Armed citizenry

A couple have shot and killed two police officers at a Las Vegas pizza restaurant before killing a third person and and then themselves inside a nearby Walmart.
A man and woman walked into CiCi’s Pizza and shot at point-blank range Alyn Beck, 42, and Igor Soldo, 32, who were eating lunch on Sunday, Las Vegas police officials said.
One of the suspects shouted: “This is a revolution,” but the motive for the shooting remains under investigation.
One of the officers fired back before he died, but it is unclear if the suspects were hit, sheriff Doug Gillespie of the Las Vegas metro police department said at a news conference on Sunday afternoon.
The suspects then fled to the Walmart across the street, where they fatally shot a person inside the front door and exchanged gunfire with officers before killing themselves in an apparent suicide pact, police said. . .
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/09/couple-kill-two-las-vegas-policemen-bystander-and-themselves-in-gun-spree?CMP=ema_565
Yessiree, lets keep guns legal and available. You will notice that at least one policeman fired back. These were police, trained in the use of firearms, armed and ready, who nevertheless were unable to defend themselves. So much for an armed citizenry who must be armed in order to defend themselves from the bad guys.
Lois

And if everyone had guns, all the restaurant patrons would have pulled theirs out to fire back. The suspects would surely have been killed along with the two police officers, and since each patron would see all the others holding guns would, out of “self defense”, shoot at them. When the investigators got there, they’d probably find one or two critically wounded people along with the bodies of all the other customers. About the only good thing about this “everyone armed” concept is that we do need population control.
Occam

The latest information really shows the value of an armed public. When they walked into the Walmart carrying their weapons, a guy who had a concealed handgun pulled it out, probably following the NRA philosophy, and they shot and killed him before he even had a chance to fire his weapon. Boy, that armed public idea really works. :vampire:
Occam

The latest information really shows the value of an armed public. When they walked into the Walmart carrying their weapons, a guy who had a concealed handgun pulled it out, probably following the NRA philosophy, and they shot and killed him before he even had a chance to fire his weapon. Boy, that armed public idea really works. :vampire: Occam
Yes, statistics show you to be right. But statistics mean nothing to gun nuts. Lois
The latest information really shows the value of an armed public. When they walked into the Walmart carrying their weapons, a guy who had a concealed handgun pulled it out, probably following the NRA philosophy, and they shot and killed him before he even had a chance to fire his weapon. Boy, that armed public idea really works. :vampire: Occam
Yes, statistics show you to be right. But statistics mean nothing to gun nuts. Lois The legally armed citizen was shot by the male suspects female accomplice who snuck up unnoticed from behind him while the armed citizen confronted the male shooter...you think a lone police officer could have done better? And you ridicule a law abiding citizen who gave his life in defense of his fellow Americans in a desperate time of need? The problem isn't guns Lois. 8-/

The problem is guns, you enable you are responsible.
Note: I am a Viet Nam veteran and was an MP. The worse situation I was ever in was being caught in crossfire between a bunch of idiots “defending themselves” in a bar fight, It was worse than combat in the field.

The latest information really shows the value of an armed public. When they walked into the Walmart carrying their weapons, a guy who had a concealed handgun pulled it out, probably following the NRA philosophy, and they shot and killed him before he even had a chance to fire his weapon. Boy, that armed public idea really works. :vampire: Occam
Yes, statistics show you to be right. But statistics mean nothing to gun nuts. Lois The legally armed citizen was shot by the male suspects female accomplice who snuck up unnoticed from behind him while the armed citizen confronted the male shooter...you think a lone police officer could have done better? And you ridicule a law abiding citizen who gave his life in defense of his fellow Americans in a desperate time of need? The problem isn't guns Lois. 8-/ I don't think the citizen was being ridiculed. Instead, the claim that good citizens with guns are needed to stop bad people with guns, made by the shills for the gun manufacturers who currently run the NRA, was being disputed.
The latest information really shows the value of an armed public. When they walked into the Walmart carrying their weapons, a guy who had a concealed handgun pulled it out, probably following the NRA philosophy, and they shot and killed him before he even had a chance to fire his weapon. Boy, that armed public idea really works. :vampire: Occam
Yes, statistics show you to be right. But statistics mean nothing to gun nuts. Lois The legally armed citizen was shot by the male suspects female accomplice who snuck up unnoticed from behind him while the armed citizen confronted the male shooter...you think a lone police officer could have done better? And you ridicule a law abiding citizen who gave his life in defense of his fellow Americans in a desperate time of need? The problem isn't guns Lois. 8-/ You can stand there and say with a straight face that in the one supposedly civilized country that has the highest incidence of firearm deaths in the world! Something tells me an armed citizenry isn't working, no matter how much you and other NRA tyoes claim it is--unless by "working" you mean keeping the overpopulation problem at bay. In that sense I suppose it is "working," but at what price? Lois

One of the common defenses is, “I should be able to carry a gun to protect myself!” However, I really would like to hear cases in which this has been helpful, maybe they’re out there, but you don’t hear them. If you’re walking down a city street and someone comes up behind you and sticks a gun to your back and makes demands, is the criminal really going to allow you to retrieve your weapon to put up a fair fight for justice? Frankly, I find the argument delusional, as I often hear it from people who have never actually had to use a gun, yet they believe they would be able to exercise such mastery and finesse in an extremely stressful moment in which everything would be happening so fast and the criminal would not allow for them to fumble around for their own weapon. Again, it’s almost delusional.

