A culling as a solution

General Discussion
101
It's for my own sanity
Maybe if you quit scrambling words like Humpty Dumpty you'd start moving in that direction.
102
It's for my own sanity
Maybe if you quit scrambling words like Humpty Dumpty you'd start moving in that direction. I'm trying to here, this isn't easy to overcome
103

I mean the responsibly for so much extinction of life is a big hurdle to overcome.

104
I mean the responsibly for so much extinction of life is a big hurdle to overcome.
Understanding what you are responsible for and what to do about it are big hurdles. Somebody told you that you are responsible for all this extinction, and you believed them. You might want to back up and reconsider that. I've already told you how your "what to do" is flawed.
105
I mean the responsibly for so much extinction of life is a big hurdle to overcome.
I haven't read this long thread, but I know what you're talking about. I've seen numerous documentaries, whose sources I will trust as scientific, that have talked about the levels of extinction that are occuring for other species. Some of it is Global Climate change, and some more directly by human actions. I can't quite recall, but I think deforestation is a big cause. SO...you're point, not really put well, is what are we gonna do about it? Population size is a factor, and I'm sure some have suggested "culling" as you mention. And that IS different from genocide. For example, someone might suggest culling out people who live a subsistence-level life. Some might suggest the opposite, cull out those who consume the most. I can see religious folks considering this kind of thing, because they tend to think in terms of End Justifies The Means. But humanists, and sane reasonable people in general, would never consider culling as a solution. More likely would be to determine what exactly is causing the extinctions, through science, and creating alternatives. But I believe alot of that is underway anyways.
106
I mean the responsibly for so much extinction of life is a big hurdle to overcome.
I haven't read this long thread, but I know what you're talking about. I've seen numerous documentaries, whose sources I will trust as scientific, that have talked about the levels of extinction that are occuring for other species. Some of it is Global Climate change, and some more directly by human actions. I can't quite recall, but I think deforestation is a big cause. SO...you're point, not really put well, is what are we gonna do about it? Population size is a factor, and I'm sure some have suggested "culling" as you mention. And that IS different from genocide. For example, someone might suggest culling out people who live a subsistence-level life. Some might suggest the opposite, cull out those who consume the most. I can see religious folks considering this kind of thing, because they tend to think in terms of End Justifies The Means. But humanists, and sane reasonable people in general, would never consider culling as a solution. More likely would be to determine what exactly is causing the extinctions, through science, and creating alternatives. But I believe alot of that is underway anyways. Pretty much nailed it there. Reading the ups and downs of this thread couldn't improve on that.
107
I mean the responsibly for so much extinction of life is a big hurdle to overcome.
Understanding what you are responsible for and what to do about it are big hurdles. Somebody told you that you are responsible for all this extinction, and you believed them. You might want to back up and reconsider that. I've already told you how your "what to do" is flawed. Maybe not me, but doesn't my continued life contribute to that? Are humans selfish for not thinking about the damage their lives are causing to everything?
108

Yes, humans are selfish.

109
I mean the responsibly for so much extinction of life is a big hurdle to overcome.
Understanding what you are responsible for and what to do about it are big hurdles. Somebody told you that you are responsible for all this extinction, and you believed them. You might want to back up and reconsider that. I've already told you how your "what to do" is flawed. Maybe not me, but doesn't my continued life contribute to that? Are humans selfish for not thinking about the damage their lives are causing to everything? Yes, you would be selfish if didn't think about the consequences of your actions. But you have been doing that for 7 pages. It's selfish to give up. Man up. Get involved. Every generation gets handed a problem to solve. Lucky you weren't handed a gun and told to defend democracy.
110

Sorry I meant like isn’t it selfish to value your life over that of other life forms and the planet.
Another thing. People like to liken the earth as an organism with humans as the disease and themselves as the cure. That’s what bugs me

111
Sorry I meant like isn't it selfish to value your life over that of other life forms and the planet. Another thing. People like to liken the earth as an organism with humans as the disease and themselves as the cure. That's what bugs me
I don't see how that definition of selfishness really changes anything. It's just a way of saying you want to survive. There are exceptions, like a parent who would save their child rather than themselves, or soldiers sacrificing themselves. And people like to do a lot of things. It doesn't make them right. The earth has shown no signs of being an organism. It's an analogy at best. You have given me no reason to care about what bugs you.
112

Titano,
Please don’t misunderstand, I cry when I see a baby seal clubbed to death, or an elephant falling at the hands of a greedy poacher. As hominids we have the capacity for grief and we recognize it when we see a grievous thing.
Koko, our Gorilla cousin grieved for days when her Manx kitten, which she personally had named “all ball”, escaped the compound and was run down by a car on the street.
But occasionally we can also see noble Human compassion in scenes as this.
what a wonderful world - toots thielemans & kenny werner - YouTube]

