A person uses a logical procedure to understand when the process of his interest happened or will happen as this process proceeded, flows or will flow.He uses this procedure to plan and coordinate his actions with the plans and actions of other individuals.
I do believe, TIME is a logical procedure…
Time is a method of measuring change the same way distance is a method of measuring separation between points. Beyond that there is only theory, backed by observation, but we don’t really “know” with any certainty.
Current scientific theory says that time is an extension of space. Space and time are different forms of the same thing in the way that matter and energy are different forms of the same thing. This is backed by the observation that the faster you travel through space, the slower time moves.
I, however, think there may possibly be a simpler explanation for this observation. To my knowledge no current theory or observation says that this time dilation cannot be caused, instead, by simple mechanics of the universe. Energy moves at the speed of light, matter moves at less than the speed of light. That means that the energy making up the matter moves at the speed of light, it just doesn’t get anywhere, much like the electron circling the nucleus of an atom. So it would stand to reason that if you move the energy faster in one particular direction then the natural movement of the energy, like the circling of the electrons, would have to slow accordingly. This movement is the basis for all chemical reaction. As the sub-microscopic movement slows, the chemical reactions slow accordingly. The spring of a watch would unwind slower because the subatomic particles making it up are doing their dance slower so that they are always moving at exactly the speed of light, no more, no less. This would give the impression of time slowing.
but we don’t really “know” with any certainty.What is it we don't "know" about? The arrow of time?
“Beyond that there is only theory, backed by observation, but we don’t really “know” with any certainty.”
Agree… We are the believers, and it is sadly true.
I can’t find out if we are in the material world or VR.
But if you believe in the material world, then time becomes just a logical procedure.
No brain(no CPU) = no time.
But even the animals use this procedure all the time! ?
We use this procedure by protocol, we are got global rules of this game and this is the only difference between us and the animals.
Definitely one trapped in his Mindscape.
All you need to do is walk on an ocean beach to experience the arrow of time.
Plenty of other ways too, like jumping out of an airplane, interestingly we tend to like slowing down our speed for the landing.
Hell think about Brownian motion if you want to experience the reality of time.
Widdershins said; Time is a method of measuring change the same way distance is a method of measuring separation between points. Beyond that there is only theory, backed by observation, but we don’t really “know” with any certainty.Just as "geometrics" emerge with 3 dimensional measurements of spatial change, "time" emerges with (4th dimensonal) measurements of duration of temporal change.
The combined measurements in arbitrary units of metrics and time provide an emergent chronology of “spacetime” and individual “events” therein. Chronology is by definition a “one way” (forward) linear measurement.
I don’t see any of this as mysterious or problematic. An ever changing “universal reality” is an emergent spatial and temporal process.
You are right, no puzzles or problems.
We just compare the length of different processes or events to understand how and when the process of our interest happened, happening, or will happen, in accordance to point of existence we are chosen.
I do believe we exist in 3D World, a world full of material objects. Events happen with these objects, and we analyze and judge this event by each other.
I do believe we exist in 3D World, a world full of material objects. Events happen with these objects, and we analyze and judge this event by each other.Okay. Except I like the 4D World, including time as a dimension, since time is such a fundamental, inescapable aspect of our world.
We “judge events” in accordance with our ability to ‘illuminate’ the event. No?
Not sure what this “by each other” means in real day to day terms.
“Not sure what this “by each other” means in real day to day terms.”
If we want to understand how long a person exists, we are asking for the number.
We compare this number with another one. The result of this logical procedure will give us the number.
If a person says:“I am 55 years old”, we understand what our Earth rotated around the Sun 55 times, or
Summers happened 55 times or another convenient for us to use and compare events (process) happened.
This is how we understand the length of the processes, by comparing these processes with each other.
This is all musings within our Mindscape.
(as in interpreting our own perceptions)
What is it actually saying about Physical Reality beyond our selves?
CC-V.3 said: What is it actually saying about Physical Reality beyond our selves?It exists.... :)
Contemplating if we are in a VR is pointless. First, there is no reason to believe that is true. No evidence for it at all. Nothing to make us think that might be the case. Second, so what if we are? Does that change the universe as we understand it? Does it change the universe we know and live in? Not one bit. It’s simply a layer beyond that which we can see and touch and has no real effect on us. Whether the universe “is” or “is programmed” doesn’t matter. From our perspective it is what it is and that’s all that matters to us.
