I'm taking a bet that we discover proof of life elsewhere in the universe before we discover proof of the existence of God.You lose. There is already proof of God's existence: Before the universe existed there was nothing from which it appeared, which is impossible by any natural cause. Therefor the cause of the universe was supernatural, proving the existence of God. Unless and until evolutionists/atheists can conduct a repeatable experiment, verified by qualified scientists demonstrating that statement is untrue, their pronouncements must be regarded with the same respect as those of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The fact that the appearance of the universe from nothing has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky. http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138&Itemid=71 http://www.apologeticspress.ws/articles/1762 http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=137 http://www.existence-of-god.com/first-cause-argument.html http://www.existence-of-god.com/existence-of-god.html http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
I'm taking a bet that we discover proof of life elsewhere in the universe before we discover proof of the existence of God.You lose. There is already proof of God's existence: .... The fact that the appearance of the universe from nothing has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky. What happens if you apply the logic you just used against atheists, to your own argument for God? Apply it just before that point where you say "therefore, it must be supernatural", or right after that, where you that supernatural thing must the God of the Bible.
I'm taking a bet that we discover proof of life elsewhere in the universe before we discover proof of the existence of God.You lose. There is already proof of God's existence: FFS Pahu what have you been drinking / smoking / injecting? So presumably tomorrow morning you will be at Roman Catholic Church receiving the biscuit and wine which immediately become Christ's body and blood. Within a couple of hours you will be shitting and pissing the sacred body and blood. That's not very nice.
I'm taking a bet that we discover proof of life elsewhere in the universe before we discover proof of the existence of God.You lose. There is already proof of God's existence: Before the universe existed there was nothing from which it appeared, which is impossible by any natural cause. Therefor the cause of the universe was supernatural, proving the existence of God. And a motivated emotional God at that.
Unless and until evolutionists/atheists can conduct a repeatable experiment, verified by qualified scientists demonstrating that statement is untrue, their pronouncements must be regarded with the same respect as those of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.The Netherlands just recognized FSM as a legitimate church. So God may well be the FSM. Can you prove otherwise?
The fact that the appearance of the universe from nothing has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky.So God came from *Nothing* and was able to create the Universe from *Nothing*? Could it be that the concept of God came from *Nothing*? p.s. It was not the Pope who came to the conclusion that Evolution is true. It was the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. The Pope only made the declaration and then tried to make it *fit* to Scripture. p.p.s. I can prophecize that the earth will be swallowed up by the sun in a few billion years. How's that for prophecy?
The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin.Jesus prophesied some of the people present with him would see him return to restore the Kingdom of Heaven®. The Bible also teaches us that we can know false prophets because their prophecies do not come true. So, according to your holy book Jesus was a false prophet. Please provide chapter and verse. I thought you knew the Bible. The New Testament is full of passages referring to the then-current age as the "last hour." Jesus Christ his own self said he would return before the then-current generation passed away. I don't have time to look up chapter and verse right now, but I'd think as a Bible thumping Christian you'd be familiar with these teachings. You should spend more time examining the Bible objectively and less time reinforcing your preconceived notions.
I believe the story of the Garden of Eden is a parable or allegory.Doesn't matter if it is allegorical or literal, the problem is according to your mythology Yahweh created Adam and Eve without the ability to discern right from wrong, and he is now punishing billions of people because A&E made the wrong choice. He created imperfect beings and is punishing us all for being imperfect. If he existed Yahweh would be the most vile, evil mass murderer conceivable. Read the Old Testament. That god of yours has the manners and morals of a soiled child. You cannot have a rational discussion with someone who holds irrational beliefs. Which is exactly the reason we can't have a rational discussion with you, Pahu.
Pahu, By the way, if you really feel this is pseudoscience why didn't you post in that forum to begin with?It's what trolls do. They can't help themselves.
The fact that the appearance of the universe from nothing has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky.Science is based on what we can observe and test, there is nothing to test from before the beginning of the universe as it was literally the creation of everything including space/time. So the choices simply aren't, either the universe was created from nothing or an intelligent agency performed a miracle. The fact is there is simply no evidence.
Anything that cannot be logically explained is obviously in God’s domain of expertise. Leicester City will shortly be Premiership Champions, God did it.
I'm taking a bet that we discover proof of life elsewhere in the universe before we discover proof of the existence of God.You lose. There is already proof of God's existence: .... The fact that the appearance of the universe from nothing has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky. What happens if you apply the logic you just used against atheists, to your own argument for God? Apply it just before that point where you say "therefore, it must be supernatural", or right after that, where you that supernatural thing must the God of the Bible. The reason I believe He is the God of the Bible is it is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving divine origin, and He reveals He created everything and everyone.
I'm taking a bet that we discover proof of life elsewhere in the universe before we discover proof of the existence of God.You lose. There is already proof of God's existence: FFS Pahu what have you been drinking / smoking / injecting? So presumably tomorrow morning you will be at Roman Catholic Church receiving the biscuit and wine which immediately become Christ's body and blood. Within a couple of hours you will be shitting and pissing the sacred body and blood. That's not very nice. No it isn't. Perhaps you could try being nicer. Do not confuse Catholicism with Christianity.
