Loosing face by letting these guys make asses of themselves? I disagree.You are deficient at perception. Because you think they are making an ass out of themselves, everybody thinks that way? Well, it appears pretty much everyone here agrees with me, and not you. So, perhaps you are trying to project your perceptual deficit onto me? I don't think everybody agrees with me and never said that I did. And, it appears you believe you can read minds. Good luck with that! Oh yeah all 5 people. I guess that solidifies it then. There's a world outside of this forum Handy....and many more people share my view. Funny that you've come to a conclusion on a situation that is still unfolding. ;-) From what I've seen outside these forums Handydan's view is prevalent. The Bundy led clan is being widely vilified as a bunch of idiots. Except by more copycat terrorists that are seeing the Government as weak and seeing an opportunity to use guns and force to make a point.
Loosing face by letting these guys make asses of themselves? I disagree.You are deficient at perception. Because you think they are making an ass out of themselves, everybody thinks that way? Well, it appears pretty much everyone here agrees with me, and not you. So, perhaps you are trying to project your perceptual deficit onto me? I don't think everybody agrees with me and never said that I did. And, it appears you believe you can read minds. Good luck with that! I think VYAZMA makes a good point - as do the rest of you. It all depends on which audience you are thinking about. I bet there's a large group of folks out who truly believe these guys are heroes, while the government's inaction reinforces their contempt for our government - and puffing up their egos. I was at a doctor's office listening to guy making all sorts of stupid jokes, basically inciting violence against our government - as he's waiting for his Medicaid paid medical visit. How to deal with people who are incapable of introspection and self-skepticism? Heck, look at many of our representatives, you'll find people who sound down right seditious towards our government. For the govmint it's probably heads you lose, tails you lose.
These are people who have apparently benefited from government loans and subsidies, like other ranchers, who have a financial dispute with the feds. They want to make more money. That’s what this is about. They’re manipulating others into thinking something more is involved. As long as others think there is more involved, going after them directly will make it appear to the ignorant that they’re correct.
I think it’s likely that there are others who would be treated differently if they had occupied this refuge. And, simply ignoring the situation isn’t feasible, as it may encourage others to do the same.
Perhaps something less direct would be appropriate. Something like a siege. Nobody in; nobody out. Let them make good their claim they’ll stay for years.
It’s irresponsible to treat this incident as a bunch of yokels who will go away and get bored.
It’s irresponsible on a couple of levels.
- They aren’t just a bunch of yokels who are going to go away.
They’re back…again! - They are armed to the teeth and have stated that they aren’t leaving until the govt gives into their demands.
They have stated that they are prepared to meet force with force. - They have plenty of people around the country who are sympathetic to them or are supporting them.
Perhaps the government should just block access to the site and starve them out.
Aside from the incredible hypocrisy of accepting all sorts of government support and then complaining about government tyranny they continually make the odd claim that the land in dispute belongs to the people, not the government and that they are trying to take it back for the people.
The last time I checked the federal government IS the people (of the people, by the people, for the people… remember?). What these guys are really saying then is that they want to be able to use OUR land for THEIR personal needs as they see fit without having to pay anything or follow any rules. As part owner of that property I disagree.
I think that combat veterans who return home, and no longer have the extreme sense of purpose, and intense fraternalism, and extreme adrenaline rushes, may be particularly susceptible to getting involved in something like this. So I am reticent to make fun of this guy who declares he swore an oath to the Constitution and that he wants to die a free man. But it is pretty crazy.
Loosing face by letting these guys make asses of themselves? I disagree.You are deficient at perception. Because you think they are making an ass out of themselves, everybody thinks that way? Well, it appears pretty much everyone here agrees with me, and not you. So, perhaps you are trying to project your perceptual deficit onto me? I don't think everybody agrees with me and never said that I did. And, it appears you believe you can read minds. Good luck with that! Oh yeah all 5 people. I guess that solidifies it then. There's a world outside of this forum Handy....and many more people share my view. Funny that you've come to a conclusion on a situation that is still unfolding. ;-) I haven't come to a conclusion. But you started this thread with your conclusions. Projection makes for a poor argument style.
