My research of some Musk BS led to DARPA, led to this. The idea that a machine could understand that we are minds, thinking, acting on complex feelings and history. Not sure I want that, but not thinking I can stop it
But living things are machines, biological machines. But what is the difference between a biological and a non-biological machine that is designed to use cognition instead of chance to acquire energy for sustaining motion.
Why can trees grow to a 1000 years? This is by chance that a seed falls in a location rich with nutrients and does not need to move to convert available nutrients for its āgrowthā energy.
OTOH, the smallest creatures like humming birds have need for constant energy to sustain their aeronautic lifestyle.
Ruby-throated Hummingbirds have the fastest metabolic rate of any animal, approximately 100 times faster than that of an elephant123. They maintain these rates by consuming about their weight in nectar daily2.
I hope you are not being rhetorical. Just one difference of many, from The Guardian
The processing of neural codes is generally seen as a series of linear steps ā like a line of dominoes falling one after another. The brain, however, consists of highly complex neural networks that are interconnected, and which are linked to the outside world to effect action. Focusing on sets of sensory and processing neurons without linking these networks to the behaviour of the animal misses the point of all that processing.
There is nothing in that statement that cannot be replicated artificially.
In non-biological physics, cognition of a difference equation resulting in the release of action potentials is not much different than experience of pain in biological systems.
In an electrical network, when a breaker overheats it trips the breaker and shuts the system down. This is very nuch aking to a blow to a personās head and the resulting unconsciousness (shutting down the system).
The difference is experiential awareness. I see no reason why that experience cannot be copied in artificial systems. It would be different but resulting in the same response.
Then why has no one been able to do it?
Evolution takes time. The human brain is a product of 4.5 billion years of evolution from original abiogenesis. We have been at AI how long?
About 100 years if we use Turing as the first concept of sophisticated information processing.
It takes a human child some 20 years of study to reach full mental potential. Lets train AI for 20 years to get a sense of where we are with AI.
AI has now claimed world championship in checkers, chess, and Go. and we are just now beginning to pay attention to sensory acuity of AI.
It begins with motility.
as compared to say a growing baby.
So not science. I thought you said you knew this was possible. Now youāre saying we might know it in 20 years. Not science
No. the 20 years refers to human learning. An AI can learn 20 years worth in a few hours.
I am talking about human 4 billion years of evolution from an unconscious organism to a conscious self-aware organism.
When AI becomes aware of itself and acquires ability to accept transfer of human personality, perhaps we can become immortal and explore the universe.
Both of those are currently science fiction.
Everything we haved today was once science fiction.
Thatās the same as saying they once laughed at the guy who first thought of plate tectonics. He was later proven right but a million others were laughed at and are still wrong.
Yes, but they were not scientists.
Neither are you. You need actual evidence before you can say something will happen. Look for it and you will find the opposite. The experts in the field say they didnāt know if itās possible.
We have been to the moon. Fish can maintain a cryo state. Bears hybernate.
Trees can live thousands of years.
There is plenty evidence for potential ability to travel in space. It takes science to
make that happen. Like all evolutionary processes, it takes time.
Now you are evading your original claim. You said
I see no reason why that experience cannot be copied in artificial systems.
And you have provided no evidence for that. That is the mission of CFI, to call out pseudoscience.
AND I JUST NOTICE THIS QUOTE CAME FROM ANOTHER THREAD. IāLL FIX THAT, and probably then close that thread.
Yes I have, perhaps you havenāt made the connection. I see microtubules as a potential bridge between biological and artificial intelligence.
ORCH OR functions at quantum level, below the distinction between the two states of matter.
āpotentialā. I donāt understand what it is you donāt understand. Everything you have said since the first claim is about something that could be or might be.
Note this article is six years old. Try to find something that has moved beyond this.
Will Machines Ever Become Conscious? | Scientific American
And you can tell me why this could never be? If it has the potential, it is just a matter of time. Every science fiction story ever told will be reality someday.
Unless we go extinct, of courseā¦ 
Mostly, Iām just sad now, at the hopelessness of this conversation. Understanding what science is, is to me, the most important goal of humanity right now. And you know science, butā¦
I never said it could never be.
Read that again.
I never said it could never be, I said itās not possible to know that it will be with such certainty. Science is predictive. Tracking when science predicted something that then was proven (which only means we increased our understanding of the probability of it being true) is part of how you track which types of science, which methods, and which scientists are likely to continue to predict with accuracy. But past success of predictions does not indicate all scientific predictions will eventually be proven.
That word āpotentialā, I do not think you know what it means.
That is so far off track. I canāt tell where that came from.
99% of all species that ever existed have gone extinct. That includes at least 8 human species. We are in the 6th mass extinction event now.
Why do animals and plants become endangered? | U.S. Geological Survey
1 Like
I believe you may not understand the full depth of that term.
Potential = That which may become reality.
While not all potential becomes reality, all reality is, was, and will be preceeded by potential.
IOW. the inherent presence of an as yet unrealized ability or property.
David Bohm called it the Implicate order.
A mountain lake has the potential for gravitational energy generation.