Climate Change

Nice videos! I only watched 15 mins of the first one, but still pretty interesting. ?

“I understand from what’s been testified to, the Forest Service and the BLM [Bureau of Land Management], you want very much to work on the issue of climate change. I was informed by the past director of NASA that they’ve found the moon’s orbit is changing slightly and so is the Earth’s orbit around the sun. We know there’s been significant solar flare activity, and so — is there anything that the National Forest Service or BLM can do to change the course of the moon’s orbit, or the Earth’s orbit around the sun?” Gohmert inquired. “Obviously that would have profound effects on our climate.”

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dumbest-guy-congress-asks-u-175403496.html

I guess he missed the part about cause-and-effect - that Climate change hints at moon orbit change.

However, he does have a point about the Earth’s orbit around the sun.

If we speed up the Earth’s orbit around the sun, the Earth will move farther away, receiving less sunlight/energy, and reduce global warming!

So what if we knock off 12 days from the year - one Monday a month (being conservative) How much will that cool the Earth?

On a more serious note:

Cactus experts are tracking an unprecedented outbreak of “side blooms” on saguaros across Southern Arizona this year

The exact cause is unclear, but experts agree the rare display is a sign of distress.


https://apnews.com/article/arizona-science-environment-and-nature-c347457fc698cbe58840f7cdb2ff7a31

The article goes on to explain recent weather extremes. But admits they are just now starting to collect data and cant prove it’s weather/climate related.

It’s been known in other species, strange behavior for reproduction when under stress. Isn’t there a reptile that will change sex if needed?

 

 

 

 

Thank you @mrmhead. That’s actually been on my mind.

Ben Wilder, director of the University of Arizona’s Desert Laboratory, said last year was the driest on record in Tucson and he suspects this year’s strange bloom is a response to that.

Drought since then has only made things worse, according to (Research ecologist Bill) Peachey.

“The last several years haven’t been good for saguaros, so they haven’t grown much,” he told the Star.

As a result, the plants have fewer new spine clusters — known as areoles — from which flowers typically sprout, so they are “reactivating” old, unused budding locations farther down the stem.

Peachy has been studying the same, 2-acre grove of saguaros near Colossal Cave since 1997 and said he’s never seen anything like this.


Last week I drove into Mesa, AZ, along Hwy 87, Payson-Mesa, which drops into the Sonora Desert, heralded by hundreds of Saguaro cactus, along the mountainsides. Large swaths took a hell of a beating last year due to a raging wild fire. It’s been sad to drive through. But now buds everywhere, even many of badly burned cactus show some green and buds. I was wondering about what the heck was going on with those cactus and the blossoms and buds all over like crazy. Unfortunately, as usual, I gotta run through it, no time to stop and get into it. Well hardly I did stop once to check it out closer. Wild, and swear I’ve never seen like that, though over the past decade, and two, of come down this way and always admired the cactuses as we speed on by. :-\

Environmental stress.

Go figure.

They’ve been reporting drought conditions out west. Record low levels for Lake Meade / Colorado river. Another power generating dam on another river is shutting down due to low levels.

Now they are saying incredible heatwave, possibly for weeks. The record heat will reach up into the mountains and increase the melting of the snow. … wouldn’t that at least temporarily relieve the drought conditions “downstream”?

 

 

Relative to the above post:

I saw a show that proposed that the Grand Canyon was not carved out over the course of millions of years, but possibly in a relatively short time.

The “culprit”: A sizeable high elevation / mountain lake burst it’s sides and came crashing down in an avalanche /mudslide that carved out the canyon. … maybe that lake was on a glacier or something that was melting? I forget all the details, it’s been awhile.

 

I would say the fear mongering over the changes in climate lately are something some people use for power and advantage and etc.

I would say the fear mongering over the changes in climate lately are something some people use for power and advantage and etc.
Obviously you don't quite understand the situation. It makes no difference what some people say and for what reason. Climate change is here and will get worse and I am telling this for free. I have nothing to sell you that would either stop or hasten the inexorable progression of the sixth extinction event which we are witnessing.

The Holocene Extinction.