Alexandr said; I do believe, TIME is a logical procedure…I believe TIME is an experiential result of duration of a logical procedure (chronology). It is a product of memory.
Experience and perception of time
While not following Augustine all the way to the mind-dependence of other times, we can concede that the perception of temporal duration is crucially bound up with memory. It is some feature of our memory of the event (and perhaps specifically our memory of the beginning and end of the event) that allows us to form a belief about its duration. This process need not be described, as Augustine describes it, as a matter of measuring something wholly in the mind. Arguably, at least, we are measuring the event or interval itself, a mind-independent item, but doing so by means of some psychological process.Whatever the process in question is, it seems likely that it is intimately connected with what William Friedman (1990) calls ‘time memory’: that is, memory of when some particular event occurred. That there is a close connection here is entailed by the plausible suggestion that we infer (albeit subconsciously) the duration of an event, once it has ceased, from information about how long ago the beginning of that event occurred. That is, information that is metrical in nature (e.g. ‘the burst of sound was very brief’) is derived from tensed information, concerning how far in the past something occurred. The question is how we acquire this tensed information.
Time is a product of memory.Oh come on W - I though we'd agreed that memory a product of our neural net, which is something other than Physical Reality.
Time couldn’t give a flying fart what our body or mindscape thinks about it.
Our perception of time is a product of memory. But it is not "time" itself.Brownian Motion, now that seems to me is an example of time itself.
CC-v.3 said; Oh come on W – I though we’d agreed that memory a product of our neural net, which is something other than Physical Reality.I am not claiming that time is a creation of memory, it is a measurement of something associated with physical reality in our past and can only be experienced as a product of memory.
Of course memory is a product of our neural net, but it is the only way we are able to measure the duration of something starting in the past, like the start of a race and how long it has taken from then to now. That is a measurement of the past and a product of memory.
We use stopwatches to record the duration (of time) of a race and remind us of the start of a race and how long it took for the runner to reach the finish line. All this is in the past. If you really come to think of it, time is a subjective experience of duration from start to finish of an event in the memory of an observer. To an observer “now” has no time and the future does not yet exist. Only the past is measurable and that is a product of memory, usually with the aid of a measuring devise. A stopwatch is an artificial memory devise.
Time couldn’t give a flying fart what our body or mindscape thinks about it.I don't disagree with that at all. We care howt our mindscape perceives and experiences the phenomono of time. Time (duration of something in reality) is a subjective experience.
IMO, time doesn’t even exist except as an emergent bi-product of duration of something. To an observer that something is always a relative past experience in the mind (memory) of the observer. Time is experienced differently in each observer relative from the point of observation and motion of the observer.
Read the link, it’s from a respected source and really very informative. I have highlighted the past philosophical musings of very good minds in the quoted portions. I had never really considered this myself, but as my POV is that time does not exist at all independent of duration, then all my relative experiences of time are a product of my memory of my observation, and not anyone else’s.
I should really like to discuss this further as this a whole new perspective which I had never considered, but sounds very interesting prima facie.
CC-v.3 said Brownian Motion, now that seems to me is an example of time itself.No, Motion is change in space not in time. Time is a metaphysical by-product of duration of motion. It does not exist at all unless there is motion. It's one of several methods of measurement of a physical action.
No, Motion is change in space not in time.
Time does not exist at all unless there is motion.Hmmm.
Of course memory is a product of our neural net, but it is the only way we are able to measure the duration of something starting in the past,What a short jump to time is a creation of mind.
Seems another way of assuming humans create reality in their minds.
As for that article seems it has way more to do with our perception of time, than the reality of time as an independent aspect of our material universe totally divorced from the human mind and all it’s machinations.
Write4U“I believe TIME is an experiential result of duration of a logical procedure (chronology). It is a product of memory.”
Brain(CPU) can calculate what will happens with some process before this process started.
We can invent new process and predict how it will flow.
Example:How the nuclear bomb will explode was calculated before this event happened.
Write4U
“Time is a metaphysical by-product of duration of motion. It does not exist at all unless there is motion. It’s one of several methods of measurement of a physical action.”
If we will have at list one observer = we will have a time as a logical procedure.
Whole Universe can stop moving and observer will say:“It is frozen again!”
Okay W4U, Brownian Motion isn’t Time, I’ll grant you that.
But, it certainly is the physical manifestation of Time at the most fundamental level.
Perception of Time is another thing altogether