Is it cruel to consider such a thing as childish?Yes, that's cruel.
It’s a hard problem that has no true solution.But someone summarized the Vedanta link to me more or less:
You can't definitively prove your eyeballs too.You only know youre eyeballs through your senses but you only know your senses through your senses, so this whole world is internally referential.
Theres a point of awareness and experience flows through it.
Your brain, too, is a product of your senses, which too, are internally referential.
Just because you see a brain and feel a brain doesn’t mean there IS a brain.
In other words, since we only know the physical world through our sesnses and in fact only know our senses through our senses, its all internally referential hearsay.
The whole physical plane and your body in it may be bullshit.
Thats your basic assumption, that you are this body.
Yet people exists who have any of every single part of it missing and still are human.
There’s people with brain remnants the size of a tangerine being functional people. You’re talking to a guy with no left coronary artery
The body is just a thing that comes and goes. You are the constant factor in it. The rest grows up and grows old.
Anything but the point of awareness and what flows through it is illusory.
My point is that since theres only the point of awareness and that what flows through it, everything you believe in only has merrit to the extent its useful to you.
It’s everything from our conversation but it’s similar to what science gets all. All I have are my senses but just because I see and feel something doesn’t make it real. I mean the rubber hand illusion is proof about how our own selfhood can be called into question.
But what really gets me the most is thinking other people may not exist. That’s the kind of crippling loneliness people can’t take.
but it’s similar to what science gets all.I think you left out a word there. "Gets all" what?
That’s the kind of crippling loneliness people can’t take.Well, you can't take. Because as you keep proving, people throughout history have grappled with this, and most of them were fine about it.
You’d think by now that you’d figure out that for you to be right, then we don’t exist, but you’re trying to convince us you’re right, but we don’t exist. For your loneliness to be true, we don’t exist, so who are you trying to convince? Makes it hard to convince to me, when for it to be true, you have to exist, so, I’m unconvinced.
Yes, that’s cruel.Solipsism (/ˈsɒlɪpsɪzəm/ ( listen); from Latin solus, meaning 'alone', and ipse, meaning 'self')[1] is the philosophical idea that only one's mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind.
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Hmmmm.
Why does that make me think of all the people, particularly Republicans (since the Koch, Murdoch, etc. forces) and their maliciously fabricated propaganda and brainwashing campaigns of there past three-ish decades - that has now convinced their followers that any attempt to correct their FACTUAL ERRORS should be considered a mortal attack upon them, deserving retaliation of the most extreme viciousness (for instance pretty much everything that comes out of FOX and trump’s mouth.)
Why can it not be considered childish? Why shouldn’t it be recognized undeveloped mental and emotional facilities . . . .
Why must we coddle it? Especially when they only show viciousness toward all that are not part of their party? Especially since it consistently leads to such hideous out ones 9/11 - COVID-19 going from serious health threat to major epoch changing pandemic - and no we are no going to find are selves back in some resemblance of yesteryears - from here on out, it only going to get more vicious as this Earth gets more hostile towards their coddle human species.
yes and these sorts of petty empty self indulgences have lead to today monstrously unhinged situation - so excuse me if I jump from the micro to the macro, it’s all of one fabric that I’ve been watching get woven and grow for decades, and every concern of my dismissed with ridicule and sarcastic contempt - yet, yet, none (absolutely f’n none) of the right wings of the rosy predictions have turned out the way we were promised for 99% of the people. In every arena it’s falling part, and people dream of bringing back normal, never appreciating we don’t follow cycles, we are careening into an increasing hostile biosphere of our own deliberate making.
Okay I may not convince anyone of anything - but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth bitching about it loud and clear.
If for no other reason than to give those few who do cling to realism and physical factual reality, something to help take away their shame for seeing what everyone else is denying with every fiber of their beings.
Why does that make me think of...No idea. No connection that I see.
“Given that I can only observe the behavior of others, how can I know that others have minds?” the Solipsist asks.
I could give some answers to that, but it would be to no avail, as it would not be sufficient to sway the typical Solipsist.
But the problem of Solipsism, is not that it declares that we cannot know for sure that other “minds” exist. The problem is that taking the stance that other “minds” do NOT exist, is completely ridiculous in terms of actual functioning in our lives. Seriously, what good can come from it?
It’s not a matter of good or anything else like that, it’s just that it’s a problem that seems to have no true solution to it. The existence of other people and other minds is in itself uncertain, saying they don’t exist requires proof.
I guess the possibility scares me stuff though, to think my care for the ones I love would be “wasted” if they weren’t real. Though there was that link I mentioned about that Buddhist branch that refutes the claims of other minds.
I don’t want there to be no one else, but the uncertainty wall seems hard for me to navigate over. I’m not good with faith as a solution but that seems to be all I have.
I’m open to arguments against this to be honest. I had this two years ago and only got on with my life by forgetting it but I want to put it to bed. This is no way to live.
Ive tried a few other forums but I realize that looking at other people’s responses is ironic in this case. Still though it’s an act of faith on my end and a shaky one at that. In this sense the responses are mixed.
This is no way to live.Got that right
Bertrand Russell was once approached by a woman singing the praises of solipsism as a philiosophy. She was so impressed by it that she was quite surprised many more people did not adopt it.
I’m open to arguments against this to be honest. I had this two years ago and only got on with my life by forgetting it but I want to put it to bed. This is no way to live.On the contrary, it's a great way to live. You are all there is, and that is the awesome truth. Don't fight it. Embrace it.
