As I just explained to miriana, it is irrational not to acknowledge that Reality is the absolute and therefore undivided (non-relative) context. The infinitude of relative realities being the currents and waves expressing the nature of that limitless ocean infinitely.
If you intend not to accept this as a-priori there isn’t much point in continuing the discussion.
Let me know.
I’m willing to discuss anything, even with impasses.
Your definition of reality, capitalized or not, is a tautology to me. Sounds like, Reality is everything. It’s when you start saying that your words, your sets, have further implications that we run into difficulties. Whenever someone asks me to accept something as absolutely true before we can move on, if I accept it provisionally, the next bit of logic doesn’t work either. So, I’m being honest. Letting you know where I stand.
Let’s assume you are absolutely right. How does that change anything?
But you are talking about the mathematical formulas breaking down. Infinite mass is a physical impossibility, even it one’s imagination can dream about it.
But, but, “to understand what a singularity is, imagine the force of gravity compressing you down into an infinitely tiny point, so that you occupy literally no volume. That sounds impossible … and it is. These “singularities” are found in the centers of black holes and at the beginning of the Big Bang.
These singularities don’t represent something physical. Rather, when they appear in mathematics, they are telling us that our theories of physics are breaking down, and we need to replace them with a better understanding.”
Too many mistake math for physical material objects, it is not, as this case in point demonstrates.
Of course, there is no rational reason for not accepting reality, but as far as we can tell, you aren’t talking reality or if you are, you are not defining words, as Lausten mentioned. Even so, it seems to us that if we don’t agree with you, we are wrong, which is much like a religion, not rationality.
The only impasse is that you are attempting to force your beliefs on everyone here and that’s just as bad as religion.
It is not necessarily the mathematics that are breaking down, but the physics itself.
Mathematics are immutable. To say that infinite mass is impossible is making a mathematical statement… 
You just stated it. Solar energy is free. The earth is bombarded witrh free energy to the tune of;
1,749,229,032,802 Solar energy striking Earth [today] (MWh)
The sun is the perfect energy producer. It is responsible for ALL flora (life) on earth and keeps any nuclear waste to itself.
For the earth and its inhabitants, trees are the perfect energy conversion machine. They scrub the air from CO2 and produce oxygen , while providing an almost infinite variety of food for the animals on earth.
As to using artificial energy processors, there needs not be any bad side-effects .
The earth has managed to use raw solar energy without polluting side-effects.
There is no reason why humans could not copy natural means to convert raw energy into usable power.
It will require a different “mindset” of our mindscape and the application of not-for-profit conversion mechanics so that maximum efficiency with least amount of waste becomes the standard, not the rare exception.
We get our own muscles for free, but that’s it. Batteries, computers, tractors, fertilizer, mining for metals to make those things, converting sand to solar panels, those all have a cost.
Oh yes, I realize that. All I am saying is “the energy is free” How we convert it for use is up to us. Consider that nature made trees to last up to a 1000 years of productive life.
Can we not build an artificial tree? We use fractal antennas in our I-Pods.
And now that we are running out of oil, all of a sudden we come up with new ecofriendly batteries.
Alsym Energy Debuts Low Cost Water-Based Batteries
“Unfortunately for IP reasons, the company is not ready to reveal everything they are using in their batteries yet. What I can share with you now is that the battery uses no lithium, cobalt, or nickel to avoid the problems associated with supply and costs of each of those materials. The cathode is primarily manganese oxide and the anode is a different metal oxide. In addition, the electrolyte is water based — no organic solvents.
“Currently sourcing mainly from the U.S. with some suppliers in Europe and Japan, all of the materials used in the battery are inherently non-flammable and non-toxic making sourcing, manufacturing, application, and end of life processes safe and environmentally friendly. Thus, the battery is 1) a better solution for marine applications as fleets electrify and a better solution for two wheeler applications with poor heat dissipation. The new battery reduces the need for expensive battery management and cooling systems in EVs.”
Well, with such a courteous and professional response, how could I not share this with my readers? No lithium, cobalt, or nickel? No organic solvents? No exploding electric bicycle and scooter batteries? This is news we can use.
In a press release, the company says it is partnering with a leading automaker in India to develop its batteries and will provide 3 GWh of batteries a year for use in that company’s products. Alsym is also in talks with companies in the marine shipping and electric two-wheeler markets to develop similar partnerships.
Alsym Energy Debuts Low Cost Water-Based Batteries - CleanTechnica
I’m three pages into google search and everything is business news so far. That makes me suspicious. Seems like another promise that has costs that I’d have to be a scientist or engineer to even know what to google. And you still need to get the energy into the battery. You can’t just leave them in the sun.