Here’s an interesting case study of USA militarization.
Cops get military assault equipment and a bunch of RAMBO SWAT teams, that must be used,
what good is a loaded gun if you don’t shoot it
We send our boys (and girls nowadays) off to insane wars and expect them to come back honor citizens
after witnessing and committing untold atrocities against innocent people who were caught in the middle…
We have the mass media landscape loaded to the gill with violence the macho of big guns and exploding things.
We have a shell shocked half wacked out ex-GI, having a tough time coping, he smacks his wife, waves a gun around,
she leaves the house with her kids, call the police.
Then the nouveau police force swoops in loaded to the gills with guns and other weaponry,
along with massive amounts of testosterone and adrenaline pumping through their veins,
and way the f’ too much blind macho exuding from their flakjacked chests.
Let’s think a moment of human beings and their natural reactions. OK let’s just think about me and my reactions, if I make a mistake and someone points it out, I know I will react differently depending on circumstances. Come at me red faced and shoving me, calling me names and you’re going to find yourself confronted with a formidable monster in return -
we take the energy coming at us and turn it around.
If you approach me in a civil tone and we focus on my transgression and what it means, you’re likely to find a model of cooperation, self-examination, even contrition if called for.
So we got this freak’d out GI who thinks he’s a failure, who hates himself for hurting the people he loves the most,
a man who’s got demons haunting his mind thanks to the flag waving Cheney/Bush War for Profits against Iraq,
confronted by a local police force that looks more like a USA military action in Fallujah (also thanks to that war of adventure and profit),
than any sort of domestic intervention.

“Suspect’s plea to APD: Let me sleep”
http://www.abqjournal.com/458284/news/man-shot-after-being-flushed-from-home-by-apd-2.html
So this sorry sap, who’s also a firm believer in American’s 2nd Amendment (after all, every households needs it’s own armory to keep America strong)
plays out the roll assigned to him by this amp’ed-up circus the cops set up around his house and neighborhood.
Watching his home get destroyed (by who knows what all the cops shot through every window of the place) probably didn’t do his mental balance much good… ya think?

"During the six-hour standoff that began after Martin allegedly threatened his wife and children with a gun, the 50-year-old veteran with mental health issues sat in his bedroom and wrote his own obituary. He told a 911 operator that he hadn’t done anything wrong and told APD negotiators he knew police were going to kill him, according to recordings made that day."
Fried and hopeless what were the choices open to him, become another media monkey in a cage for the world to gawk and laugh at, or just put an end to it, besides he knows those snippers and TV cameras need a satisfying high point to end this on, it's what Hollywood has been shoveling into his head for his entire life. In a finale fitting of the nobility of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid he runs out guns a blazing at nothing in particular, knowing that he'll no longer feel any pain and the Albuquerque cops can chisel another notch into their belt. Suicide by invited murder. I remember way back when those Pigs in Washington revoked the 'assault weapons ban' thinking this is going to turn out very ugly, but who cares we live in america where the order of the day is Profits Über Alles!!! let the devil have tomorrow. And he will. Oh, and the Albuquerque cops reaction - explaining the new rules of engagement we are the law you'd better damned well jump when we say jump or we will crush you.
“Were (flash bangs) used appropriately? Yes," APD spokeswoman Janet Blair said. “The idea was to refocus his attention on the negotiations." "One of the volleys was recorded on camera was released to the Journal last week. At least 19 flash-bang or other non-lethal rounds were fired within a 90-second period, according to an on-body camera recording." "The Martin shooting was the second of four fatal shootings by Albuquerque police since the U.S. Department of Justice in April released a report finding the department had a pattern of violating people’s rights through excessive force. APD has shot 37 people since 2010, killing 27 of them."
The latest information really shows the value of an armed public. When they walked into the Walmart carrying their weapons, a guy who had a concealed handgun pulled it out, probably following the NRA philosophy, and they shot and killed him before he even had a chance to fire his weapon. Boy, that armed public idea really works. :vampire: Occam
Yes, statistics show you to be right. But statistics mean nothing to gun nuts. Lois The legally armed citizen was shot by the male suspects female accomplice who snuck up unnoticed from behind him while the armed citizen confronted the male shooter...you think a lone police officer could have done better? And you ridicule a law abiding citizen who gave his life in defense of his fellow Americans in a desperate time of need? The problem isn't guns Lois. 8-/ What is it, then? How many would be dead if there had been no gun in this guy's hand? The law abiding citizen didn't "give his life in defense of his fellow Americans.'" He acted recklessly because he thought a gun made him right and safe and he wound up dead in the process--which happens all to often in such situations. How did he know they were fellow Americans? Did he check their citizenship before he recklessly "came to their defense," and brought about his own death? He's a cardboard hero and will be forgotten by all but his loved ones in no time. Lois
One of the common defenses is, "I should be able to carry a gun to protect myself!" However, I really would like to hear cases in which this has been helpful, maybe they're out there, but you don't hear them. If you're walking down a city street and someone comes up behind you and sticks a gun to your back and makes demands, is the criminal really going to allow you to retrieve your weapon to put up a fair fight for justice? Frankly, I find the argument delusional, as I often hear it from people who have never actually had to use a gun, yet they believe they would be able to exercise such mastery and finesse in an extremely stressful moment in which everything would be happening so fast and the criminal would not allow for them to fumble around for their own weapon. Again, it's almost delusional.
It is delusional. These people watch too many Grade B movies. They apparently don't know the difference between real life and cheap fiction where the "good guy" always wins. Lois