This is the manifesto of The Religion of Peace. What do you think of it?
Islam is not doing anything the Christian religion hasn’t already done. It is just at a different cycle of time in its growth than the Christian religion.
The religion of Islam and the religion of Christianity are fundamentally different. Islam is a religion based on legalism and requires an earthly authority, meaning it seeks to set up a Theocracy or at least a caliphate with a religious authority established to maintain Sharia Law. From the beginning Islam set to conquer land and spread its beliefs around the world. Early on people of other religions were accepted in their societies but as second class citizens who must live by Islamic law.
Christianity, on the other hand, has no earthly law or civil authority. Jesus taught that his kingdom was not of this earth, and Christians are to obey the laws and authorities of the nations in which they live. The message of Christianity is one of forgiveness and reconciliation with God, not one of judgment or law. Judgment, in Christian teaching, comes later when Christ returns and is left up to God. The Christian Crusades were a feeble attempt by the Christian West of Europe to oppose the spread of Islamic advancement into Western lands. It was carried out by Western nations since Christianity has no military force. Other areas of the world also fought the spread of Islam into their lands, not just Europe.
As to the question of whether Islam is a religion of peace, yes if you accept the religion and agree to live by its laws. Not so much if you oppose them and seek to live according to other beliefs.
Islam is not doing anything the Christian religion hasn't already done. It is just at a different cycle of time in its growth than the Christian religion.Except that it's about 1,500 years behind in it's cycle and growth--most likely because it resists all growth and change and becomes less and less a religion of peace each year of its exixtence. Lois
The religion of Islam and the religion of Christianity are fundamentally different. Islam is a religion based on legalism and requires an earthly authority, meaning it seeks to set up a Theocracy or at least a caliphate with a religious authority established to maintain Sharia Law. From the beginning Islam set to conquer land and spread its beliefs around the world. Early on people of other religions were accepted in their societies but as second class citizens who must live by Islamic law. Christianity, on the other hand, has no earthly law or civil authority. Jesus taught that his kingdom was not of this earth, and Christians are to obey the laws and authorities of the nations in which they live. The message of Christianity is one of forgiveness and reconciliation with God, not one of judgment or law. Judgment, in Christian teaching, comes later when Christ returns and is left up to God. The Christian Crusades were a feeble attempt by the Christian West of Europe to oppose the spread of Islamic advancement into Western lands. It was carried out by Western nations since Christianity has no military force. Other areas of the world also fought the spread of Islam into their lands, not just Europe. As to the question of whether Islam is a religion of peace, yes if you accept the religion and agree to live by its laws. Not so much if you oppose them and seek to live according to other beliefs.All religions take that tack. Islam has simply taken it to the extreme and has adamantly refused to grow and change.
All religions take that tack. Islam has simply taken it to the extreme and has adamantly refused to grow and change.All religions take what tack? All religions are different and have different teachings. The idea that all religions evolve is nonsense. A religion is what it is. Christianity has not changed in 2,000 years since Christ handed down its truths. Islam hasn't and won't change since Muhammad proclaimed his revelation from God. The idea that someday Islam will evolve into Christianity is foolishness by people who don't know the fundamentals of the two religions. Some groups may veer from the teachings of their claimed religion, some may add or subtract from the religion, but when they have a revealed message that is written and preserved, the teachings cannot change.
Bartholomew of Constantinople was interviewed on TV and was showing the oldest known Christian churches. Bartholomew stated that the Christian beliefs and thoughts have changed so much since the first churches that a person today would not even recognize the early churches as being Christian at all.
The idea that all religions evolve is nonsense.
Do you know what you can not find in the bible?
Any original ideas or thoughts.
All religions are built on older religions and customs, especially the bible.
If you want to understand religion as it relates to mankind, the bible is not a very good source. If you study religion and want to read a book that shows proof of the evolution of religious beliefs, the bible is a good book for that purpose.
Don’t get me wrong, the bible is known as the greatest book ever written. And the most misunderstood book ever written, not by accident, but by design.
Mike,
Perhaps Bartholomew’s beliefs have changed into something unrecognizable from the Christian faith, but I can tell you that my beliefs have not. I can go back and read the writings of the early church fathers from as early as the 2nd century and agree with them completely. I have no doubt that many people have added and subtracted from the Christian faith to embrace a faith that is not Christian at all, but the teachings of Christ that make up Christianity are the same as when Christ taught them.
