Why Did You Choose Atheism?

@ lausten. Your second paragraph make me think of Donald Hoffman and his fans.

:v: write4U, regarding not believing in Intelligent Design - this past year my approach to that has changed a little. On the one hand of course I don’t believe in intelligent design - yet on the other the more we learn the more amazing life is, and I feel like there’s a real internal human insistence that something so complex, needs an organizing conductor or something.

If it’s a natural impulse and a poet security blanket, rather than an excuse to disbelieve what science is teaching us, it seems benign. Brings us back to recognizing the Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide. It’s like some scientists who still like going to mass because it feels good, yet does rigorous science for their day job. Don’t make sense to me, but who am I to judge.

[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:141, topic:8245”]

yet on the other the more we learn the more amazing life is, and I feel like there’s a real internal human insistence that something so complex, needs an organizing conductor or something.

I know exactly what you mean. Humans, as well as the entire universe, are examples of a powerful ordering agency. That is an undeniable fact and the cause for wild speculations.

And apart from the concept of a motivated intelligence (ID), which brings a ton of unexplainable garbage with it, there is only one other possible “discipline” that is powerful enough to pass the intelligence test and that is the concept of Mathematics .

IMO, “mathematics” is an abstract quasi-intelligent offspring of Universal Logic. The way things work is based on the fact that all things have a natural value and that these values can only interact in accordance with their inherent value potentials.

The reason I find this so compelling is that everything animate and inanimate, seems to follow a form of mathematical guiding principle alone or when interacting.

All animals use mathematics at some level and form of behavioral action, from the lowly paramecium to the slime-mold to Einstein.

Human science has even been able to symbolically codify most of universal mathematics and it “WORKS”!
To turn a phrase, “the reasonable effectiveness of mathematics” … :thinking: )

I firmly believe that Tegmark is on the right path and that when we get down to the nitty gritty, it’s all about “values” interacting via logical “mathematical” functions.

Function (mathematics)

INPUT (value) → FUNCTION (mathematical ordering) → OUTPUT (value).

   Look at the elegance of this function : *x* ↦ *f* (*x*)  (and derivatives)

# Function composition

The composition of functions is a special case of the composition of relations, sometimes also denoted by {\displaystyle \circ }\circ .[1] As a result, all properties of composition of relations are true of composition of functions,[2] though the composition of functions has some additional properties.

Composition of functions is different from multiplication of functions, and has quite different properties;[3] in particular, composition of functions is not commutative.

See also:

Cobweb plot – a graphical technique for functional composition
Combinatory logic
Composition ring, a formal axiomatization of the composition operation
Flow (mathematics)
Function composition (computer science)
Function of random variable, distribution of a function of a random variable
Functional decomposition
Functional square root
Higher-order function
Infinite compositions of analytic functions
Iterated function
Lambda calculus

I can’t “make you think” anything. A little sarcasm there.

Here’s a quote from Braiding Sweetgrass, which I’ve mentioned before. Deserves it’s own thread. It’s a short chapter about her experience trying to teach biology to some NC Christian college students. She feels like she failed, then heard them singing a hymn while on a lesson in a forest and that reminded of her own tradition of Skywoman and her love of nature that comes through her scientific understanding.

“The land is the real teacher. All we need as students is mindfulness. Paying attention is a form of reciprocity with the living world, receiving gifts with open eyes and open heart. My job was just to lead them into the presence and ready them to hear.”

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:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

My bad,

“got me to thinking”

Inspired me to think’n

That I like.
Thanks for introducing her over here. I did look at the site earlier, it’s pretty nice, I’d probably benefit from spending more time there, but life gets in the way.

Very nice and completely true. Thankyou

Hope you don’t me tossing in different ending:

Where does Universal law allow you make amends for your mistakes by asking forgiveness and saying a few prayers?
Time moves ever forward, and every act is final (along with it’s cascading consequences), today is the sum total of all your yesterdays.

All you do tomorrow is built upon what is there right now.

