I had this youtube that I loved and now I can’t find it. It was a about 15 minutes of a guy talking about photons hitting our eyes and how that inspired him in an almost spiritual way. He goes on to denigrate in the second half, but anyway. I lost the darn book mark. Anybody remember that one?
I knew that if I posted this, I would magically find it. It was in my “Documentaries” folder of YouTubes.
The universe is truly awesome, very numinous. Everything we can find in space is in us. We are part of the universe, made up everything in it. Science explains this very well and this explanation sort makes Pantheism and Naturalism sound reasonable, because we are part of nature and the universe and it is all (both nature and the universe) in us. I think religion usurped the the tools to trigger awe and wonder and anything that triggers awe outside of church with all it’s candles, music, preaching, rituals, etc… is also God, but nature is not God, because God is some sort of being, we can’t see, but we can get to know Him through His creation. To that I say, no, no, no! God is not a man or a woman. It’s not white, with blue eyes and blondish hair. It’s not a being at all. IF there is a god, it has no gender at all, no form, no being, no shape… It just is. It is nature, it is all creatures, great and small, it is the earth, it is space, it is the universe. It is all encompassing and we are in it, as it is in us. Whatever it is. It is a feeling, an emotion, it is you and me, it is everyone, it all animals, a tree, a flower, all plants, the earth itself, but no. That’s not right either.
It is Neti Neti (Hindu for “not this, not that”) and as the Tao says, that which can be described, is not the Tao at all. Yet, our actions affect everyone in some form or another and sometimes it might not affect that person on the other side of the planet or even register, but in the grand scheme of things, we are all one with the universe, because we did come from the stars or rather the universe itself.
The bottomline is that the idea of a deity is a human creation. God did not create us, but rather humans created god(s) and how do you kill a god? Stop believing in it. We must throw everything we ever thought about human created deity out, in favour of science. Science can help a lot in working towards not believing in myth, but yet, in some respects, there is some value in the religious text, especially those like the Tao, which is more nature based, but we cannot get tied up in nature and label it a deity just because we are overtaken with awe from it and find it numinous because then we may end up going back animism which eventually led to religions we see today.
but yet, in some respects, there is some value in the religious text, -- MrianaI've been listening to Bart Campolo podcasts for a while now. He's honing his message. We can respect and use science and still keep some things from religion. Because science tells us that singing together builds community, that discussing the awe and wonder of nature adds to our respect for it and motivates us to preserve it, and stuff like that.
that discussing the awe and wonder of nature adds to our respect for it and motivates us to preserve it, and stuff like that.
I completely agree. Being out in nature can give us numinous feelings and that in and of itself can help give us the desire to respect and preserve it. Of course, discussing it helps too. As you know, like many people, I grew up in a religious household, except my father, who wasn’t religious. He was also very abusive and after an abuse session, my chihuahua was sympathizing with me. Anyway, while looking in my dog’s sympathetic eyes I had a very transcending feeling, which was very numinous. Basically, the external stimuli (my dog’s sympathy) triggered chemicals in my brain that caused these feelings, but I was a kid around 12 years of age. When I told my mother “there’s god” and pointed to my dog, she totally miss understood and went verbally insane on me, in part because I didn’t have the words to articulate what I really meant. I was referring to was my feelings of transcending awe, which I, as a kid, labelled “God” because I didn’t know any better. My mother didn’t ask questions to get the root of what I meant, she just went nuts. Majoring Psychology, a soft science, helped a lot with understanding what occurred.
Great story. Frank Schaeffer talks about seeing God in the face of his grandchild. A little more palatable, but it would still cause a lot of people freak out. Abusive language at a 12 year old though, no excuse for that.
this explanation sort makes Pantheism and Naturalism sound reasonableAnd Sun Worship isn't that off base either. If worship, one must. ;- )
Mriana, I totally agree that science based thinking builds the potential for intense mystical experiences, that are many times more profound and personally solid than the mystical experiences that preacher story telling is capable of (Bible, Koran, philosophical mumbo jumbo) inspiring.
Don’t misunderstand my first line. There’s nothing wrong with worshipping, I even do it with a Thanksgiving, Grateful spirit of heart. Who do I worship to? A vague notion of the universe, works plenty well for me.
I believe the most important point is not to take ourselves too seriously.
That brings me right back to the need to better appreciate and respect the profound divide between our Mindscapes and Physical Reality. 
In fact, I believe that is the key to rationally reconciling
the nearly irresistible human tendency to imbue the complexity of life and evolution with a god, or intelligent designer of some sort ~
with
respect and faith in rational serious science based understanding of physical reality and the world we inhabit.
Ah and then there’s that other form of mystical experience, open to every backbone that can feel the sound. 
Abusive language at a 12 year old though, no excuse for that.
Quite true. When my parents divorced when I was 14, my father lost custody of me for his abuse of me, but what my mother, her sister, and her parents didn’t realize, they were abusive with their religious views. My mother, at 76, is still just as bad with her religious views, but she can’t see it and I don’t wish to argue with her about it, because I don’t know if I have as much time with her as I did my grandmother, who I love dearly despite her religious views and died I at 94 or if it’s as much as I had with my grandfather, who died when he was 75. That said, if my parents weren’t abusive in their own ways, and the judge was able to give me a choice instead of druthers (abuse in more ways than one by my father or religious abuse from my mother’s side), I think I still would have chosen to live with my mother. Then again, if the other abuses weren’t there, maybe I would have chosen my father. When I went to college the first time around (I dropped out and went back after my divorce) my mother insisted I had to study nursing, secretarial, or teaching, preferably at a religious school. I wanted to choose my own major, but that wasn’t happening until later. When I went back, I chose Psychology and my mother et al went nuts again, saying that Psychology of the devil. rolling eyes Anyway, I majored in it anyway and learned a lot, which helped in my journey out of religion and religious belief.
And Sun Worship isn’t that off base either. If worship, one must. ;- )
lol Yeah.
Mriana, I totally agree that science based thinking builds the potential for intense mystical experiences, that are many times more profound and personally solid than the mystical experiences that preacher story telling is capable of (Bible, Koran, philosophical mumbo jumbo) inspiring.
It is more real and profound than anything I ever experienced in church.
Don’t misunderstand my first line. There’s nothing wrong with worshipping, I even do it with a Thanksgiving, Grateful spirit of heart. Who do I worship to? A vague notion of the universe, works plenty well for me.
For me, it is “Mother Earth”, the great Universe, grand scheme, or even WankaTonka (Native American for Great Spirit). The problem with that, is that one can’t use these terms with others, unless they understand that you don’t really mean anything Native American or Wiccan definitions or anything like that. They are just words to attempt to label something that has no words, yet using the only known words humans have- AKA redefining words we already have. So it becomes very personal, unless one asks and sincerely want to know, as well as learn. One can only define/redefine and explain so much before discussion becomes worthless. That said, I worship by respecting nature and other animals, even showing what some may think as “reverence” for it, treating animals with respect, being out in nature when I can, learning as much as I can about all these things via science, and caring for nature to the best of my ability.
Ah and then there’s that other form of mystical experience, open to every backbone that can feel the sound. ?
Most definitely. It too is an external stimuli that triggers chemistry in the brain causing various emotions.