Here are a couple of original thoughts from the Bible:
- God loves all mankind
- Jesus is the Christ of God and the fulfillment of all that is written about him in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms.
If you think religious beliefs in the Bible have evolved, you don’t understand what the Bible teaches.
Perhaps Bartholomew’s beliefs have changed into something unrecognizable from the Christian faith, but I can tell you that my beliefs have not.
Just off the top of my head, without looking up the numbers, Bartholomew was the leader of what, 600 Million Christians; he might be somebody who knows what he’s talking about when it comes to religion.
I can go back and read the writings of the early church fathers from as early as the 2nd century and agree with them completely.
Ho no you can not. I do not believe you have those kinds of skills. I bet you are most likely reading a half translated book like the King James translation version. That last translations changes in your book I bet are less than twenty years old.
I have no doubt that many people have added and subtracted from the Christian faith to embrace a faith that is not Christian at all, but the teachings of Christ that make up Christianity are the same as when Christ taught them.
God was the religion of Abraham; Jesus was born two branches down and teaching another branch of religion than what he was born in. It’s all in the Bible.
Here are a couple of original thoughts from the Bible:
- God loves all mankind
Can you give me the name of the God you are talking about? Typical fuzzy Christian statement. Let me help you out here, it can not be the God of the OT because he was one mean SOB and people feared him, a real baby killer. If you did have the skills to read the old text you would find out that the Gods had names and people honored their Gods and called them by their names, not titles. But in translation into the bible someone thought it would be less confusing to just use titles. What are there, eleven gods in the bible?
As far as god loving mankind, Egyptian one o one, right out of the Egyptian handbook of gods.
2. Jesus is the Christ of God and the fulfillment of all that is written about him in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms.
Jesus was a Gnostic and taught Gnostic. Nothing original there.
If you think religious beliefs in the Bible have evolved, you don’t understand what the Bible teaches.
From somebody that does not even know the name of their god, or know when their bible was written and most likely can not even tell me where Amen comes from, please do not try and convert me until you know more than just religious beliefs. Add some facts to that belief.
The post is “The Religion of Peace" and Jesus was teaching Gnostic which was one of the most peaceful religions at the time in that area. I think RA was a very peaceful religion also. You can see a lot of RA in the Jewish religion but for some reason they did not pickup the peace part.
Christianity has not changed in 2,000 years since Christ handed down its truths.Demonsterably false, and you don't have to go far ans wide to see the painfully obvious. Not when there are hundreds of denominations, all of which have differences in interpretation and beliefs from the literal to the metaphorical/symbolic. They didn't all spring up the day after Yeshua Bar Yosef was executed either. They evolved, splintered and branched out over time. (BTW 1, you do know that there is NO primary source evidence whatever to show that "Jesus Christ" ever existed, don't you?) (BTW 2: You do know that it's rather difficult to determine what "truths" this guy handed down when you not only can't prove he existed, that he never wrote anything down for posterity if he DID exist, don't you?)
All Abrahamic religions have essentially The same agenda, I.e. to spread their belief system to all cultures. The Hebrews began their conquest literally by defeating all neighboring tribes via genocide as their “god” commanded. One wonders what the eventual result would have been if the zealots hadn’t been stopped by Vespasian and Titus. The Jews had to alter their agenda after that to just preserve their own culture. Now since 1948 their expansion is contained by their Muslim neighbors. The other two spin off religions have been locked in combat for a thousand years, continuing the cycle. Yes the Muslims today are far more aggressive than the westernized xtians. But there’s more to it than religion; their political philosophy is still theocratic, stressing subordination of the individual to an idealized set of sacred rules and mixed in with their legal codes. Until these two are split off (separation of church and state, or ideally, dropping religion as a cultural motivator altogether) Islam will continue to be an agressive anachronistic belief system.
Cap’t Jack
Demonsterably false, and you don't have to go far ans wide to see the painfully obvious. Not when there are hundreds of denominations, all of which have differences in interpretation and beliefs from the literal to the metaphorical/symbolic. They didn't all spring up the day after Yeshua Bar Yosef was executed either. They evolved, splintered and branched out over time.Hundreds of denominations and differing interpretations do not prove demonstrably false the idea that the true message of Christ has been present in the world since the time he proclaimed it. I can see it in the 1st century writings of Clement and the Didache, in the 2nd century writings of Ignatius, Polycarp, Papias, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus. I can see it in the 3rd century writings of Hippolytus and more. Jesus himself proclaimed there would be division and false teachers, but he also said his message of salvation would be taken to the ends of the earth, and it has been.