The Holocene extinction, otherwise referred to as the sixth mass extinction or Anthropocene extinction, is an ongoing extinction event of species during the present Holocene epoch (with the more recent time sometimes called Anthropocene) as a result of human activity.[3][4][5]
The included extinctions span numerous families of plants[6] and animals, including mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish and invertebrates. With widespread degradation of highly biodiverse habitats such as coral reefs and rainforests, as well as other areas, the vast majority of these extinctions are thought to be undocumented, as the species are undiscovered at the time of their extinction, or no one has yet discovered their extinction. The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background extinction rates.
The Holocene extinction includes the disappearance of large land animals known as megafauna, starting at the end of the last glacial period. Megafauna outside of the African mainland, which did not evolve alongside humans, proved highly sensitive to the introduction of new predation, and many died out shortly after early humans began spreading and hunting across the Earth;[12][13] many African species have also gone extinct in the Holocene, but – with few exceptions – megafauna of the mainland was largely unaffected until a few hundred years ago.[14] These extinctions, occurring near the Pleistocene–Holocene boundary, are sometimes referred to as the Quaternary extinction event.
A few hundred years ago was the beginning of the "industrial age" and wide spread use of sequestered oil and coal resources.
The most popular theory is that human overhunting of species added to existing stress conditions as the extinction coincides with human emergence. Although there is debate regarding how much human predation affected their decline, certain population declines have been directly correlated with human activity, such as the extinction events of New Zealand and Hawaii. Aside from humans, climate change may have been a driving factor in the megafaunal extinctions, especially at the end of the Pleistocene.
Ecologically, humanity has been noted as an unprecedented "global superpredator"[15] that consistently preys on the adults of other apex predators, and has worldwide effects on food webs. There have been extinctions of species on every land mass and in every ocean: there are many famous examples within Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia, North and South America, and on smaller islands. Overall, the Holocene extinction can be linked to the human impact on the environment.
The Holocene extinction continues into the 21st century, with meat consumption, overfishing, and ocean acidification and the decline in amphibian populations[16] being a few broader examples of a cosmopolitan decline in biodiversity. Human population growth and increasing per capita consumption are considered to be the primary drivers of this decline.[11][17][18][19]
The 2019 Global Assessment Report on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services, published by the United Nations' Intergovernmental Science-Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services, posits that roughly one million species of plants and animals face extinction within decades as the result of human actions.[19][20][21][22] Organized human existence is jeopardized by increasingly rapid destruction of the systems that support life on Earth, according to the report, the result of one of the most comprehensive studies of the health of the planet ever conducted.[23]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

Feast your eyes on this and tell me that man’s impact on the earths ecology is minor.

WORLD POPULATION
7,877,206,590 Current World Population
71,005,568 Births this year
19,033 Births today
29,809,839 Deaths this year
7,991 eaths today
41,195,729 Net population growth this year
11,042 Net population growth today

ENVIRONMENT
2,635,875 Forest loss this year (hectares)
3,548,600 Land lost to soil erosion this year (ha)
18,392,334,246 CO2 emissions this year (tons)
6,082,173 Desertification this year (hectares)
4,963,245 Toxic chemicals released in the environment this year (tons)

WATER
2,247,130,352 Water used this year (million L)
426,791 Deaths caused by water related diseases this year
790,329,763 People with no access to a safe drinking water source

ENERGY
23,188,748 Energy used today (MWh), of which:
19,739,571- from non-renewable sources (MWh)
3,492,023- from renewable sources (MWh)
145,301,845,620 Solar energy striking Earth today (MWh)
4,756,007 Oil pumped today (barrels)
1,468,912,522,567 Oil left (barrels)
15,319 Days to the end of oil (~42 years)
1,088,021,801,878 Natural Gas left (boe)
57,264Days to the end of natural gas
4,304,542,388,323Coal left (boe)
148,432Days to the end of coal

It makes no difference what some people say and for what reason
So what you say makes no difference at all then. OK.
Climate change is here and will get worse Did you really think you would get brownie points for making prophesy?? The bible has plenty of prophesy, and in that case it is mostly history now. You need to back up your utterances of what you claim the future will be like.