Loosing face by letting these guys make asses of themselves? I disagree.You are deficient at perception. Because you think they are making an ass out of themselves, everybody thinks that way? Well, it appears pretty much everyone here agrees with me, and not you. So, perhaps you are trying to project your perceptual deficit onto me? I don't think everybody agrees with me and never said that I did. And, it appears you believe you can read minds. Good luck with that! Oh yeah all 5 people. I guess that solidifies it then. There's a world outside of this forum Handy....and many more people share my view. Funny that you've come to a conclusion on a situation that is still unfolding. ;-) From what I've seen outside these forums Handydan's view is prevalent. The Bundy led clan is being widely vilified as a bunch of idiots. Except by more copycat terrorists that are seeing the Government as weak and seeing an opportunity to use guns and force to make a point. Paranoid.
The government has nothing to loose by letting these nuts throw their tantrum, get bored, and go home. These are some twisted vigilantes, not terrorists. They're trying to provoke the government, not incite terror.Just let them go home right Handy?
Perhaps the government should just block access to the site and starve them out...That sounds like a better course, to me, than sending in agents or troops. Also, notices of potential fines and other prosecutions could be sent to their home addresses in regards to any crime they may have already committed. They espouse a commitment to die for their cause, but I don't want them to die. And I doubt that they will be as eager to, ostensibly, sacrifice something as mundane as money (no adrenaline rush, there).
excerpt:
By Laura Gunderson | The Oregonian/OregonLive January 07, 2016 at 5:16 PM, updated January 07, 2016 at 7:21 PM Many of the anti-government protesters now holed up outside of Burns joined in the tense standoff with federal rangers at Cliven Bundy's ranch in April 2014. Some of the Nevada protesters pointed guns at police and U.S. Bureau of Land Management rangers, briefly blocked the state highway and kicked a police dog. But the state and federal governments have filed no charges against anyone in that confrontation. Such inaction was likely to have consequences, predicted a July 2014 report by the Homeland Security's Office of Intelligence and Analysis. The militants' belief that the standoff "was a defining victory over government oppression is galvanzing some individuals," the report said, linking several criminal acts -- including the murder of two Las Vegas police officers -- to those who helped at Bunkerville.
Perhaps the government should just block access to the site and starve them out...I wonder why they don't put up that blockade, you are welcome to leave, but no one back in. Party's over. Sure you can't surround the entire place, but I imagine the roads going in, and a few known trails - would be all that it would take. Then again the jokers might do all the imploding on their own.
Tearful militant discovers friend drank away donation money: ‘It’s like finding out there is no such thing as Santa’ http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/tearful-militant-discovers-friend-drank-away-donation-money-its-like-finding-out-there-is-no-such-thing-as-santa/ Heartbroken militiaman announced that one of his buddies had walked off the Oregon nature preserve they had overtaken and had holed up in a local motel to drink away donation money. Joe Oshaugnessy, an Arizona militiaman, has been actively seeking volunteers through social media to join the occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. But his friends tearfully announced that Oshaugnessy, who is known as “Capt. O," had left the refuge Wednesday and was instead staying at a motel nearby — as some others associated with the militants have apparently been doing, according to sources. Some of the militants have reportedly been spotted eating at area restaurants during the standoff, as well. The militants have been allowed to come and go freely from the nature preserve in the absence of a law enforcement presence, but at least one of them, Brian “Booda" Cavalier, failed to return after a newspaper report revealed he had lied about serving in the U.S. Marines. ...
Rolling Stone weighs in on the militiamen insurrectionists.
The Dumb and the Restless]
They are a laughingstock, and are not self-aware enough to realize the mistakes they have made.
Rolling Stone weighs in on the militiamen insurrectionists. The Dumb and the Restless] They are a laughingstock, and are not self-aware enough to realize the mistakes they have made.Laughingstock? Hell look at their food stocks?