I’d convert to an electric car today, if I could afford one. They are so expensive though.
Your arguments underscores that disconnect people have developed between the magnificent ideas in their heads and the physical reality.
But we haven’t a clue what the “real physics itself” does without detailed observations,
we don’t ‘know’ what’s inside Black Holes. We have conjecture supported by incomprehensible math.
To say that infinite mass is possible seems strange, to be polite - of course philosophers may have come up with an alternative definitions for “infinite” so fly with it. Still, with feet firmly placed on the ground I believe we are stuck with the consequences of the good old fashioned reality.
- extending indefinitely : ENDLESS
infinite space
2) immeasurably or inconceivably great or extensive : INEXHAUSTIBLEinfinite patience
3) subject to no limitation or external determination
In your dreams. Look around at what is really happening
What a wonderful way of ignoring the reality of what’s happening, in favor of another utopian story-line.
Look at how well that has worked for humanity this past half century of increasing hyper growth. Instead of thinking about Earth’s biosphere, sustainability, we’re focused on getting more kicks.
How someone that repeatedly shares the information and implication of Dr. Albert Bartlett, can so not absorb the message, is beyond me.
Right. There are countless reason for why humans haven’t managed it.
Oh and a wonderful way of totally dismiss the matter of converting the sun’s rays (free energy) into usable electricity for human utility. Write4u, I’ve figured out you’re a Utopian Salesman and like all salesmen you can only tell your audience the bright side of life and dreams - all externalities are relegated to that grumpy old guy in the back corner, and then easily dismissed, as the dream:. Infinite growth is not only possible but the only way for us to go.
Gosh I really don’t like being the grumpy picky guy in back, but, if you don’t feed your body, those muscles aren’t going to develop.
I’ve heard from Biologist that the only free lunch happens within the ATP cycle:
Why Proton Gradients Are Necessary
© 2010 Nature Education All rights reserved.
The reason proton gradients are required boils back down to chemistry. Life hydrogenates carbon dioxide. In other words, to convert carbon dioxide into organic molecules, life attaches hydrogen atoms to CO2. There are only so many ways of doing this, and all life uses just five primary pathways. All but one of these costs energy (for example, the energy of the sun in photosynthesis).
The exception is an ancient pathway called the acetyl-CoA pathway, in which hydrogen gas is reacted, via a few steps, with CO2. This pathway is exothermic (releasing energy that can be captured as ATP) right through to pyruvate, one of the central molecules in cell metabolism.
It’s “a free lunch that you’re paid to eat,” in the words of Everett Shock…"
Back to the original question :
Who is god ?
"Thou are god " by Heinlein, in Stranger in a strange land. Each of us is god …
Right. I was thinking of our ape cousins. But, with hierarchy and all, they do pay some price. But, but, just thinking of being able to walk down my street and pick some food, without worry of property rights. A utopia that we can’t get to via current economics
We hypothize a singularity with “infinite mass”, but that does follow. Evidence shows that there is always energy (mass) escaping via Hawking Radiation
Hawking radiation reduces the mass and rotational energy of black holes and is therefore also theorized to cause black hole evaporation . Because of this, black holes that do not gain mass through other means are expected to shrink and ultimately vanish. For all except the smallest black holes, this would happen extremely slowly. The radiation temperature is inversely proportional to the black hole’s mass, so micro black holes are predicted to be larger emitters of radiation than larger black holes and should dissipate faster.[5]
Hawking radiation - Wikipedia
Greed without regard for consequences!
But I believe Nature is posting a few warnings about what will happen when we continue to ignore its mathematical law of “action and reaction”.
At some point the costs are going to exceed the profits and that will be the end of human privileged “god-like” existence.
I’ll totally buy into that!
The collective product of our own hearts and dreams, desires and fears.
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
I just heard this referenced in a study book about science fiction. From Ecclesiastes, an almost secular book in the Bible. A bit of humility that humans used to have in abundance. Now we think we know everything, or at least so we’ll keep going, and eventually know everything. Icarus tried to warn us too, but we didn’t listen.
What it is, being the undivided Whole of all relative realities inclusive of the potential that there be relative realities…what possible reason would there be not to understand it as Real…and factor it in when possible? (like the Buddhists, Yogis and Taoists already do)
(your confusion reminds me of when the concept of zero has hit the scene in various times and places)
How did the introduction of zero change mathematics?