This is the moment that matters, today, right now, focus on it, do it best you can, and the tomorrows will take care of themselves.

========================================

I tip my hat to write4u. Side note further ramblings,
last night may have been my final night with monitor for li’l G and those midnight visits to my alter of humanity and deep time. Tonight I’ve promised myself a full night sleep. I’m in a writing mood.

Past couple nights have been sweet, contented little baby, greeting me with smile I can’t see in the dark room, but I can feel in the way he reacts when I pick him up and cuddles into me and then our quiet ‘dance’ begins. When all is well, into the recliner, show him his bottle and his hands grasp and control the show, he’s all business until he’s done, and then on to playing with the bottle. Then we hang as I try work a burp or two out of his little body. With various illnesses, including COVID bouncing around the home, you can imagine the spectrum of burping,… to yyyy was impressive. Gotten skilled at anticipating and getting his body and onesie, out of trajectory’s way and to heck with the carpet.

It was a well timed visit given all that, as I was able to split the load, taking Li’l G’s monitor most nights, while parents took Li’l B, thus giving them a shot at some sleep.

Science be blessed, thanks to all parties having had vaccinations no crisis, for me it never rose above nasty crud and sweating out a low grade fever.

Back to the dance, these past two nights, during his first after midnight awakings, he drank modestly and was more sleeping than awake. So peaceful, tired and sleeping and I’m not going to mess up that for the diaper, gently down I slide him, with weeks of practice, my hands do some elegant maneuvering, guiding him through this ever so subtle transition from a warm body to firm mattress. Success as he settles back into a deep sleep.
By now I know better than to leave, I settling into the recliner, toss the blanket over me and hang out. Calculating and making odds in my mind, is he really down? A few minutes passed, then came the stirring, then the babbling, which is him learning to use his tongue and mouth, with sounds very akin to “iluvu” and “dad” (and why not he hears them all the time) and other sweet baby vocalizations - basically telling me ‘dude, we ain’t done yet’.

“Okay little fella”, he’s happy to be scooped up again and taken to his changing table. I’ve never understood the horror stories about changing. I’ve never met a kid that likes being in wet and or shitty diapers, older they get more embarrassed, which leads to potty training, no biggie. In any event, all my kids like getting clean, airing out a while, fresh diapers. Still diaper is inside the sleeper and this little guy with more teeth straining to come in, drools copiously, wet sleeper is no fun. Once in a while soaking himself. Talk about dance, changing out those is a real dance with cooperation along with anticipation, very important.

Then up into my arms, and then, that incomparable folding in and cuddling the way sleepy babies do. Another dance, very attentive to baby’s breathing, when thing seems right, ease him into horizontal position, stop swaying, then the easy transition onto the bed, helping position him, reassuring the once again awakening little one, it’s okay time to sleep.

That’s perhaps the most incredible moment, hanging there easing him back to sleep, watching it happen and then he’s off, nothing to do but wonder at the whole thing, not just this little guy, but the entire incomprehensible pageant of predecessors, that it took to create this little one.
Last night I noticed my posture, knelt over the nice wide side rail of this crib, like people do at the alter taking their holy sacrament, when it occurred to me that I was in actually at my own alter, the ‘Alter of Humanity’ Beholding this unique little creature, who also representing all of humanity.

This time I don’t hang around near as long, I know he’s down for the count, so off to bed I go, with monitor in hand. That’s been past couple nights, it’s not always so picture pretty.

Early days of this week, he was a hurting little unit yet again, after improving from a previous cold. There were a couple long painful crying sessions, one of those inconsolable, nothing works, and you simply need to be there with him riding it out until he knocks himself out. And so it was, fortunately only happen twice was really ugly, that is long. The feeling of helplessness drills into one. Only thing to do is stay as peaceful and soothing as possible, feel his pain and simply endure, the clock never stops ticking.

Thanks be both these young ones are among the fortunate, the healthy, the one’s who’s bodies are competently taking care of the show. While the child is resting, the body is readying him for the onslaught of another day.

