Extinction!
The Holocene extinction , otherwise referred to as the sixth mass extinction or Anthropocene extinction, is an ongoing extinction event of species during the present Holocene epoch (with the more recent time sometimes called Anthropocene) as a result of human activity.
Holocene extinction - Wikipedia
That’s where we are heading. If we can reverse course is the real question.
Folds within folds!
That sounds pretty, but think of what you are saying.
God can be found in “no mind”? As atheist I can agree with that concept.
An ant has no mind. It must be closer to God than us mindful humans… 
Yes, Universal Laws which are based on Logic and Mathematical functions.
Evolution via Natural Selection is a logical mathematical process.
The state of no mind. An’nHaqq, have you (or anyone else here) ever experienced this state of “no mind”, or known anyone who has?
Yep. When I was playing music, I would lose myself completely in the experience of harmonic soundwaves, without any other thoughts of environment or people.
People would come to me after a set and ask, when you play where do you go? The only way I could explain it is; “I go into the music”.
Experiencing a state of “no mind” is impossible. You would be unconscious. It is possible to achieve a state of total immersion into a single experience, but without the mind there is nothing, nothing at all!
Well, perhaps a vegetative state where homeostasis and symbiotic bacteria are the only things keeping your body alive.
I don’t feel that qualifies.
Though I’m not a musician I am a dancer who knows what it’s like to meld into the music and the band, (since musicians natural reaction to someone truly immersed in their music, is to outdo themselves, creating a fantastical interplay of crescendos and after glows).
What I feel at those moments isn’t “no mind” but an awareness of the purest form of religion I can imagine and with the music flowing through me.
Seems closer to rapture, than “no mind.”
I was thinking more along the lines of the silent meditation and striving to silence the mind.
[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:126, topic:7931”]
Seems closer to rapture, than “no mind.”
I was thinking more along the lines of the silent meditation and striving to silence the mind.
Yes , but that is a modification of the original statement of having “no mind”.
I already explained that “no mind” is equivalent to unconsciousness and unable to receive any form of communication. To my knowledge, no one under anesthesia has ever talked to god while they were amputating his leg.
OTOH becoming immersed and attuned to sound waves is connecting with a universal force. It was Pythagoras who first assigned fundamental importance to the wave function,
Pythagoreans elaborated on a theory of numbers, the exact meaning of which is still debated among scholars. Another belief attributed to Pythagoras was that of the “harmony of the spheres.” Thus the planets and stars moved according to mathematical equations, which corresponded to musical notes and thus produced a symphony.
“To the symphony of life no one has the score”
" The music or harmony of the spheres. Pythagoras, having ascertained that the pitch of notes depends on the rapidity of vibrations, and also that the planets move at different rates of motion, concluded that the sounds made by their motion must vary according to their different rates of motion. As all things in nature are harmoniously made, the different sounds must harmonize, and the combination he called the “harmony of the spheres.” Kepler has a treatise on the subject.[[1]]
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/musicappreciation_with_theory/chapter/pythagoras/#
The God substance is the intentional ground of infinite and eternal, natural, and transcendent being that has to exist IF nature can not ground itself. It is dually problematic in that it is infinitely more complex than nature whilst explaining nothing more, and it creates as if it didn’t create. However the claim of it in Jesus - an act of excession - our Earth local incarnation of it - is so outrageous, it causes me open mouthed pause. Like the guy at the end of Quiet Earth. The first seven consensual letters of Paul as proof of a thriving almost immediate (non-coercive) communist Church requires some cultural colloquially evolutionary explanation. As does the remarkable humanism, even late dated from the Exile, in and despite the horrors of the Old Testament.
Lordie, it just makes my head spin. To me, all I see is self adulation on steroids with a hint of shrooms.
Earth and nature are plenty grounded and got here without our petty human conceits about God.
We created that stuff ourselves as filler to hide our ignorance.
[quote=“martin-peter-clarke, post:128, topic:7931”]… intentional ground…
[/quote]
Yep, man-made and sliced and diced in many bits and pieces.
Then rearranged all over again.
I fail to see what’s self-adulatory, conceited about it. What we were doing from three and a half to two and a half thousand years ago was nothing to do with hiding ignorance. What was done five hundred years later wasn’t either. We weren’t aware of our ignorance. We’re not now really are we?
Sliced and diced in what many bits and pieces? Rearranged how?
[quote=“martin-peter-clarke, post:133, topic:7931”]
Sliced and diced in what many bits and pieces? Rearranged how?
Rearranged into new molecular patterns. All birth, growth, and death involves rearrangement of biomolecules.
CO2 air pollution is one such rearranged pattern of biochemical molecules that may have been part of firewood, that was once a part of a tree, that was once part of a forest that was scrubbing CO2 from the air. Rearrangement coming full cycle.
Er…, what’s that got to do with rationally exploring the posit of God? What am I missing?
[quote=“martin-peter-clarke, post:133, topic:7931”]
Sliced and diced in what many bits and pieces? Rearranged how?
W4 U said: Rearranged into new molecular patterns. All birth, growth, and death involves rearrangement of biomolecules.
You asked me a direct question and I gave you a direct answer. If that is off topic, you took it there.
But now that you are trying to attach God to this process, I can respond that nothing is originally created as an irreducible complexity. The creative process is a purely natural phenomenon and always starts with assembly of the simplest forms.
No I didn’t. All my responses were on topic. Why wouldn’t they be?
Ok, then we are both on topic, excellent.
I was. I don’t know how biomolecular pattern rearrangement is germane to the question.
You asked the question.
But if you want my input on this in reference to God, I’l take a stab at it.
Religion teaches that God is the watchmaker from raw materials. IOW. God is the uncreated creator. And that is just not a logical proposition.
It is demonstrably true that everything in this universe evolved from an initial chaotic condition named the “Inflationary Epoch”, whence several chaotic quantum fields were produced from which the first elementary quantum particles emerged. As these dynamic energy fields cooled the first elements emerged (chaos theory), combined into more complex molecules and the physical process of evolution via natural selection began .
In theoretical physics, quantum field theory (QFT) is a theoretical framework that combines classical field theory, special relativity and quantum mechanics.[1]: xi QFT is used in particle physics to construct physical models of subatomic particles and in condensed matter physics to construct models of quasiparticles.
QFT treats particles as excited states (also called quanta) of their underlying quantum fields, which are more fundamental than the particles. Interactions between particles are described by interaction terms in the Lagrangian involving their corresponding quantum fields.
Perturbation theory - Wikipedia(quantum_mechanics
Each interaction can be visually represented by Feynman diagrams according to perturbation theory in quantum mechanics.
Feynman diagrams have revolutionized nearly every aspect of theoretical physics."[1] While the diagrams are applied primarily to quantum field theory, they can also be used in other fields, such as solid-state theory.
Frank Wilczek wrote that the calculations which won him the 2004 Nobel Prize in Physics “would have been literally unthinkable without Feynman diagrams, as would [Wilczek’s] calculations that established a route to production and observation of the Higgs particle.”[2]
(Feynman diagram - Wikipedia)
