Yes, we do have enough water and energy to solve the problem.I rest my case.
Yes, we do have enough water and energy to solve the problem.I rest my case. And I rest mine. You are ignoring the breadth of this problem. Thank you for confirming that.
Yes, we do have enough water and energy to solve the problem.I rest my case. And I rest mine. You are ignoring the breadth of this problem. Thank you for confirming that. And just how am I ignoring the breadth of this problem, DarronS? By all means, point out where I've made claims about the scale of the problem.
And just how am I ignoring the breadth of this problem, DarronS? By all means, point out where I've made claims about the scale of the problem.Having enough water and energy available is only part of the problem. You never made claims about the scale of the problem, you are simply ignoring everything else I mentioned that will be required to solve the problem.
Having enough water and energy available is only part of the problem.Yes, the most critical and important parts of the problem. As in everything else is moot without those two criteria met.
You never made claims about the scale of the problem, you are simply ignoring everything else I mentioned that will be required to solve the problem.Because it has nothing to do with my original and single point, which is we have enough water and energy to solve it. I have claimed we have enough water and energy to solve the problem. You have agreed to that claim. That sums up and concludes my position.
I have claimed we have enough water and energy to solve the problem. You have agreed to that claim. That sums up and concludes my position.But that does not solve the problem. A foundation and electricity to the property do not make a house.
But that does not solve the problem. A foundation and electricity to the property do not make a house.What part of "most critical parts of the problem" translates to you as "the only parts of the problem", DarronS?
All the parts are critical. We cannot solve this problem without the capital, the means to repay it, the project plan, and the political will, plus other unforeseen consequences. Water and energy are not enough. You keep ignoring that part.
You may not care what I think you are implying but apparently everyone else here got the same impression. Here is how you entered this thread
“Any claim we’re running out of water is pure nonsense and stupidity….
We have a staggering abundance of energy and water. The only shortage on this issue is human intelligence and knowledge about those facts.”
So you start off with an abundance of arrogance and dissension and yet you want the benefit of the doubt about the intent of your comments. You will have to excuse us all when we conclude that your intent was indeed to minimize the depth of the problem.
You are right, there is plenty of non-drinkable , unusable water which we have no practical way of processing into potable water for 99% of the worlds population. There is on the other hand a serious shortage of available potable water for large portions of the human’s on this planet which is the actual subject of the discussion.
I assume when you say this claim is “stupid” its because you have a readily accessible solution. Please share it with the rest of us.
I assume when you say this claim is "stupid" its because you have a readily accessible solution. Please share it with the rest of us.I asked the same thing several posts back. I hear crickets.
All the parts are critical. We cannot solve this problem without the capital, the means to repay it, the project plan, and the political will, plus other unforeseen consequences.I'm well aware humans have a great deal of self constructed barriers and hurtles to overcome. I'm not ignoring those points, those points were never mine to begin with and I never made claims against them. All the problems can be reduced down to the two critical factors of available water and available energy to do the work of desalinating and distributing it.
Water and energy are not enough. You keep ignoring that part.Water and energy actually are enough, because that is all nature requires to accomplish the same effect. All your mentioned additional problems are something I would agree are problems in the strictest sense, but they are human created and self imposed problems, which is not what I was talking about.
Water and energy actually are enough, because that is all nature requires to accomplish the same effect.So now you're saying nature can do this all by itself? Are you that naive?
Water and energy actually are enough, because that is all nature requires to accomplish the same effect. All your mentioned additional problems are something I would agree are problems in the strictest sense, but they are human created and self imposed problems, which is not what I was talking about.But that was what I was talking about Robert in my original post, i.e. the human created problem of polluting the existing supply of potable water with toxic poisons and how this will continue if government regulations are allowed to lapse or are blocked by lobbies. As to the water suppy being diminished in some areas of the World, which seems to be what you're aiming at then yes it's happening and has been a major concern of the UN since the early 1990's. Those countries who are the hardest hit are the ones without the funds to build desalination plants and future wars will be fought over water for irrigation and drinking if the problem isn't solved. And don't forget that a large percent of the available water is locked in ice near the poles. Cap't Jack
Water and energy actually are enough, because that is all nature requires to accomplish the same effect.So now you're saying nature can do this all by itself? Are you that naive? You're actually going to sit there and pretend nature does not desalinate and distribute fresh water across the globe? Are YOU actually that naïve? Where do you think all our current sources of fresh water came from, DarronS? Magic land?