Isn’t it awesome to be personally involved in the awakening of that pristine mindscape?

I remember clearly watching my daughter discover her hands and fingers and learning to use these awesome tools that allowed her to hold bottles and manipulate other stuff.

Imagine, to a baby every day is filled with Eureka moments.

You realize you are actually writing a diary of this shared experience. Someday your child may read what you wrote here and chide you for being so publicly emotional … :blush: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Yeah, no one knows what to do with my writings, that’s okay, I’m past worrying about it.
When their someday comes, I’ll be so far in their past, they’ll be off into a world that’s left me far behind. We have a few years, then they’ll probably outgrow me anyways. Remember I have no faith in tomorrow, that’s why I live in right now, tomorrow seems to work itself out.

. This is an adventure and most thinkers are too full of themselves, so I’ll continue working it on own, doing what I can with what I have.

**For instance, how about that concept of visualizing the flow of Deep Time and recognizing that “consciousness” is actually more like a bow wave racing through time, upon this planet Earth, the result is Evolution
Consciousness as the product of Earth’s Evolution.
That’s real deep, also rock solid.

Plus if we’re talking about our grand human brain, that also ties right into that curled up little child. practice, practice, practice. ;-)**

Although, yes, I’ve been pretty ambivalent about it, on the one hand, sort of an invasion of privacy, on the other, something that totally ties into some of the philosophical stuff I continue grappling with. I’ve trashed plenty of paragraphs along the way to the one’s I’ve posted.

Still, there are those moments while the experience is still echoing within, and something really wants to try capturing the moment. Before life rushes on, for instance, as I return home, to wife and dog and another life comes rushing at me.

I’ll bet you made a great dad, you get it, all it takes is attentive caregivers, appreciating the infant, the baby, is a person with much to share. Being dad was great, being Napa is on a whole different level, specially for a manic thinker like me.

What I’ll be left with is knowing that while I was there good connections were made within their little growing bodies and minds, and everything that follows, is built upon that framework, (it’s an organic thing), and that’s what matters.

Why Atheism? (I’m more agnostic than atheist - I don’t deny the possibility …but, really?)

Because of ridiculous stuff like this:

A Catholic priest has resigned after a church investigation found he performed invalid baptisms throughout most of his more than 20-year career …
Father Andres Arango, who performed thousands of baptisms, would say, “We baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” But Olmsted explained the words “We baptize” should have been “I baptize” instead.
Link

So now, according to “Religion”, thousands of people are not baptized and will burn in hell, or are burning in hell if they have already died, because of one misspoken word.

Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 2020 affirmed that when a baptism is conferred with the formula “We baptize …” it is invalid and people need to be baptized again.

Nah, they will end up in purgatory first, then heaven.

More than likely they will end up in the ground as food for the worms, which is a good thing. We don’t want all the human spirits to become sequestered in heaven, just like oil and coal being sequestered in the earth, do we?

Would it not be nice to have a rosebush grow on your grave, fed by the composted molecules of your body. That’s almost like Buddhist reincarnation.

Why atheism ?

The path was in 4 steps.

  1. Religious people and priests vaccinated me against christian religion, with their hypocrisy.

History was also a great teacher. In fact, religions are one of the main causes of murder, cruelty and so.

  1. In fact, the christian god is rationally unbelievable. Very young, the rituals seems empty to me.

  2. All religions are as true as each other, there is not reason to give priority to one above the others.

  3. No proof of god’s existence and no need for one.

My sister, who is a believer, takes comfort from the idea that there is a father figure who watches, protects and punish.

I have no need for such a figure.

Being an atheist does not mean that i am not an agnostic about the immaterial world.

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Consider that the Universe might be a logical construct where physics happens in accordance with a mathematical guiding equation. It would look intelligent, but it is only a mathematically deterministic quasi-intelligent process.

One of my favorite NOVA productions is “The Great Math Mystery”