Strangely, I understood that. Very well written. I wish I could write like that.It took me about 5 times
because from absolutely nothing, nothing can arise. and a eternal universe would be in a state of heath death, if the second law of thermodynamics is in action.Why not? Nothing cannot exist, ergo there is something. That's the philosophical view. From a physics viewpoint, if you sum all the matter in the universe and subtract the potential gravitational energy of that matter the result is zero, which means the universe is a special case of nothing. Now tell me more about your designer. Does it like music? Fajitas? Margaritas? Dogs? Edit: fixed a typo when someone dismisses the truth, any nonsense is believed..... http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=12&article=4587
when someone dismisses the truth, any nonsense is believed.... Are you referring to religious fundamentalists, if so I finally agree with a post of yours.Adonai888 has shown a complete failure of intellect. He cannot think for himself; all he can do is link to religious indoctrination websites and ignore questions for which he cannot find links. Trying to discuss something with him would be an utter waste of time if it weren't for the laughs at his expense. Don't like my attitude, Adonai? Then start thinking and post your own beliefs instead of endlessly linking to pathetic websites. And try replying to direct requests. Define this so-called designer about which you keep bleating. Where did the designer come from? Where is it now? My best friend's daughter is getting married in March. Should I invite the designer to the reception? There will be whiskey, tequila and Mexican food.
Yeah, Lausten, your link in another thread, led me to that poem, “Something and Nothing”. It has stuck in my head since I heard it.
because from absolutely nothing, nothing can arise. and a eternal universe would be in a state of heath death, if the second law of thermodynamics is in action.Can you explain where you think a god came from if something can't come from nothing? A god can't be 'everything', because that's simply renaming what I call 'the universe', 'god'. So you're still stuck with something (god/universe) coming from nothing. This is bugging me because I am somehow completely missing how you avoid this problem.
Something and Nothing (by Murray Lachlan Young) If beyond everything there is nothing And nothing knows nothing of things And nothing knows nothing of nothing Then everything’s everything And for every thing to be something First something must say things are things For without a thing, to decide things are things Tell me how can a thing be a thing? But when something says something is nothing Then nothing is known by a thing So the thing that said something is nothing Makes nothing a thing that’s something If beyond everything there is nothing And nothing knows nothing of things And something knows something of nothing Can nothing not, not be a thing? I found this on a BBC Forum about the conversation of science and religion existing together. It was held at CERN.Reminds me of Richard Feynman's poem... I wonder why. I wonder why. I wonder why I wonder. I wonder why I wonder why. I wonder why I wonder!
because from absolutely nothing, nothing can arise. and a eternal universe would be in a state of heath death, if the second law of thermodynamics is in action.Can you explain where you think a god came from if something can't come from nothing? A god can't be 'everything', because that's simply renaming what I call 'the universe', 'god'. So you're still stuck with something (god/universe) coming from nothing. This is bugging me because I am somehow completely missing how you avoid this problem. He'll say the designer is eternal, or some such nonsense. He moves goalposts, that's all. Lois
because from absolutely nothing, nothing can arise. and a eternal universe would be in a state of heath death, if the second law of thermodynamics is in action.Can you explain where you think a god came from if something can't come from nothing? A god can't be 'everything', because that's simply renaming what I call 'the universe', 'god'. So you're still stuck with something (god/universe) coming from nothing. This is bugging me because I am somehow completely missing how you avoid this problem. God is eternal.
because from absolutely nothing, nothing can arise. and a eternal universe would be in a state of heath death, if the second law of thermodynamics is in action.Can you explain where you think a god came from if something can't come from nothing? A god can't be 'everything', because that's simply renaming what I call 'the universe', 'god'. So you're still stuck with something (god/universe) coming from nothing. This is bugging me because I am somehow completely missing how you avoid this problem. God is eternal. Let's see some evidence of that, not just a statement with nothing behind it. Lois
because from absolutely nothing, nothing can arise. and a eternal universe would be in a state of heath death, if the second law of thermodynamics is in action.Can you explain where you think a god came from if something can't come from nothing? A god can't be 'everything', because that's simply renaming what I call 'the universe', 'god'. So you're still stuck with something (god/universe) coming from nothing. This is bugging me because I am somehow completely missing how you avoid this problem. God is eternal. Let's see some evidence of that, not just a statement with nothing behind it. Lois Its very simple. The alternative to a eternal God is either a eternal universe, which there is no evidence for this, and the second law in action means we would be in a state of heath death, or absolutely nothing created the universe. Both alternatives are extremely unlikely.
because from absolutely nothing, nothing can arise. and a eternal universe would be in a state of heath death, if the second law of thermodynamics is in action.Can you explain where you think a god came from if something can't come from nothing? A god can't be 'everything', because that's simply renaming what I call 'the universe', 'god'. So you're still stuck with something (god/universe) coming from nothing. This is bugging me because I am somehow completely missing how you avoid this problem. God is eternal. Let's see some evidence of that, not just a statement with nothing behind it. Lois Its very simple. The alternative to a eternal God is either a eternal universe, which there is no evidence for this, and the second law in action means we would be in a state of heath death, or absolutely nothing created the universe. Both alternatives are extremely unlikely. That is not evidence of an eternal god. Your answer is tantamount to saying, "I don't know and I am too weak minded to think about it so I'll invoke an imaginary, eternal unknowable and untestable god as creator so I'll feel better."