None of which has anything to do with my single point that we have no shortage of water on our planet and no shortage of energy to purify and distribute it. Ergo, the title of this thread "We're running out of water" is misleading and false.Water and energy actually are enough, because that is all nature requires to accomplish the same effect. All your mentioned additional problems are something I would agree are problems in the strictest sense, but they are human created and self imposed problems, which is not what I was talking about.But that was what I was talking about Robert in my original post, i.e. the human created problem of polluting the existing supply of potable water with toxic poisons and how this will continue if government regulations are allowed to lapse or are blocked by lobbies. As to the water suppy being diminished in some areas of the World, which seems to be what you're aiming at then yes it's happening and has been a major concern of the UN since the early 1990's. Those countries who are the hardest hit are the ones without the funds to build desalination plants and future wars will be fought over water for irrigation and drinking if the problem isn't solved. And don't forget that a large percent of the available water is locked in ice near the poles.
You’re hopeless.
Water and energy actually are enough, because that is all nature requires to accomplish the same effect. All your mentioned additional problems are something I would agree are problems in the strictest sense, but they are human created and self imposed problems, which is not what I was talking about.What in the world does that mean? I thought this was all about the amount of clean water available to people? We and our self-created problems - thanks to a tradition of environmentally unrealistic planning! :smirk: Compounded by the continuing contempt so may show towards "environment", "nature", "biosphere" and all that jazz. And I know "environmental" is pretty near the most hated and ridiculed world among Republicans - it's their nightmare failure - the fools forget environment equals our life support system. {But since so many people can't even figure out that our planet is the product of billions of years worth of an incredible evolutionary process - how can we hope for them to appreciate that we depend on the natural world. } You know Robert it's like there's a big difference between what is intellectually feasible and what actually works, and how/if it works, in the real world. Take the mega-cities in the Southwest desert that are dependent on water from the Colorado River and air conditioning. Snow pack in the mountains is decreasing resulting in decreasing water flows. How do you suggest supplementing their current water deficit? How should we prepare?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/06/us/colorado-river-drought-forces-a-painful-reckoning-for-states.html?_r=0 Colorado River Drought Forces a Painful Reckoning for States By Michael Wines | JAN. 5, 2014 The sinuous Colorado River and its slew of man-made reservoirs from the Rockies to southern Arizona are being sapped by 14 years of drought nearly unrivaled in 1,250 years. {...} But many experts believe the current drought is only the harbinger of a new, drier era in which the Colorado’s flow will be substantially and permanently diminished. Faced with the shortage, federal authorities this year will for the first time decrease the amount of water that flows into Lake Mead, the nation’s largest reservoir, from Lake Powell 180 miles upstream. That will reduce even more the level of Lake Mead, a crucial source of water for cities from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and for millions of acres of farmland. …
http://www.mynews3.com/mostpopular/story/Lake-Mead-water-only-31-feet-above-critical-levels/ezA9m0xOCESphTGMAbJoSg.cspx LAS VEGAS (KSNV MyNews3) -- Looking at any recent picture of Lake Mead tells the story of just how low our only source of water is getting. Lake Mead is the nation’s largest manmade reservoir, and our primary source of water in southern Nevada. It's drying up faster than water managers expected. The lake is capable of storing 26 million acre feet (almost 8.5 trillion gallons) of water. But according to the Bureau of Reclamation, the lake is only 47 percent full today. Water levels at the lake are 1,106 feet above sea level. Water managers are concerned because we are just 31 feet away from hitting the critical level of 1,075 ft. More than a decade of drought caused the lake to drop about 100 ft.
http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/drought-lake-powell-lake-mead-climate-change-20130818 Dwindling Colorado River Forces First-Ever Cuts in Lake Powell Water Releases Terrell Johnson Published: Aug 20, 2013Incidentally, we haven't mentioned another one of those "externalities" - the vast amount of water/rivers/lakes/wetlands that we have poisoned to the point that it damages all the biology it touches. But, that's just the cost of PROFITS ain't it.
You're hopeless.Why don't you cut to the chase, DarronS, and explain what it is you think we're apparently disagreeing about? We're in agreement there is plenty of water and energy available to solve the problem, and that was my only point.
theoretically perhaps,
but in the real world with real distances between sources and needs
there isn’t enough water and energy, nor infrastructure.
Talking about producing fresh water by boiling it. Seems this is the very method that is being considered. Thousands of stills for millions of people.
wiki
A still is an apparatus used to distill miscible or immiscible (e.g. steam distillation) liquid mixtures by heating to selectively boil and then cooling to condense the vapor. Stills have been used to produce perfume and medicine, Water for Injection (WFI) for pharmaceutical use, generally to separate and purify different chemicals, and most famously, to produce distilled beverages containing ethyl alcohol.A still is a boiler, which also creates another source of heat. Where do you build them?
Ok Robert, I’ll concede the point concerning my title. I left out the adjective Potable,but as to Darron’s point there is ample evidence to back his contention that there is a water shortage and it will lead to a crises in the future. Here is only one example, there are many others:
http://engineering.columbia.edu/will-we-run-out-fresh-water-21st-century
Cap’t Jack