicken who laid it. BTW, I did grow up on a farm and I never ate a single animal, but they obliged us with their milk and eggs. "

 

The male chicks are killed (crushed) as they cannot produce eggs. Lots of suffering and cruelty here.

 

“No, it wasn’t a massive dairy farm, but just a small farm that sustained my family and my grandparents had a small on too- chickens and a couple of cows, as well as a huge garden. Trust me, the cows, just like human women, would have had a lot of pain if they let them dry up and accepted their milk.”

 

Again the cow is kept constantly pregnant to produce milk and her babies are taken away from her to stop drinking it. After the cow stops being able to produce milk, it is sent to the slaughterhouse well before it reaches the age of natural life

 

“Sadly, the majority of humans don’t even bother to be nice to other animals, ask them, or even thank them. There’s just a way one should act amongst other animals and most humans don’t have it, but that’s another story.”

 

Can stop the suffering and torture by refusing to participate in the industry that breeds them. No demand no supply.

 

No comment of the support for XR direct activism for climate change action

 

Thank you

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Oh my friend, let me tell you, not all farms are like that. Besides, if bull calves are turned into veal, then the farmer makes money, but again, there are other purposes for bull calves and they are allowed to drink the milk.

Democratic Socialism is useless.

Oh contraire, but do go on spreading falsehoods. Any form of government can be corrupted.

The cows are artificially inseminated by sticking a fist full of the bulls semen up its backside. We call this rape in human terms.

This is true for some farms, but not all. Obviously you haven’t been on very many farms, if any. Keep in mind, I spent some time living on farms as a kid and there are still some that are humane.

There is no need to eat meat in today’s world when there are many alternatives .

I never said there was a need to eat meat. I am a vegetarian, dear. That means, I do not eat meat.

Vegans taking B12 is a spurious argument at best.

Actually, many vegans are low in B12. That’s not a spurious argument.

The male chicks are killed (crushed) as they cannot produce eggs. Lots of suffering and cruelty here.

ROFLMAO! Do you really believe that? That isn’t true. You have to have male chicks or there won’t be any chicks. That is not only stupid, but the farmer would not be able to make money without a means to reproduce. If any farmer did that, that would mean they didn’t know how to actually farm. Again, I did grow up on a farm as a kid. I do know how farmers make money and that’s not it.

Again the cow is kept constantly pregnant to produce milk and her babies are taken away from her to stop drinking it. After the cow stops being able to produce milk, it is sent to the slaughterhouse well before it reaches the age of natural life

Again, you are believing fallacies. None of that is actually true of real farmers. Maybe those who are greedy and want to milk the cow all the time, but there is no need to keep a cow pregnant. As long as she is milked at least twice a day, she will produce milk, even if she isn’t pregnant. She does have to be pregnant once, but after that, if she is milked twice a day, she will give milik until she hits cow menopause. Constant pregnancy isn’t necessary and to remove the baby before that baby has had a couple weeks of mother’s milk, is plain foolish and doesn’t make a profit. By the same token, it damages the health of a cow to be constantly pregnant, which also means a loss of profits. The biggest problem with that though is it shows that someone has never lived on a farm to know that as long as the cow is milked, constant pregnancy isn’t necessary to produce milk.

It never ceases to amaze me how those who never grew up on a farm are clueless as to how things are really done on a farm. There are humane farmers still. I am a vegetarian for health reasons, humane reasons, and my own views of our relationship to other animals. That said, it never ceases to amaze me how ignorant the animal rights extremists are.

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This is easy to refute

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And taking B12 supplements is not an argument against veganism. People on all sorts of diets take supplments

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“I never said there was a need to eat meat. I am a vegetarian, dear. That means, I do not eat meat.”

of course my retort here was to you inserting the American Indian needing to eat meat.

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No it’s not easy to refute and I did not say Native Americans need to eat meat. I told you their practices concerning other animals, which involves “all may relations” philosophy.

Back to that chicken crap site.