All Abrahamic religions have essentially The same agenda, I.e. to spread their belief system to all cultures.Actually, the agenda of the Jews was never to spread their belief system to others. It was about a promised land for the Hebrew people, and a law given them by God by which they were to live in that land. Anyone who joined them must live by their laws as given to them by God, but they only conquered a specific land that was promised to Abraham. It was the teachings of Jesus, who claimed to be the the Jewish Messiah, that eventually sent the message of salvation from sin and reconciliation with God to all nations. But this was not to spread the belief system to all cultures, it is to call out from among the nations a people for God before God's judgment comes on all nations and destroys all sinners. Islam combines the two. They are theocratic and want to take that theocracy and the law within it to all nations. They want not only their own land, but the land of the Jews and Gentiles as well. Their goal is to dominate the world and for all people to submit to Allah and his prophet Muhammad.
Actually, the agenda of the Jews was never to spread their belief system to others. It was about a promised land for the Hebrew people, and a law given them by God by which they were to live in that land. Anyone who joined them must live by their laws as given to them by God, but they only conquered a specific land that was promised to Abraham. It was the teachings of Jesus, who claimed to be the the Jewish Messiah, that eventually sent the message of salvation from sin and reconciliation with God to all nations. But this was not to spread the belief system to all cultures, it is to call out from among the nations a people for God before God’s judgment comes on all nations and destroys all sinners.You didn't read my second sentence or maybe I didn't make myself clear here. The Hebrews were commanded by their god to literally lay waste to all city states and cultures in the surrounding area, killing not only the inhabitants but destroying their gods as well. Also, the biblical interpretation is that Yawyeh was to have dominion over ALL people and not just the Hebrews. That's why there was a "Court of the Gentiles" in place at the Temple; wherein the non Jews could have their sacrifices taken to the area reserved only for the priestly class. and as to Jesus claiming to be the "Messiah" he did before the Sanhedrin Council but continuously referred to himself as the "Son of Man", an appellation he borrowed from Daniel. and BTW Jesus was addressing only the Jews during his ministry and had little to do with Gentiles. Much of what you contend actually came from later writings beginning with Paul's Letters. You might want to read "The Quelle" or Q Gospel among others to cull out his actual message which was far more basic than the embellished gospels written over thirty years after his death. Cap't Jack
The Hebrews were commanded by their god to literally lay waste to all city states and cultures in the surrounding area, killing not only the inhabitants but destroying their gods as well.The Hebrews were to "lay waste" to all the inhabitants of the land promised to them, not the surrounding areas. This was a judgment on the people of that land--the land of Canaan. God told Abraham that it would be four hundred years before his descendants would inhabit that land because he was waiting for the sins of the people living there to reach the point of judgment. There's an outter court on the Temple for the worship of righteous Gentiles by their choice. Son of Man simply refers to the fact that someone is a man. Many prophets of the OT are referred to in this way. "The Aramaic phrase bar enash means human being." I know Jesus addressed the Jews during his ministry, but when he was rejected he sent his apostles to take the message of salvation to the ends of the earth in keeping with the Prophet Isaiah. And it has gone to the ends of the earth. You said, "You might want to read "The Quelle" or Q Gospel among others to cull out his actual message which was far more basic than the embellished gospels written over thirty years after his death. Thank you for illustrating how the Christian message becomes corrupted. I'll pass on the theory of the Q document and simply believe the original message as it was handed down through the early church fathers.
Thank you for illustrating how the Christian message becomes corrupted. I’ll pass on the theory of the Q document and simply believe the original message as it was handed down through the early church fathers.Ok Lilly, this tells me a great deal about your knowledge of biblical philosophy and history. Lying solely on later commentaries gives you a rather stunted view of the early church and the true meaning of Jesus's message. That puts us at loggerheads on the subject of xtianity. Cap't Jack
Hundreds of denominations and differing interpretations do not prove demonstrably false the idea that the true message of Christ has been present in the world since the time he proclaimed it.Actually, it does. All of them claim to be "THE One True Faith And All Others Are False." All of them claim to be the guardians of what you call "the true message of Christ." In view of their vast differences of opinion as to exactly what that "true message of Christ" happens to be, it stands to reason that the vast majority of these people are gravely mistaken.