The Holocene Extinction…


 

The geologic ages are something recent for which you only thought great ages were involved and ALL the reasons for the ages are religious/belief based. I have my own religion, thanks. Of course there were great changes in life and weather and etc in history. No credit to the belief set called 'climate change.!! None at all.

 

Then you cite the population, as if we should fear that or something!?? My belief set involves children being sent from God.

Then you cite forest loss and etc. Well, the causes are debatable. Some due to fires, clear cutting, etc etc. So?? The greed in man is largely responsible for a lot of this (sin). Also, who says t5he climate should or would not be changing at this point in the history of man? The bible says if God diid not return and step in, man would basically kill all of us! The issue is what is to be done about it? The climatedunnit religion seems to suggest man can save himself. I would suggest NO, man cannot save himself.

 

“It makes no difference what some people say and for what reason”

So what you say makes no difference at all then. OK.

“Climate change is here and will get worse”

Did you really think you would get brownie points for making prophesy?? The bible has plenty of prophesy, and in that case it is mostly history now. You need to back up your utterances of what you claim the future will be like.

“The Holocene Extinction…”
 

The geologic ages are something recent for which you only thought great ages were involved and ALL the reasons for the ages are religious/belief based. I have my own religion, thanks. Of course there were great changes in life and weather and etc in history. No credit to the belief set called 'climate change.!! None at all.

 

Then you cite the population, as if we should fear that or something!?? My belief set involves children being sent from God.

Then you cite forest loss and etc. Well, the causes are debatable. Some due to fires, clear cutting, etc etc. So?? The greed in man is largely responsible for a lot of this (sin). Also, who says t5he climate should or would not be changing at this point in the history of man? The bible says if God diid not return and step in, man would basically kill all of us! The issue is what is to be done about it? The climatedunnit religion seems to suggest man can save himself. I would suggest NO, man cannot save himself.

 

I would suggest NO, man cannot save himself.
I don't agree. A more accurate assessment is that man will not save himself. We are too spoiled .

As Dr Hellstrom said;

"In fighting the insect we have killed ourselves, polluted our water, poisoned our wildlife, permeated our own flesh with deadly toxins. The insect becomes immune, and we are poisoned. In fighting with superior intellect, we have outsmarted ourselves".
Nor can God save man. If anybody thinks that prayer is going to make any difference, they will be very disappointed. Nature does not work in "mysterious ways" and appealing to it's beneficence is an act of self-delusion. .

“A more accurate assessment is that man will not save himself. We are too spoiled”

So let me get this straight, we ‘could’ but just won’t. Ha. Evidence for that claim? History seems to suggest man can’t save himself without God. (we haven’t saved ourselves yet)

“Nor can God save man. If anybody thinks that prayer is going to make any difference, they will be very disappointed. Nature does not work in “mysterious ways” and appealing to it’s beneficence is an act of self-delusion. .”

 

Evidence for the claim God can or cannot do…anything? Ha. Try not to express baseless opinion as fact. Tks

Then you cite the population, as if we should fear that or something!??
What are you telling us, you think population makes no difference to how we are damages our Earth's biosphere?

How’s that work. Sound to me about as logical as believing withdrawals from your bank don’t matter to your bottomline.

My belief set involves children being sent from God.
How does a imaginary send us children, can you explain?
Evidence for the claim God can or cannot do..anything? Ha. Try not to express baseless opinion as fact. Tks
Our "Gods" are created from within our minds. They do not come to us from out in the universe.

 

Dad1, have you ever taken the time to learn anything about our planet global heat and moisture distribution?

Have you ever taken the time to learn about our atmosphere and how it manages to insulate the surface of our planet from the frigid black near emptiness of space?

Have you ever taken the time to learn about the element Carbon and how that drives the insulating ability of our atmosphere, (though it gets complicated and other elements are involved, just that Carbon Dioxide is the biggest driver of that insulating ability?

Do you think this is something to ignore?

 

Oh Dad1 take a look at the menu bar above the comment block. If you’re wanting to isolate a quote from someone, highlight it and hit that ’ " ’ button.

It’ll make your responses less confusing.

There’s also a “link” button and an edit button.

