When It's Time to Go

Here are 240 people that we mostly have all heard of, who are over 70. Take a look at them, because in oneguy’s world, he wants any care that could prolong their lives to be prohibited.
Except for Donald Trump, the others don't look anything like the pictures in your link. They look as ugly as Mick Jagger and the walking dead even if he can still prance on the stage.

I couldn’t care less about old celebrities. The classic rockers especially deserve to have the plug pulled on them.

Lausten was talking about working yourself to death like John Henry, which doesn’t happen anyway. -- oneguy
I was thinking more along the lines of the horse in animal farm. but not even that dramatic really. As my story shows, I have no case for workers comp, I didn't get my arm chopped off by a machine, even my carpal tunnel would just fall under elective surgery. I was thinking of the cost of the 40 hour week, or in many cases the 60 hour week, or those with low paying two 30 hour a week jobs. Laws are designed and lawyers are paid to not allow a connection from that to the health costs, even though they are obvious.
Social security is doomed now because there’s not enough young taxpayers to support the huge amount of retirees. -- oneguy
Again, you just buy the lies that you are told. If the world was not getting a more wealthy and potentially better place, countries could not just keep printing money like they do. They couldn't keep building all the weapons that they do. The problem is not a lack of resources, it's how we spend them. It's what we value. You think more plastic things and flashy lights are a sign of a strong economy. I think it's clean water and people resting peacefully after a lifetime of satisfying work surrounded by people who love them.
Living beyond 70 is not ok even if you are not a drain on society or a nuisance to your family. People ought to check out when it’s time to retire, like racehorses or commercial airliners that are no longer fit for service. Old folks are not a pretty sight in a world meant for those in their prime.
My father-in-law is 86, 87 years old. He still farms hundreds of acres producing the food you and I just go to the store and buy. He does more work before noon than any 3 other people I know do all day. What is this magic power that the number 70 has which made him a drain on society or a nuisance to his family almost 20 years ago even though nothing changed for him?

Well done Guy for altering me,

I hadn’t realized just how over the edge t rump has driven right wing thinking and Republican’s in general. (hard to imagine, and I thought I was a pessimist, it’s even worse than I could have imagined.)

What a bunch of wannabe murders the Republicans have turned into.

Thanks for the clarification Guy and sree.

 

@citizenschallengev3

What a bunch of wannabe murders the Republicans have turned into.

Thanks for the clarification Guy and sree.


This has nothing to do with being a Republican or a right-wing conservative. The objection to people living past their prime is consistent with the principle of sustainability immanent in the natural order of Nature. The human body is kept healthy by constant replacement of all living cells that are programmed to die through the process of apoptosis. We are just saying that when it’s time to go, you ought to go in the interest of the long term viability of society.

If you believe that God doesn’t exist, then what is your argument against this humanist value of secularism? Christianity has no provision for the voluntary ending of one’s life for the greater good of humanity.

I hadn’t realized just how over the edge t rump has driven right wing thinking and Republican’s in general.
Oh, I get it now! People over 70 are useless anyway so it doesn't matter if Trump lets them die! I hadn't realized what this conversation was really about until you pointed it out.
This has nothing to do with being a Republican or a right-wing conservative. The objection to people living past their prime is consistent with the principle of sustainability immanent in the natural order of Nature.
Actually it is consistent with Fascist notions of choosing a certain group to cast as not worthy of existing. Then as you succeed in wiping them out and taking any wealth they may have accumulated, you Nazi bastards will come up with some other group that you can demonize and exterminate.

Why not just scream out “The Reich shall rise again!”

(Where are the Anti Fascists when you need them.)

 

What a bunch of wannabe murders the Republicans have turned into.

Thanks for the clarification Guy and sree.


Since the average republican is a senior citizen, I’d say you’re safe.

My father-in-law is 86, 87 years old. He still farms hundreds of acres producing the food you and I just go to the store and buy. He does more work before noon than any 3 other people I know do all day. What is this magic power that the number 70 has which made him a drain on society or a nuisance to his family almost 20 years ago even though nothing changed for him?
70 isn’t a magic number. The average human life span is around 60-70 years old. Most people today live longer but that’s only because of modern medicine. We can now treat the chronic diseases that are inevitable with aging and add another decade or so, but that creates a new set of problems.

People like your father-in-law who make it to 80+ without serious health problems are admirable but they’re not the norm.

I was thinking more along the lines of the horse in animal farm. but not even that dramatic really. As my story shows, I have no case for workers comp, I didn’t get my arm chopped off by a machine, even my carpal tunnel would just fall under elective surgery. I was thinking of the cost of the 40 hour week, or in many cases the 60 hour week, or those with low paying two 30 hour a week jobs. Laws are designed and lawyers are paid to not allow a connection from that to the health costs, even though they are obvious.
There is no doubt constant struggling to make ends meet takes a toll on health, but dying from it is extremely rare.
Again, you just buy the lies that you are told. If the world was not getting a more wealthy and potentially better place, countries could not just keep printing money like they do. They couldn’t keep building all the weapons that they do. The problem is not a lack of resources, it’s how we spend them. It’s what we value. You think more plastic things and flashy lights are a sign of a strong economy. I think it’s clean water and people resting peacefully after a lifetime of satisfying work surrounded by people who love them.
Yeah, there’s all kinds of ideas about completely rearranging society. However, it never works out like that anywhere on earth.

