Almighty Gawd cast His judgement on the Aussies

Sree, Seriously, I am an atheist. I am certain (CLOSE ENOUGH) that NOTHING supernatural exists. There is NO afterlife. You and I will be among the no longer existent. So your questions are non applicable.

@ Sree

When you are under anesthesia, what do you consciously experience? Absolutely nothing, total oblivion, right? Your subconscious brain will keep you alive but your conscious brain is not functional, until the anesthesia wears off.

What do they mean when using the term “vegetative state”? No conscious brain activity, right?

What is the difference between the oblivion of a general anethesia and the oblivion of the death of the brain (which also stops the subconscious brain activity)?

 

Write4U: What is the difference between the oblivion of a general anethesia and the oblivion of the death of the brain (which also stops the subconscious brain activity)?
I have never felt the effect of anesthesia; nor have I ever died. I am unable to answer your question from direct experience.

I don’t believe you have ever kicked the bucket either. Therefore, your baseless assertion, about brain death and consciousness is unscientific, speculative and stokes superstition. Not good.

I am unconvinced that life, as I am experiencing it, has anything to do with the physiology of the human brain. We should inquire into this further in the topic: Secularism and Death.

I have been under general anesthesia and I can tell you that there is nothing when your conscious brain is non-functional. Absolutely nothing. You cease to exist as a person and become just an object, no more than a vegetable or a piece of meat.

This is why I can confirm Anil Seth’s account of his operation and the uncanny experience that when you wake up you have no idea how long you have been unconscious. 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 years, 50 years, when your brain stops functioning there is nothing, nothing at all, for what might as well be eternity.

Sree: I am unconvinced that life, as I am experiencing it, has anything to do with the physiology of the human brain. We should inquire into this further in the topic: Secularism and Death.
When your brain dies there is nothing, not even blackness, just nothing. You cease to exist as a sentience. The seat of sentient existence lies within the brain, not in your big toe. There is nothing miraculous about that.

Your refusal to accept real accounts of temporary controlled total oblivion (anesthesia), in favor of some magical temporary storage of the soul which is released when your really die is just plain wishful thinking without any foundation in fact. No amount of conditioned belief system will alter this simple fact. It is you who is superstitious by trying to create a magical afterlife.

When you die, you cease to exist, except as a memory in the living brains of others. For you, no heaven, no hell, no purgatory, nothing, nothing at all. You won’t even have to deal with it… :slight_smile:

 

Write4U: I have been under general anesthesia and I can tell you that there is nothing when your conscious brain is non-functional. Absolutely nothing. You cease to exist as a person and become just an object, no more than a vegetable or a piece of meat.
This is why I can confirm Anil Seth’s account of his operation and the uncanny experience that when you wake up you have no idea how long you have been unconscious. 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 years, 50 years, when your brain stops functioning there is nothing, nothing at all, for what might as well be eternity.

Objection. You are speculating. Going unconscious, either induced (anesthesia, concussion, etc.) or naturally falling asleep, means just that: loss of awareness. Anil Seth was full of it. His Hindu cultural background is evident - he speaks with the spiritual authority of a guru instead of laying out cold facts like Richard Dawkins would. Anyone waking up from whatever state of unconsciousness would know how long he or she has been “out” by asking what time it is. There were occasions when I woke up after a night of partying and was shocked to find out that I slept 15 hours straight from 3 am to 6 pm. I was still groggy when I picked up the phone that woke me up.

By the way, eternity is not a scientific word. Like Anil Seth, there is still a lot of religion in you.

Not everyone has problems and need to optimize and economize.
You missed the point entirely. In no way was I suggesting getting a hybrid to "optimize and economize". Getting a hybrid wasn't so you could "optimize", it was so that you could dump less crap into the air.

I’m sorry, but if you don’t think we need to change our lifestyles to prevent global climate change you’re an idiot. Do you really believe that we can just keep dumping crap into the land, oceans and air as much as we want and there will never be consequences? Do you really believe that changing the chemical makeup of the air will not cause any changes at all ever?

I once had a Republican representative tell me that the Earth has “ways” of taking care of that. He was unclear on what those “ways” were. But let’s say that’s true. It actually is kind of true. The Earth has “ways” of removing CO2 from the air. But our ecosystem is a balance. That’s just how nature works. The system reaches a balance and all life on Earth adapts to fit that balance. Now you start adding CO2 to the air. Then what? The “ways” the Earth has of removing it from the air, it’s not a maid service the Earth calls in once a week. It’s chemical processes that have reached that balance over the life of the Earth. If you change the balance one way the Earth isn’t going to magically “know” to start removing more CO2 from the air. Do you really think the more CO2 you dump into the air, the more the Earth’s ecosystem will remove from the air? How does that work? By what process? How does the Earth “know” to add more of the processes which remove CO2 from the air? Is there a dial the Earth turns up a little to just take care of it for us? A lever the Earth pushes forward a little? Of course not. Those processes chug away at the same rate they always did until something makes them speed up.