No idea. No connection that I see.That's the problem, and I though you were familiar with the past decades worth of the tactical right wing oligarch* driven political attacks against science and fact based reasoning, not to mention the right wing Jesus Pimps and their brainwashing.
*if not definite oligarchs wannabes for sure. But than I’d say Murdochs and Kochs and some of the others would meet every criteria for being an oligarch - but then I’m not as book learned as you, so you may disagree with my reading of the word.
Yeah baby it’s all about Me First. Oh yeah sorry I forgot this thread is about nothing being real.
On the back was an anti-abortion - right to life - poster, but that she’ll save for another day.
I though you were familiar with the past decades worth of the tactical right wing oligarchI am. They are connected to greed, not bad philosophical arguments.
Here’s a good one. The fact that solipsism occurred to you proves you are part of a social world.
The problem with solipsism is it’s very existence. If a completely solipitic being existed, it would never be able to consider the concept of solipsism. In order to do that, it would have had to become aware of itself and develop an identity including an ‘I’ concept. To do that, it would have needed to ‘exit’ it’s own ‘being’ and consider itself from another’s point of view. But, there are no others or other points of view in solipsism. It follows that a truly soliptic being has no self because it has no other selves to define itself. Individuality, loneliness, ‘one’, ‘only’, ‘me’…all of these are social concepts that only make sense in a social setting. To me, this opens up a whole new series of questions such as 1) what is the nature of ‘me’, 'you, … and how is it that we seem to be interconnected in such a way that you are part of my consicouness.I believe solipsism is a consequence of the very nature of the phenomenological aspects of human consciousness. It is an unfinished statement that really states: I can only feel one subject in my consciousness, me. I am aware of other subjects but only feel like one. But, hey, I might wrong. – Mathieu Gagnon, Ottawa
You are all there is, and that is the awesome truth.You are making a joke there to yank our chains. Correct?
Lausten "not bad philosophical arguments."Wow, that shocks me. Really, the rejection of honest??? The deliberate fabrication of memes specifically intended to hide or disparage actual definable defendable knowledge we have gained! But we can 't explain that the truth because they scream so loud and their PHILOSPoHY refuses to engage in a constructive debate while we roll over, in silent acquiescence and let is slide.
What do you call the mentality that has justified that sort of totalitarian mentality?
Lausten you are getting tougher to figure out. Is anything worth standing up for and fighting for in your outlook? -
How about a basic recognition that honest debate and constructive learning is required if we’re to do anything but supercharge our growing problems.
Transparent calculated lies that degrade people’s lives are a violent attack on people and all you seem to offer is kay sera sera - while getting offended at anyone who’s offended at the calculated deluge of lies intended to stupefy and mislead We The People for a short term self-destruction Me First Philosophy, that is literally working at bringing our society to its knees and then into the ground to be covered by the dust of the ages.
Really, the rejection of honest??? -- CCIt’s hard to know what you are talking about in this thread. The only thing I rejected is that solipsism is somehow tied to right wing moronic arguments. Whatever their philosophy is, and I’m not sure I’d even it honor it by calling it a philosophy, it’s not solipsism. The “mentality that justifies totalitarianism” is basically greed, but that’s a different thread.
So, the rest of what you say, I don’t know how who you are saying that to. Not me.
I guess that makes sense. From a certain view solipsism seems impossible because self implies other and if there was just me then there wouldn’t really be a self to compare others to. It’s a good argument but not definitive proof though. Still it is a good case
Wow, what a reasonable response.
It’s hard to know what you are talking about in this thread.My first reflex is to start, My Dear Narcissus... But, I'll refrain from that. ;-)
I’ve always felt that the problem with too much Book Learning is that it makes categorizing and divisions so much easier to indulge in, when in the end it’s all of one fabric and when we pluck on one thread, it does propagate through the entire fabric.
In my youth, the Jesus Freaks, I don’t care if it offends, obsessive exclusionary freaks is what they were/are, with their varied fabricated stories lines that - rationalists needed to start bowing down to because, no one better dare questions One’s Faith In God - Or they come down on you like a ton of bricks.
They believed with all their manipulative souls, self-obsessed souls that there was Only One Way To Heaven and “everlasting” life, THEIR WAY.
Once liberals started bowing down for Their Self-fabricated Faith and their demands for silence from rationalists and scientists simply grew and grew. Then it was carried on to denying the damage caused by smoking. Then the advertising psych geniuses learning how to Sell Doubt and Hostility against any one who tried corrected factual errors, and it’s turned into a class war, that has permeated every aspect of our thinking and being. But, in the end it really did start with extreme right wing using “God Fraud” to brainwash and manipulate the hearts of millions.
Now i imagine you’ll tell me, none that makes sense.
My response, look at the reality of our society and the biosphere we are living within - none of that makes sense either, but it’s causes are easy to break down into delusional thinking, founded on insecure self-certainty that morphed into the politics of resentment and rage. While the super wealthy megaphones learned how to take any crackpot three stooges and make them into nationally influential figures - to sow distrust, resentment and sororicide within We The People of the United States of America. Of course, all they are capable of is vandalizing, but hey its something. Eh?
Now we have the supposed president of the us, a Russian Obligate, who stood by like the mental imbecile that he is, since November pretending that his empty words are all that matter and that reality could be ignored. Now from the news it seems no one has learned a thing and those forces are simply doubling down. Considering the successes we rationalists and thinkers have allowed them, guess this was to be expected.
It’s all of one thread.