I don’t have any obligation to address your concerns and accusations
you’re the one who cited him and I pointed out how he doesn’t support what you say.
Not sure calling it an ad hominem attack is accurate, if it matches the facts.
Alan Watts died in his sleep on November 16, 1973, at age 58, likely due to heart failure brought on by severe, long-term alcohol dependency. While known for his teachings on Zen and Taoism, his later years were marked by heavy drinking, often consuming a bottle of vodka daily, leading to physical decline.
Is there any value in the adage: “Doctor heal thyself?”
That’s what I said. It’s easy to google which is why I’m surprised they didn’t know. Also makes me doubt if they understand “no self” and the contradiction this guy made in my original post.
But yeah, for a guy for talked about letting go and not seeing yourself as a person (which again makes me think they didn’t understand the video because it’s not supporting their point) that didn’t seem to stop the alcoholism, which makes me think he didn’t buy any of it
As your quote says, it was later in life when his drinking problem began. Watching a world slowly decay when you believe the problems are caused by errors in thinking and believe you have a way to correct those errors, makes sense to me that could wear a person down.
The premise here seems to be that if you have a spiritual path that helps you deal with suffering, then you should not suffer. That’s not valid. We wouldn’t need Buddhism if there wasn’t evil, and oppression, and selfishness. If it worked for everyone, we wouldn’t be interpreting ancient texts, we would just be living in a non-evil world.
The problem was long term however and the whole point of his “teachings” was that you don’t get worn down by stuff like how the world is. But he evidently didn’t buy a word of it given how his life ended. Had he believed anything he said he wouldn’t have died like he did. I mean it was easy to find the flaws in the video you posted.
That’s not really accurate, if you had a path that helps deal with suffering then you wouldn’t suffer. That’s the point.
Buddhism’s claim is that it does work, but it’s very difficult to follow through with.
Either way how Alan Watts life ended is sorta an argument against his words, he clearly didn’t believe any of it.
You’re digging a hole for yourself. You are demonstrating bad logic and refusing to consider that it might be bad.
You’re the only one who dug a hole by initially citing that video, and when I pointed out the errors you didn’t have a reply. It’s also not bad logic to question the validity of his teachings given how his life ended up.
I’ve made my case for why your logic and reasoning don’t follow, and your only reply is to handwave it.
So you inspired me to listen to that Watts video. See I was introduced to Alan Watts in 1979, I was a big fan for a while, then he lost his appeal to me when I started feeling like he was more about his own trip, than about the message he’s conveying, (a poser, rather than a seeker, more interested in titillating his audience than truly digging down.)
It happened sort of hand in hand with “woo” losing its legitimacy for me.
The second video about the meaninglessness of life, doesn’t get past platitudes, since our biology and the reality of our biological, and our evolving in step with the rest of this planet, none of that deserves mention. Making it a fail.
Inthedark was simply pointing out the fact that Alan Watts’ truth wasn’t enough to save himself, when he needed it most. But, then it’s true Alan never pretended he was a saint, his alcoholism was his way of celebrating life and dealing with the pressure of celebrity living. I was amazing at how much as been written about it.
During the 2nd minute + he discusses the complicated human being, without ever touching on biology, nor our evolutionary linkages.
2:15 - “… and so, I see every one of you as the primordial energy of the universe coming on at me in this particular way. I know I’m that too.”
At 3 minutes, he discusses our feeling of separateness from the universe and the Big Bang, again never a hint at our connection to the physicality of this Earth that created us to begin with.
4:18 “We are as symptomatic of the scheme of things.”
That another one of those statements that true enough, but it doesn’t tell us anything about who we are, beyond a few empty feel-good words for a quick dopamine fix.
6:00 Alan comes back to the need to “feel that we are the eternal universe.”
And I’m wondering, how can anyone possibly get there, without first spending time with the immediately past few billion years, and first learning about how Earth fabricate us, through the process of Evolution. And how that informs us about the Oneness we are all connected to?
5:55 “ I think quite urgently in need of coming to feel that we are the eternal universe. Each one of us otherwise we’re going to go out of our heads.