 

 

Welcome to the forum, we don’t play ruff, but we do love facts and honesty over self indulgent outta this world ideas.

OK tks

What are you telling us, you think population makes no difference to how we are damages our Earth’s biosphere?

How’s that work. Sound to me about as logical as believing withdrawals from your bank don’t matter to your bottomline.


Population is not determined by man. So if the creator sends a lot of people He can provide.

How does a imaginary send us children, can you explain?
You have evidence the Almighty is imaginary then? Let's see it.
Our “Gods” are created from within our minds. They do not come to us from out in the universe.
That is waving away the reality that the majority of all mankind has experienced since ever there was a man. We should deny fulfilled prophesy, the risen Christ, angels, miracles, and etc etc ...why?
Have you ever taken the time to learn about our atmosphere and how it manages to insulate the surface of our planet from the frigid black near emptiness of space?

Have you ever taken the time to learn about the element Carbon and how that drives the insulating ability of our atmosphere, (though it gets complicated and other elements are involved, just that Carbon Dioxide is the biggest driver of that insulating ability?


 

Why ignore the temporary realities of the day? God changes things and He knows what we need. He also can change nature and all the ways things work. Presto. No problem whatsoever. Why would we play Chicken Little then?

Is the topic Climate Change?

@Lausten. Is the topic Climate Change?
Guess it's shifted to blaming God, or something like that? I am curious to hear Dad1 explain what his words mean. Besides, putting "Climate Change" on this thread was just click-bait to begin with, it's never actually been about Climate Change.
@Dad1. So if the creator sends a lot of people He can provide.
You mean the "Creator"?

Who’s that?

How did you learn about Him? As in, from where do you take your authority to speak about the Creator with any intellectual certainty?

I myself, find it curious thinking of a “creator” as a him, rather than a her. I like “her” because all of us witness females being who life springs from.

<blockquote>@Dad1.      You have evidence the Almighty is imaginary then? Let’s see it.</blockquote>
First you said "imaginary" - I didn't.   I'm saying that God is a product of our Human Mindscape, which is basically mind, but I like mindscape because that's what our minds and thoughts are like, they create the mental landscape of our thoughts, and our mind is what our brain, body, environment produce.  Sort of like the two sides of a coin, but as in, outside and inside.

It's anything that can be summed up in a little soundbite.  To appreciate the answer to that question requires a lot of learning and thinking about our biology and the so-called mind-body problem and frankly, about our Earth and evolution and how this solar system and planet created the conditions for life to form and how that life was impacted by evolving conditions, day by day over the past four and half billion years.
<blockquote>@Dad1.  Why ignore the temporary realities of the day?</blockquote>
How can you think that I'm ignoring the temporary realities of the day, I'm the one that loves teaching about evolution, that is Earth's change of time.

&nbsp;

What about Earth?    Does it mean anything beyond a resource to consume and discard as fast as possible?

&nbsp;

You seem to be a 'god fearing' Christian, so I should probably introduce myself.  Since I think you've come here seeking a challenge and I'm ready to deliver and we might as well be civil and friendly about it.

There was a few years, preteen and early teen, when I was as deep/sincere a believer as you could hope for.  I loved Jesus and his story and even had moments where .....  Can't even bring myself to think it any more.  Now I still love Jesus, but appreciate him more as mentor, saint, teacher of The Passion, a guide to help a certain people through their personal trials, and tribulations, self-inflicted and happenstance.  Helping us see the light at the end of our darkest hours, and reassuring us that if handled well, the most adverse situations, can bring about the profoundest constructive personal changes.  Or, at least, help you get on with life, doing the best you can with what you have.  So I do appreciate the beauty within Christianity, but that can't blind me to all the horrors that Christianity is responsible for, past and current.

Me, myself, I fear neither my death, nor any "god" because I appreciate myself as an element in that fantastical flow of Evolution that is this planet.

The label that best fits me is, Earth Centrist.

Heaven and hell doesn't exist anywhere but in our heads, our Mindscape as I like to say. There's plenty of physical evidence for that mindscape.  Bet you can't produce any evidence for either eternal hell or heaven..  ;-)

&nbsp;

If you could get a little more specific of what kind of evidence you'd like to see, maybe I can produce.  As you'll be able to see at the following link, I have been giving it a lot of thought, so would like to give it a  shot.