113
Sorry I meant like isn't it selfish to value your life over that of other life forms and the planet. Another thing. People like to liken the earth as an organism with humans as the disease and themselves as the cure. That's what bugs me
I don't see how that definition of selfishness really changes anything. It's just a way of saying you want to survive. There are exceptions, like a parent who would save their child rather than themselves, or soldiers sacrificing themselves. And people like to do a lot of things. It doesn't make them right. The earth has shown no signs of being an organism. It's an analogy at best. You have given me no reason to care about what bugs you. Because it's wondering if our continued existences is rally worth everything else around us going downward. That maybe things would be better without us. That there is nothing that really justifies us being around at the expense of everything else. That they might be right in seeing humans as a disease and that our fear and horror at a cull is just being afraid to do what is necessary.
114
Titano, Please don't misunderstand, I cry when I see a baby seal clubbed to death, or an elephant falling at the hands of a greedy poacher. As hominids we have the capacity for grief and we recognize it when we see a grievous thing. Koko, our Gorilla cousin grieved for days when her Manx kitten, which she personally had named "all ball", escaped the compound and was run down by a car on the street. But occasionally we can also see noble Human compassion in scenes as this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zfgFfC5kOs]
But how do you justify an existence that just takes and that the good it does is just damage control from causing the problem to begin with?
115
Titano, Please don't misunderstand, I cry when I see a baby seal clubbed to death, or an elephant falling at the hands of a greedy poacher. As hominids we have the capacity for grief and we recognize it when we see a grievous thing. Koko, our Gorilla cousin grieved for days when her Manx kitten, which she personally had named "all ball", escaped the compound and was run down by a car on the street. But occasionally we can also see noble Human compassion in scenes as this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zfgFfC5kOs]
But how do you justify an existence that just takes and that the good it does is just damage control from causing the problem to begin with? It's almost inevitable. Our lifestyle is incompatible with the natural balances which were established over billions of years. Our superior brain is a double edged sword, we can disrupt nature and create imbalances in the natural evolution of the earth's assets. It behooves us to project possible unwanted side effects of our culture and waste. But there are those pesky things called *greed*, *gluttony*, *vanity*, all products of the same brain that can produce magnificent artifacts and acts of compassion and sacrifice.
116
But how do you justify an existence that just takes and that the good it does is just damage control from causing the problem to begin with?
You aren't really asking a questions. You are making statements.]
117
But how do you justify an existence that just takes and that the good it does is just damage control from causing the problem to begin with?
You aren't really asking a questions. You are making statements.] How exactly am I begging the question.
118
Titano, Please don't misunderstand, I cry when I see a baby seal clubbed to death, or an elephant falling at the hands of a greedy poacher. As hominids we have the capacity for grief and we recognize it when we see a grievous thing. Koko, our Gorilla cousin grieved for days when her Manx kitten, which she personally had named "all ball", escaped the compound and was run down by a car on the street. But occasionally we can also see noble Human compassion in scenes as this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zfgFfC5kOs]
But how do you justify an existence that just takes and that the good it does is just damage control from causing the problem to begin with? It's almost inevitable. Our lifestyle is incompatible with the natural balances which were established over billions of years. Our superior brain is a double edged sword, we can disrupt nature and create imbalances in the natural evolution of the earth's assets. It behooves us to project possible unwanted side effects of our culture and waste. But there are those pesky things called *greed*, *gluttony*, *vanity*, all products of the same brain that can produce magnificent artifacts and acts of compassion and sacrifice. So isn't that more reason for humans to go extinct?
119
Titano, Please don't misunderstand, I cry when I see a baby seal clubbed to death, or an elephant falling at the hands of a greedy poacher. As hominids we have the capacity for grief and we recognize it when we see a grievous thing. Koko, our Gorilla cousin grieved for days when her Manx kitten, which she personally had named "all ball", escaped the compound and was run down by a car on the street. But occasionally we can also see noble Human compassion in scenes as this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zfgFfC5kOs]
But how do you justify an existence that just takes and that the good it does is just damage control from causing the problem to begin with? It's almost inevitable. Our lifestyle is incompatible with the natural balances which were established over billions of years. Our superior brain is a double edged sword, we can disrupt nature and create imbalances in the natural evolution of the earth's assets. It behooves us to project possible unwanted side effects of our culture and waste. But there are those pesky things called *greed*, *gluttony*, *vanity*, all products of the same brain that can produce magnificent artifacts and acts of compassion and sacrifice. So isn't that more reason for humans to go extinct? Or we become wiser after seeing the results of our wanton and inconsiderate behavior. But one thing is sure, if we continue on this path the earth's ecosystem will change drastically and many humans will die along with many other species. IMO, natural selection will sort it all out, one way or another. Don't forget 90 % of all species that ever existed have gone extinct, even before man came along. We may influence the dynamics but where there is life for something, there usually is death for another thing. Those are the rules of evolution of the best suited to survive. But to me "culling" our own species is unthinkable. Think of it, if we now feel bad that our impact will result in the death of other species, how would you feel if humans are selected to be culled and who would decide who shall live or die?
120

I’m just trying to defend the case for not going through with it. But those who advocate it claim that it takes courage to do what’s necessary.
But it’s confusing for me. The point of all life is to survive. No other organism kills itself for the surivival of its environment. They do whatever it takes to surivive and make sure their genes or species lives. Bees sacrifice themselves for the hive. An octopus will remain with its eggs until they hatch. All creatures prime goal is surivival, of themselves and their young. So it boggles me that an organism would want to kill itself to save its environment. But here are people advocating it like its a viable choice and try to justify it as correct, so I feel lost. Am I cowardly and selfish for not wanting to bring about human extinction for the planet?