At about 7:00 Alan asks “How does the body decide to do something?
That descents into more meaningless talk for talk, because, because he doesn’t have the wherewithal to address how our biological body functions and how it navigates the world.
8:25 “Your body knows that you are one with the universe.”
But Watts doesn’t indicate any awareness of what the body is, so how can he presume to tell us what the body knows.
Of course, his statement that “The Body Knows of it’s ones with the “universe” is true enough, but that “knowledge” can’t be understood without also understanding your evolutionary origins. Metaphorically think of old fashioned candles that started as a string dipped into molten wax, then re-dipped and re-dipped, each generational layer living a life upon the heritage of a body it received at birth, and then after a full life, giving birth of young who are ready to take up the gauntlet of life, with its life experiences creating a legacy to add on as the next wax dip.
That metaphor hints at the biology of why it is true that we can think of ourselves as One with the All. Offering something more tangible than human hot air.
It also hints at why we know that our bodies possess incredible layers of complexity, knowledge, agendas, and strategies beyond our conscious awareness.
8:26
Alan Watts - “In other words, that the so-called involuntary circulation of your blood is one continuous process with the stars shining. If you find out that it’s you who circulates your blood, you will at the same moment find out that you are shining the sun because your physical organism is one continuous process with everything else that’s going on. …”
Truth is meaningless without a specific frame of reference. Okay, the above quote is plenty true, in a stoney metaphorical fashion, but it offers no constructive concept that can inform us about our human condition.
If I’m mistaken, please explain.
9:10 - Alan Watts mentions “Physical Reality”
9:55 - “The ‘Ego’ is a joke.”
“The Ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention. … Like radar on a ship”
Again, in a weird metaphorical manner, this is true, but it’s missing a lot, it lacks a foundation, substance, and definition.
10-ish “If you identify with ego you remain in a perpetual state of anxiety.”
Another over simplification, that offers nothing beyond platitudes to work with.
10:30 “And the moment we cease to identify with the ego and become aware that we are the whole organism. you realize the as the first thing how harmonious it all is because your organism is a miracle of harmony.”
This is gratuitous pandering! We physically can not stop identifying with our ego.
But that doesn’t really become clear until one realizes the divide between physical reality, including your body’s biological evolutionary substance & heritage - as opposed to the stream of consciousness that you body-brain is always broadcasting to itself.
12:00 “If you awaken from this illusion…”
That’s followed with more platitudes, unfortunately lacking the foundation and substance required to be valuable constructive advice.
12:30 “What you are basically deep deep down far far in, is simply the fabric and structure of existence itself. So in this idea then everybody is fundamentally the ultimate reality.”
I mean what does that last sentence offer?
Ironically I do feel that calming connection to the all.
It didn’t bestow any superpowers, but it give my soul a feeling of arriving at home.
Given national events of the past couple decades, I would be fit for a padded cell and suicide watch if not for this journey of discovery I’ve been on my entire life.
As it is I’ve learned how to prioritize, and I’ve faced my demons and society’s horrors. They left their scare tissue, that’s become armor, against this dystopian dead end reality we have created for ourselves.
My observation is that only with a deep understanding of yourself as an evolved biological creature of this Earth’s making, and learning enough to appreciate the Physical Reality ~ Human Mind divide, with it’s cascading implication,
can such lofty platitudes, make grounded, rational sense.
I think he assumes you know what a body is
The other problems with the video is that he gets a lot of the Zen and Buddhist stuff wrong. None of Buddhism says you are the universe/everything.
This isn’t entirely right about ego and even other traditions say ego is important to have but to not let it get too much.
I don’t think he does since he also made a point of deconstructing that in his video.
No doubt.
“Ego” get’s tricky,
Like truth, the context must be established, in order to know we are on the same page.
Simple self-identify is ego in action. Fundamental healthy self awareness, self consciousness.
Egoistical is another thing,
And so on.
What’s what?
Who is the master of one’s heart,
developing interior connections and solidity,
or chasing a flashy facade and an easy time?
Of course, there’s also the option of being a Brick In The Wall, where ego probably doesn’t matter much one way or the other.
Happy trails. Keep us posted.