&nbsp;

Cheers,

<a href="https://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2020/03/earth-centrism-geocentrism-seriously.html">https://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2020/03/earth-centrism-geocentrism-seriously.html</a>

&nbsp;

&nbsp;
First you said “imaginary” – I didn’t. I’m saying that God is a product of our Human Mindscape, which is basically mind, but I like mindscape because that’s what our minds and thoughts are like, they create the mental landscape of our thoughts, and our mind is what our brain, body, environment produce. Sort of like the two sides of a coin, but as in, outside and inside.
A rose by any other name is still a rose. If something is in your mind we can use the word imaginary.

 

It’s anything that can be summed up in a little soundbite. To appreciate the answer to that question requires a lot of learning and thinking about our biology and the so-called mind-body problem and frankly, about our Earth and evolution and how this solar system and planet created the conditions for life to form and how that life was impacted by evolving conditions, day by day over the past four and half billion years.
The billions of years is fantasy and purely belief based. The issue is not what creation scenarios a man can make up or 'imagine'. The issue is what is known and tested and evidenced. The origin fables of so called science are not known and wholly belief based. No matter how much learning one does, if something is NOT KNOWN, it could not help at all.
How can you think that I’m ignoring the temporary realities of the day, I’m the one that loves teaching about evolution, that is Earth’s change of time.
No, what was meant was that I have no reason to ignore the nature/realities/temporary realities of laws of nature of today. One cannot use those to model creation unless one can FIRST prove that it was always as we see it now.
What about Earth? Does it mean anything beyond a resource to consume and discard as fast as possible?
We all do the best we can. No matter what man does though he cannot save himself of earth. That is way out of his little pay grade.
You seem to be a ‘god fearing’ Christian, so I should probably introduce myself. Since I think you’ve come here seeking a challenge and I’m ready to deliver and we might as well be civil and friendly about it.
I try to make it about ideas and not get personal. When people have longstanding misconceptions destroyed, I do not want that to be personal, only a learning experience.
There was a few years, preteen and early teen, when I was as deep/sincere a believer as you could hope for. I loved Jesus and his story and even had moments where ….. Can’t even bring myself to think it any more. Now I still love Jesus, but appreciate him more as mentor, saint, teacher of The Passion, a guide to help a certain people through their personal trials, and tribulations, self-inflicted and happenstance. Helping us see the light at the end of our darkest hours, and reassuring us that if handled well, the most adverse situations, can bring about the profoundest constructive personal changes. Or, at least, help you get on with life, doing the best you can with what you have. So I do appreciate the beauty within Christianity, but that can’t blind me to all the horrors that Christianity is responsible for, past and current.

 

 

Me, myself, I fear neither my death, nor any “god” because I appreciate myself as an element in that fantastical flow of Evolution that is this planet.


Christ never taught anyone to be evil and horrific. When I see people do wickedness in God’s name I know they are hiding behind a false front. The goal of the Serpent since the garden has always been to cast doubt on God’s word and character.

Being deceived into not believing creation can result in some fantastical delusions. Yes there is evolving that goes on, but that is a created trait we have and part of life. That in no way is why we came to exist.

 

The label that best fits me is, Earth Centrist.


God is moving here one day and died to save the folks on earth, so I guess He is quite earth focused and centred also.

 

Heaven and hell doesn’t exist anywhere but in our heads, our Mindscape as I like to say. There’s plenty of physical evidence for that mindscape. Bet you can’t produce any evidence for either eternal hell or heaven..
You cannot say how the spiritual exists. All you are doing is trying to wave it away in an act of denial. As for evidence of hell or heaven, I have plenty. Once we meet Him and know Him, we know the difference.
If you could get a little more specific of what kind of evidence you’d like to see, maybe I can produce. As you’ll be able to see at the following link, I have been giving it a lot of thought, so would like to give it a shot.
The context was concerning God and how you have no evidence He is not alive and well and real. He is, so I know you have no evidence to support your statements to the contrary.