 

My father-in-law is 86, 87 years old. He still farms hundreds of acres producing the food you and I just go to the store and buy. He does more work before noon than any 3 other people I know do all day.
He is 86 and farms hundreds of acres of what? Productivity is not the qualifying factor for staying alive. If it is, then it's cruel. When it's time to go, you go regardless of how hard you can work. It's all about the rhythm of life that ebbs and flows for all alike. No special dispensation for one and not another. Socialism sounds good until you practice it.
Yeah, there’s all kinds of ideas about completely rearranging society.
Do you mean ideas like yours? Restricting health care from anyone over 70, so as to avoid their being a drain on society?

You hate Boomers and want them to die. If you happen to exterminate them, who is next on your hate list?

Do you mean ideas like yours?
No, the proposal - to end life in a timely manner and not hang onto your body like a compulsive clunker-keeper - does not amount to radical re-arrangement of society. It's just good housekeeping to throw out old bottles, used paper bags, tv sets from the fifties, and canned food long past their sell-by dates.
Restricting health care from anyone over 70, so as to avoid their being a drain on society?
Overstaying -in any situation - is downright inconsiderate and a drain on the environment. It's not only necessary to let you get out by 70, but we also need to stop over-producing like rats. Too many people are the cause of climate change.
You hate Boomers and want them to die. If you happen to exterminate them, who is next on your hate list?
Nobody wants anybody to die. It's not about hate if your body needs to shut down and you let it even if you are 45. Medical intervention to keep you alive is not rational when it is so easy to replace you with a new healthy baby.
Medical intervention to keep you alive is not rational when it is so easy to replace you with a new healthy baby.
Oh really? Not rational?

We could also easily replace you with healthy immigrants.

So you would support anyone over 45 who is ill, to just die so they could be replaced by a healthy immigrant? Would that be “rational” enough for you?

If you are being so “rational” shouldn’t we subject the sickly people over 45 to Dr Mengela’s human experiments on their way to death? So as to, you know, take fully “rational” advantage of their demise?

Btw, are you with the Society for Being Philosophically More F’d Up Than WWII Nazis?

sree is like a walking dystopian nightmare.

The average human life span is around 60-70 years old. Most people today live longer but that’s only because of modern medicine.
If "most people" life longer than 60-70 year then 60-70 years is not the "average".

The “average lifespan” is taken by adding together the ages of every person when they die and then dividing that number by the number of people in your sample. Some of the “modern medicine” which seems to vex you so much actually prevents YOUNG people from dying, not old people. Vaccines wiping out polio, for example, raised the average lifespan, not by making old people live longer, but by allowing young people to become old people. The same is true with modern pregnancy care. And the maternal death rate has plummeted in the 20th century, also greatly increasing the “average” by keeping mothers and their infants alive through birth. The maternal death rate declined 44% just from 1990 to 2017 alone.

Socialism sounds good until you practice it.
Really? What's wrong with having roads? Or schools? Sewage and water systems? All of those things are "socialism". We all pay a little so that the infrastructure is there for everyone, regardless what they pay. A purely capitalistic society always screws over the vast majority in favor of the few in power. Just look at corporate history in America. Those in power will take all they can from society, treat workers as disposable and make inferior, even dangerous products if there are no consequences and no regulations making them not do it. Even today they STILL screw over the people in favor of profit, hoping they won't get caught, such as with the current opiod crisis, which has not changed one bit since coming to light. And what happens when they do get caught? The corporation files for bankruptcy "protection" while the people who operate it are almost never held accountable. And then the corporation, after refusing to pay its bills, continues to operate until the next time they screw the people over and file bankruptcy again so that they don't have to pay for it.

Capitalism alone simply cannot work unless you don’t have a problem with corporations owning people. So what would you temper capitalism with? What philosophy would you mix it with to make it work better?

"Really? What’s wrong with having roads? Or schools? Sewage and water systems? All of those things are “socialism”. We all pay a little so that the infrastructure is there for everyone, regardless what they pay. A purely capitalistic society always screws over the vast majority in favor of the few in power. Just look at corporate history in America. Those in power will take all they can from society, treat workers as disposable and make inferior, even dangerous products if there are no consequences and no regulations making them not do it. Even today they STILL screw over the people in favor of profit, hoping they won’t get caught, such as with the current opiod crisis, which has not changed one bit since coming to light. And what happens when they do get caught? The corporation files for bankruptcy “protection” while the people who operate it are almost never held accountable. And then the corporation, after refusing to pay its bills, continues to operate until the next time they screw the people over and file bankruptcy again so that they don’t have to pay for it."
I say this kind of stuff 'till I'm blue in the face and no one seems to understand a word of it. They hate the word 'socialism' as though it's dictionary definition is :"The reason leaders mass murder their people while starving them and stealing everything they own."

That everything great about our society is based on ‘socialism’ is lost on them. I expect you will get the same type of uninformed response.

We could also easily replace you with healthy immigrants.
And why not? As long as it is merit-based, lawful and the country needs more hands on deck.

I retired ten years ago. I just turned 45 and quite ready to check out even though I am healthy. I can’t find one reason for staying alive even though I don’t have to work for a living or have anything to bitch about. The sun rises and sets every day. Seasons come and go. It’s the same damn thing over and over again. Life has been good so far and I am loving it. It makes sense to check out while I am ahead of the game. What’s your reason for hanging on?

Socialism sounds good until you practice it. -- Sree
I think what you mean is, it's nice as long it's benefiting you, whether it's directly like a loan to your small business, or indirectly like taking care of a crack baby so it doesn't end up harming the rest of us. But when you see it benefiting someone else, suddenly you think it's not fair, or when your taxes go up by 2 cents a day, suddenly it's a problem.