That is not evidence of an eternal god. Your answer is tantamount to saying, "I don't know and I am too weak minded to think about it so I'll invoke and imaginary, eternal unknowable and untestable god as creator so I'll feel better."Keep your unbelief. After you die, you will know the truth. If then its too late to change your mind, its your problem.
That is not evidence of an eternal god. Your answer is tantamount to saying, "I don't know and I am too weak minded to think about it so I'll invoke and imaginary, eternal unknowable and untestable god as creator so I'll feel better."Keep your unbelief. After you die, you will know the truth. If then its too late to change your mind, its your problem. Keep your belief. While you are alive you will not know the truth. You will miss the wonders and magic of the universe because you will always be looking for something beyond them that isn't there. Then, like everyone else, you'll die.
He'll say the designer is eternal, or some such nonsense. He moves goalposts, that's all. LoisWow, you nailed that one Lois.]
That is not evidence of an eternal god. Your answer is tantamount to saying, "I don't know and I am too weak minded to think about it so I'll invoke and imaginary, eternal unknowable and untestable god as creator so I'll feel better."Keep your unbelief. After you die, you will know the truth. If then its too late to change your mind, its your problem. Ooo. The damnation threat. You not only have an imaginary god, it is a vengeful god with the morals of a spoiled child. i'm not impressed. You still haven't answered my questions about what your god is like, so I can only conclude you have no idea. Doesn't matter, because anything you say would just be stuff you made up. You have no evidence any such creature exists, you are just too weak-minded to make it through life without a comforting delusion.
Keep your unbelief. After you die, you will know the truth. If then its too late to change your mind, its your problem.You think there is an infinite and eternal god who is angry if I don't believe it exists?!? That's the lamest god I can imagine. You can't deny that the idea of a god who is infinite and compassionate and created the entire universe, but who would condemn me to any sort of hell for ANY reason, but especially for thinking, is... silly. Think about the words 'compassion', 'good', 'eternal', 'god' and the prefix 'omni-', and you'll understand that in no way can all those things be combined to form the god-thing you are talking about. There are just soooo many arguments against your ideas of god it's hard to limit talking about one, because the illogic of one leads to more and more reasons it's wrong. Not only could a book be written on the subject, many have been. Break out of your self-imposed bubble of ideas and look at what else is out there. I don't mind you believing things I don't, but you better understand my position before arguing against it.
Here’s some logic. If this God that exists needs to threaten us with damnation, then there must be an opposing force. There must be a reason for needing people to worship that God. It somehow gains power by doing it. That there is some other force is pretty clearly spelled out in the Bible, but is it an honest portrayal? If God wants us on his side, why would he tell us anything but bad stuff about the other side? Given how God has handled things and how he acts (mostly by not acting at all), I’ll take my chances.
Its very simple. The alternative to a eternal God is either a eternal universe, which there is no evidence for this, and the second law in action means we would be in a state of heath death, or absolutely nothing created the universe. Both alternatives are extremely unlikely.But they are no more unlikely than to use then"god of the gaps" argument. The fact is as Neil Degrasse Tyson simply states, "we don't know yet, but we have our best people on it". There are several scientific hypothesises, e.g. The multiverse, that will take years to be tested and will either be accepted or discarded as the evidence reveals the truth. And we may never know conclusively but that doesn't mean that everyone has to rush to plug the gap with Pascal's wager just to be safe from a perceived eternal damnation by one contrived supernatural entity. Have you polled the other gods yet? WWZD? What would Zeus do? Cap't Jack
That is not evidence of an eternal god. Your answer is tantamount to saying, "I don't know and I am too weak minded to think about it so I'll invoke and imaginary, eternal unknowable and untestable god as creator so I'll feel better."Keep your unbelief. After you die, you will know the truth. If then its too late to change your mind, its your problem.Oh dear, did I just hear a heavenly threat? Adonai, is your Intelligent Designer, also a Universal hanging judge? ____________________________ Yeah, yeah I should read to the end of the thread, but that would take away the element of surprise and spontaneity of response. So, we've supposedly gone from the amazing wonder and complexity of creation being directed by some Intelligent Design to an interested personal god. Well one things for sure, it's not a fact based progression.
That is not evidence of an eternal god. Your answer is tantamount to saying, "I don't know and I am too weak minded to think about it so I'll invoke and imaginary, eternal unknowable and untestable god as creator so I'll feel better."Keep your unbelief. After you die, you will know the truth. If then its too late to change your mind, its your problem. Ooo. The damnation threat. You not only have an imaginary god, it is a vengeful god with the morals of a spoiled child. i'm not impressed... Holy crap! I am a teeny, tinsy, part of a hologram that exists within the mind of God who is going to punish me after I die because I didn't believe that I was a teeny, tinsy, part of a hologram that exists within the mind of God. Darn it! I hate when that happens.