So how is CO2 removed from the air naturally? Photosynthesis is one way. However, that method doesn’t really do much. Rain forests are essentially carbon neutral. All the CO2 they remove from the air is added back into the air as the plant matter decays. One of the big ways carbon is “sequestered” into the Earth is by rain. It is absorbed by the water where it lands on the Earth and is sequestered in the soil. So what does that mean for the “ways” the Earth has of cleaning the CO2 out of the air? Big surprise, it means more frequent and powerful storms. More rain, more often. So that “ways” the the Earth has to remove the excess CO2 we are dumping into the air IS climate change! But what’s good for the Earth isn’t necessarily good for the life currently living on it.

I have been under general anesthesia and I can tell you that there is nothing when your conscious brain is non-functional. Absolutely nothing. You cease to exist as a person and become just an object, no more than a vegetable or a piece of meat.
My friends once talked me into doing some thing where I breathed really hard and then blocked of the veins in my neck or something and I passed out for about 10 seconds. That was an interesting experience which kind of gives me a little insight into this as my brain essentially "rebooted". It didn't come back online all at once. The first thing that happened was that I had a vague consciousness. No real thought. Next, I became self aware. I realized that I existed. Then I started to become aware of my surroundings and realized I was convulsing, then almost immediately remembered the circumstances and realized that people were watching me convulse, so I willed that to stop. Finally I gained control of the rest of my senses, including sight. My first question was how long it had been. I thought it must have been hours that had passed. It was about 10 seconds. Unfortunately being an atheist I have no soul, so when my brain wasn't working I didn't exist.

Objection noted and you are still evading established science. Anil Seth being of Indian ancestry has nothing to do with his scientific knowledge. Is your Christian knowledge of any consequence to understanding the mind? Please don’t go there, it’s hypocritical.

How can I be speculating when I speak from personal experience and that subjective experience is confirmed by scientific observation of tens of thousands of real life clinical examples. What are your qualifications to judge and cast veiled ad hominem at a recognized experts in the field of neuroscience?

Anil Seth

Seth went to school at King Alfred's Academy in Wantage. He has degrees in Natural Sciences (BA/MA, Cambridge, 1994), Knowledge-Based Systems (M.Sc., Sussex, 1996) and Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence (D.Phil./Ph.D., Sussex, 2001). He was a Postdoctoral and Associate Fellow at The Neurosciences Institute in San Diego, California (2001-2006).

Career
Seth is Co-Director (with Prof. Hugo Critchley) of the Sackler Centre for Consciousness Science[2] and Editor-in-Chief of Neuroscience of Consciousness.[3] He was Conference Chair of the 16th Meeting of the Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness and continuing member ‘at large’[4] and is on the steering group and advisory board of the Human Mind Project.[5] He was president of the Psychology Section of the British Science Association in 2017.


If you want a more esoteric perspective, watch the link to Stuart Hameroff’s lecture who, in concert with Roger Penrose have developed a hypothesis named ORCH OR (orchestrated objective reduction) a result orchestrated by the billions of microtubules in the neural network of the brain, which is perfectly compatible with Seth’s generalized model (for public consumpton).

And if you want to go to a purely mathematical model Max Tegmark’s “consciousness is a mathematical neural pattern” which also supports Seth’s generalized model and proposes a computational model where the “emergent whole” is greater than the sum of its parts (microtubules).

I have posted Youtube links to lectures of all three unrelated scientists, and they all tend to support each others general conclusions.

It is you who is proposing a wholly specious model of an external spiritual intelligent form of being, a soul which somehow survives the catastrophic failure of brain function to aimlessly float around in space.

Sree: By the way, eternity is not a scientific word. Like Anil Seth, there is still a lot of religion in you.
You don't get to cite science, you reject science. And you have given absolutely no proof of Anil Seth being in any way religious as it pertains to consciousness. In fact his assertion that after death there is nothing at all is contrary to all religious beliefs and is a purely secular statement.

I have been atheist since birth, my parents were atheist and my grandparents were atheist. No one in my family has ever been corrupted by religious indoctrination.

You’re getting close to trolling, IMO.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/firefighting-plane-crashes-in-australia-killing-3-americans

Now 3 Americans have died due to the sins of the coal worshipping Aussies.