It was the teachings of Jesus, who claimed to be the the Jewish Messiah, that eventually sent the message of salvation from sin and reconciliation with God to all nations.No it was not. It was the deciples and then predominantly Paul...who is the inventor of the faith as we understand it for the most part...who sent some sort of message out. Whether or not any part of came from Yeshua Bar Yosef...if the man even existed in the first place....is something we will never know because Yeshua never left anything in writing by his own hand to check against the claims made on his behalf. And please be aware that there were all kinds of different sects with vastly different ideas about what this "True Message Of Christ" was, the Gnostics being the most prominent among them and known to us only because their writings survived. The rest ended up on a bonfire somewhere and what little we know about them comes from hostile witnesses.
This is the manifesto of The Religion of Peace. What do you think of it? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AboutSite.htmThis was a good take on Islam. I think, though, that every religion has equal potential for such behavior. Lilly's apologetic impression of Christianity only reflects her particular non-Catholic view. While I agree that it's better to have a tamer and less harmful religion, any religion presupposes an absolute authority on truth that has a relative impact on others external to it who do not believe and on those within it who are aroused to skepticism. While many religions recognize freedom of conscience, it doesn't extend to acting on that conscience. This seems fair by a religion in political favor because as long as their religion is allowed action according to their conscience, there's nothing to complain about from their perspective. Freedom of conscience alone isn't sufficient to safeguard religious abuse. Freedom from active policy making based on religious justification is necessary.
All religions take that tack. Islam has simply taken it to the extreme and has adamantly refused to grow and change.All religions take what tack? All religions are different and have different teachings. The idea that all religions evolve is nonsense. A religion is what it is. Christianity has not changed in 2,000 years since Christ handed down its truths. Islam hasn't and won't change since Muhammad proclaimed his revelation from God. The idea that someday Islam will evolve into Christianity is foolishness by people who don't know the fundamentals of the two religions. Some groups may veer from the teachings of their claimed religion, some may add or subtract from the religion, but when they have a revealed message that is written and preserved, the teachings cannot change. The tack they take is that their religion is one of peace--as long as it's embraced and followed to the nth degree. Woe betide anyone who makes a mistake or considers leaving it. And people who have never embraced it are fair game for all the "peace" the religion claims. Even Christianity takes this tack, though at this stage in it's development it is no longer kiling and maiming people for not embracing it, as it did in the Inquisition. However, it still claims that anyone who doesn't embrace Christianity (and often just a certain brand of Christianity) will be condemned to eternal damnation. But it still claims to be a compassionate and fair religion, as does Islam. I guess it all depends on one's definition of such words as peace, compassionate and fair.
Mike, Perhaps Bartholomew's beliefs have changed into something unrecognizable from the Christian faith, but I can tell you that my beliefs have not. I can go back and read the writings of the early church fathers from as early as the 2nd century and agree with them completely. I have no doubt that many people have added and subtracted from the Christian faith to embrace a faith that is not Christian at all, but the teachings of Christ that make up Christianity are the same as when Christ taught them. Here are a couple of original thoughts from the Bible: 1. God loves all mankind 2. Jesus is the Christ of God and the fulfillment of all that is written about him in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms. If you think religious beliefs in the Bible have evolved, you don't understand what the Bible teaches.I'm afraid you don't know, either. Some Old Testament passages are horrific, as are plenty of New Testament ones, and Jesus is never quoted as distancing himself from the Hebrew writings that were the central part of the Jewish religion and became the Old Testament. Jesus is quoted as saying he came to fulfill the prophecies of those writings. He was born, lived and died a Jew and did not create a new religion. So, as a good Christian, are you remaining silent in Church, and submit to your husband's authority? And do you ever eat meat and dairy together, and never eat pork and have you ever worn clothing made of two kinds of threads? I am sure you treat your slaves in accordance to the instructions in the Bible, too. Of course these are tame compared to other horrific passages in the bible that you are apparently following to the letter because you are following in the footsteps of Jesus who revered and followed the Old Testament writings and never said anyone should create a new religion. Lois