Bundy has repeatedly said the group is prepared for the long-haul. However during a tour of the site earlier in the day, the Guardian was shown a food storage room that did not look like it could sustain a dozen men for more than a few weeks. It included a cardboard box of apples and oranges, a few dozen pots of instant ramen, 24 cans of chicken noodle soup, a similar number of cans of sweetcorn, peas, beans and chili, and 20 boxes of macaroni and cheese. There were also three sacks of potatoes, one bag of flour, another of rolled oats, boxes of raisins, a single bag of pretzels and one granola bar. (the granola bar was mysteriously missing after the reporter finished his inventory) … www[dot]theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/05/oregon-wildlife-militia-standoff-power-cut-offHey, but there's plenty of beer in town. On the serious side :sick: Gotta wonder why the power wasn't turned off after day one.
You can make a lot of Mac’nCheez in that Dutch Oven.
The government has nothing to loose by letting these nuts throw their tantrum, get bored, and go home. These are some twisted vigilantes, not terrorists. They're trying to provoke the government, not incite terror.Just let them go home right Handy? Yup. Just give em the rope and let em hang themselves. Perhaps after that they get bored and go home, you arrest the leaders when their guard is down and charge them. Then while the leaders are in jail awaiting bail, you arrest and or charge all the others. After the ones who are able to post substantial bails are out, see how willing they are to forfeit their bail and rack up new charges. At that point they are looking at substantial losses in a game they can't win. The only time the government should actually apply force is if there are people in real imminent danger, like they take hostages etc. But this group has a strong need to be seen as good people being trampled by governerment. The moment they clearly endanger someone, they cross their own line. This is public relations poker, and the government has learned how to play the game after past PR catastrophes.
Perhaps after that they get bored and go home, you arrest the leaders when their guard is down and charge them. Then while the leaders are in jail awaiting bail, you arrest and or charge all the others. After the ones who are able to post substantial bails are out, see how willing they are to forfeit their bail and rack up new charges.I was wondering when you were going to come back and backfill your ridiculous comments. Let me guess, your next post asks, "How is that backfilling?" By the way you're armchair strategic noodling of possibilities just make you seem even less informed than when you suggested that "they just go home".
Perhaps after that they get bored and go home, you arrest the leaders when their guard is down and charge them. Then while the leaders are in jail awaiting bail, you arrest and or charge all the others. After the ones who are able to post substantial bails are out, see how willing they are to forfeit their bail and rack up new charges.I was wondering when you were going to come back and backfill your ridiculous comments. Let me guess, your next post asks, "How is that backfilling?" By the way you're armchair strategic noodling of possibilities just make you seem even less informed than when you suggested that "they just go home". I never made claims that needed backfilling. Time will tell who is the ridiculous one. I'm ok however that turns out.
These are people who have apparently benefited from government loans and subsidies, like other ranchers, who have a financial dispute with the feds. They want to make more money. That's what this is about. They're manipulating others into thinking something more is involved. As long as others think there is more involved, going after them directly will make it appear to the ignorant that they're correct. I think it's likely that there are others who would be treated differently if they had occupied this refuge. And, simply ignoring the situation isn't feasible, as it may encourage others to do the same. Perhaps something less direct would be appropriate. Something like a siege. Nobody in; nobody out. Let them make good their claim they'll stay for years.This is the most sensible comment in this thread. There is no need for the Feds to go in guns-a-blazing. Cut off their electricity and water, close the roads and wait them out. They'll give up eventually, unless they are as dumb as cats.
These are people who have apparently benefited from government loans and subsidies, like other ranchers, who have a financial dispute with the feds. They want to make more money. That's what this is about. They're manipulating others into thinking something more is involved. As long as others think there is more involved, going after them directly will make it appear to the ignorant that they're correct. I think it's likely that there are others who would be treated differently if they had occupied this refuge. And, simply ignoring the situation isn't feasible, as it may encourage others to do the same. Perhaps something less direct would be appropriate. Something like a siege. Nobody in; nobody out. Let them make good their claim they'll stay for years.This is the most sensible comment in this thread. There is no need for the Feds to go in guns-a-blazing. Cut off their electricity and water, close the roads and wait them out. They'll give up eventually, unless they are as dumb as cats. That approach didn't work out so well for the Branch Davidians, or Janet Reno's public relations.