Not ALL farmers are like that and not ALL farmers practice that barbaric torture either. To think they do, means you do not understand farmers and farming. I’ll give you an example of farmers who practice humane farming (it’s the same group):

Farmers 4 Animal Welfare…

Now maybe they don’t make as much money of the more barbaric farmers, but they do make sustaining money that keeps going for a long time. On top of it all there is a big difference between animal welfare groups and animal rights groups. Animal rights groups, such as PETA (I can’t stand Ingrid Newkirk, who murders animals), are extremists and kill more animals than welfare activists. PETA knows nothing about animals and doesn’t even care about animals. They are extremists who kill other animals, nothing more. Newkirk even insisted that No Kill Shelters would fail and her way of murdering cats and dogs was best. We proved her wrong.

Welfare groups are not extremists and kill less animals than PETA ever did.

Here’s a couple of farm animal welfare groups (this is not an indorsement for eating other animals, just a note of farmers working for animal welfare):

https://www.worldanimalprotection.org/our-work/animals-farming-supporting-70-billion-animals/farm-animal-welfare

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As for Newkirk, I can even give video of her speaking hateful crap towards other animals. I even thinks she has some mental health issues. She got herself fixed in her early twenties, because she believes this world is really horrible. I’m really surprised she hasn’t offed herself with that thinking and she doesn’t even believe we should have other animals as family members or emotional support, despite the science that says other animals help with our mental health. She’s a horrible woman leading a cult group and anything she says about other animals is not even scientifically based. She says stuff out pure ignorance. I don’t have time this morning to find the video where she said she’d blow up labs if she had the guts, because I have to get ready for work, but the very thought shows she doesn’t care about other animals. To blow up labs is doing the same thing as those who do experiments on them. There are sanctuaries for lab animals, which allows them to live out their lives in true freedom. Newkirk believes dead animals have freedom. She’s mentally ill.

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PETA was one of my first major experiences of cognitive dissonance. My sister got me into it when she got her first vet tech job, then she switched to cancer research and everyone there made jokes about PETA. Once I started looking into what they did, from sources not inside PETA, I found lies and exaggerations. Now I’m more into “Food Science Babe” and “Genetic Literacy Project”.

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Yes, PETA is one of the worst animal rights extremist groups ever. They are so far extreme that they are one in the same as those who say People Eating Tasty Animals and insist that you have to eat animals to survive. PETA is just as bad, if not one in the same and they are just as ignorant about other animals too.

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My friend Mriana you are a master at butchering talking points. Could you steel man my points on the dairy and egg industry?

and this has been up there in the hall of fame as the howler of all time

“That said, we also need to listen to the Native Americans (who ironically (some) do eat meat, but thank the animal before eating it.” Killing someone and thanking them for the opportunity is a moral act according to the book of Mariana

 

listen up rapists pedophiles etc just pay some respect to your victims and say thank you

 

 

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@sabolina

Killing someone and thanking them for the opportunity is a moral act according to the book of Mariana

First off you butchered my name. Second, you don’t understand Native American culture in which to accuse them of being pedos, which is just plain disrespectful.

Lastly, it is well known that PETA is doesn’t know anything about animals and spread conspiracies, lack of knowledge, and lies. As I said in another thread, PETA isn’t a respected source.

PETA kills more animals than farmers

Give me a minute and you can hear it from Crazy Newkirk, who needs mental help.

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This video has one of her mouth pieces sounding like a Scientologist at a Q&A forum and then he’s called on it by another after his hypocrisy. BTW, PETA sounds like Auswitch for cats and dogs. My biggest fear though is that humans will spay and neuter so many cats and dogs that eventually we won’t have any more cats and dogs. PETA once spade someone’s horse. A horse! The owner was livid and rightly so, in part because horses do not have litters (one, two tops a pregnancy). You start spaying horses and before long, there won’t be horses able to reproduce. Eventually, we may find we spayed or neutered all the cats and dogs and the last of them dies out. Humans are really great at causing other animals extinction. That said though, I’m not against spaying and neutering 100%. It’s like with humans, only in this case, the humans make the choice for the animal, but we must keep in check the numbers of cats and dogs so that we don’t spay and neuter to extinction. We really need to keep checks and balances on cats and dogs, so we will have them for a long time.

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Long about the 1:15 minute mark, Ingrid starts talking and she comments on the “horrors of this world” and apparently it’s so bad she doesn’t see any reason to bring a life into this world. I don’t see how this world is always horrifying, but she makes it as though life is horrible. So horrible she had herself spayed at an early age. She didn’t have time for a marriage and doesn’t have time for a companion on four-legs, yet she thinks she knows all about other animals. She does not. Then she picks up a dead bird. Not only is there no respect for the dead bird or humans. She put the bird under a plant near a human home! Not only does a rotting corpse have a oder, but they carry diseases! This science she doesn’t seem to recognize. Did she wash her hands? Not from what anyone can tell, which means, she’s touching her face and other places in her car with death and disease on them. This is not healthy behaviour. No respect for the dead or the living. Then she goes onto people’s property as though she is the ASPCA, which she is not. She has no legal right to trespass on human property, even if the dog is chained up. She should be calling the ASPCA if she believes a dog is being neglected.

I will agree with her on one thing- “my sibling was my dog”. That is a fair statement from an only child, of which I am. My cats, dogs, horse, chickens, cows, goats, were my siblings. I will not argue that, but she doesn’t have a clue about animals. I also agree about the man abusing the bull. I also agree that she did right to take the dog with heartworms to a vet, but that thing is, she shouldn’t have had to be the one to do it. The owner should have taken the dog to a vet long ago, but here’s the thing, Newkirk is right, there are humans that see other animals as just things. They can’t look into another animal’s eyes and see another living being that they are responsible for and this is where another Native American philosophy comes to play- All my relations. This includes other animals. That said, euthanasia is justified for several ill people (animals are, IMO, people in their own right as per their species), but not because they have special needs or because they are homeless.

I will agree not everything Newkirk does or says is horrible or wrong, but she does lack real science concerning other animals.

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However, she is involved with ALF, an animal rights extremist group. They are the taliban of animal rights and while an animal welfare activist can agree on some things animal rights extremists say and do, it’s the extremism and misinformation that I disagree with. In this video, this is what I have known PETA to be and act.

I’m still looking where she supported blowing up labs, but here is another video and as it says, PETA does not look after other animals (some of this video is a clip from a previous video I posted, but there is more than the clip):

He is right, PETA and Newkirk make things look good, but in reality, they hide the bad stuff they do to animals. She puts on a good show, but she really doesn’t care and as I said, I’m still trying to find the video where she supported bombing labs, which does exactly the opposite of what she says she tries to do- it kills not only humans, but the animals too. I’d rather see the apes go to a sanctuary and many do exist.

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Here is the difference between animal welfare and animal rights. As I said, ALF is the Taliban of animal rights, which is extremism.

This young man below is right about sheep shearing. If a sheep doesn’t have it’s fur sheared, it will grow until it weights him down and kill him. Newkirk doesn’t believe the scientific facts about this. She also complains that other animals are rounded up in trucks and sent to mass slaughter, much like Auschwitz, which is the same thing she does when she sends a bunch of cats and dogs to the gas chambers. She’s a hypocrite, who fights against no kill shelters. True no kill shelters don’t send cats and dogs to a kill shelter. Again, they use misinformation and pseudoscience to lure children and adults into believing everything they say. While some of the things they say is true, much of it is not and much of it is extremism on the level of Scientology.

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@sabolina If you think I pulled the Holocaust stuff out of my butt, PETA started it themselves, but can’t see how that comparison can be turned back on them with how they kill cats and dogs in mass. See #7, but also do read all of it.

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“Second, you don’t understand Native American culture in which to accuse them of being pedos, which is just plain disrespectful.”

that’s a disgusting allegation. I am talking about your book morals and you know it. What’s the moral of the story in you bringing up native indians thanking the animal before after it’s killed? Mind you this discussion is all in the pocket of today s range of alternatives to meat.

2nd try. Can you steel man my points about the dairy and egg industry?