I'm taking a bet that we discover proof of life elsewhere in the universe before we discover proof of the existence of God.You lose. There is already proof of God's existence: Before the universe existed there was nothing from which it appeared, which is impossible by any natural cause. Therefor the cause of the universe was supernatural, proving the existence of God.
And a motivated emotional God at that.Those are your words, not His.
The Netherlands just recognized FSM as a legitimate church. So God may well be the FSM. Can you prove otherwise?The Bible proves otherwise. The opinions of mankind are irrelevant.
So God came from *Nothing* and was able to create the Universe from *Nothing*?God has revealed He has always existed.
p.s. It was not the Pope who came to the conclusion that Evolution is true. It was the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. The Pope only made the declaration and then tried to make it *fit* to Scripture.Do you believe everything the Catholic Church says?
p.p.s. I can prophecize that the earth will be swallowed up by the sun in a few billion years. How's that for prophecy?Very vague and uncertain as opposed to the accurately fulfilled prophecies in the Bible.
The fact that the appearance of the universe from nothing has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky.Science is based on what we can observe and test, there is nothing to test from before the beginning of the universe as it was literally the creation of everything including space/time. So the choices simply aren't, either the universe was created from nothing or an intelligent agency performed a miracle. The fact is there is simply no evidence. And yet the facts of science confirm that the universe cannot be infinitely old or all useable energy would have been lost already (entropy). This has not occurred. Therefore, the universe is not infinitely old. Therefore, the universe had a beginning and before that beginning there was nothing. Something cannot come from nothing by any natural cause but since evolutionism is a philosophy of materialism, it has to claim the universe came from nothing by some natural cause, which contradicts the facts of science. Something cannot bring itself into existence. Therefore, something brought it into existence. What brought the universe into existence? It would have to be greater than the universe and be a sufficient cause to it. All things that came into existence were caused to exist. Therefore, logically, there must be a single uncaused cause that has always existed. That uncaused cause is God.
That’s not one bit “logical”
Nor is believing you are the arbiter of supreme truth.
It’s all in your head. :coolsmile: (OSHA approved eye protection)
The fact that the appearance of the universe from nothing has not been shown to be possible by any natural cause by real scientists shows that the evolutionists/atheists view is pie in the sky.Science is based on what we can observe and test, there is nothing to test from before the beginning of the universe as it was literally the creation of everything including space/time. So the choices simply aren't, either the universe was created from nothing or an intelligent agency performed a miracle. The fact is there is simply no evidence. And yet the facts of science confirm that the universe cannot be infinitely old or all useable energy would have been lost already (entropy). This has not occurred. Therefore, the universe is not infinitely old. Therefore, the universe had a beginning and before that beginning there was nothing. Something cannot come from nothing by any natural cause but since evolutionism is a philosophy of materialism, it has to claim the universe came from nothing by some natural cause, which contradicts the facts of science. Something cannot bring itself into existence. Therefore, something brought it into existence. What brought the universe into existence? It would have to be greater than the universe and be a sufficient cause to it. All things that came into existence were caused to exist. Therefore, logically, there must be a single uncaused cause that has always existed. That uncaused cause is God. Therefore 66-book bible and 6,000 year old earth, Noah had an Ark, Egyptian children died, God became a man inside of a virgin and died on a cross for everyone's sins. Donkey talks, John sees Babylon, Paul sees Jesus, etc.
Transmitted through the divine sight of Ian Anderson, aka Jethro Tull.
Therefore 66-book bible and 6,000 year old earth, Noah had an Ark, Egyptian children died, God became a man inside of a virgin and died on a cross for everyone's sins. Donkey talks, John sees Babylon, Paul sees Jesus, etc.Yeah, good point. Kind of boring, isn't it. I myself prefer something with real life and details. Folds within folds of harmonic cumulative poetry flowing down the stream of time, and all that.
Index: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 {1} Our Global Heat and Moisture Distribution Engine http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2016/01/earths-heat-moisture-engine.html Saturday, January 9, 2016 {2} Co-evolution of Minerals and Life | Dr Robert Hazen http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2016/01/2-coevolution-of-minerals-and-life.html Thursday, January 14, 2016 {3} Evolution of Carbon and our biosphere - Professor Hazen focuses on the element Carbon http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2016/01/3-evolution-carbon-biosphere-hazen.html Saturday, January 23, 2016 {4} Evolution - Considering Deep Time and a Couple Big Breaks http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2016/01/4-evolution-deeptime-moon-geomagnetic.html Saturday, February 6, 2016 {5a} The Most Beautiful Graph on Earth - A. Hessler http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2016/02/most-beautiful-graph-on-earth.html Sunday, February 7, 2016 {5b} Earth's Earliest Climate - By Angela Hessler http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2016/02/earths-earliest-climate-by-hessler.html Sunday, February 14, 2016 {6} Evolution of Earth's Atmosphere - easy version http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2016/02/6-evolution-earths-atmosphere-easy.html Thursday, February 18, 2016 {7} Our Global Heat and Moisture Distribution Engine, visualized http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2016/02/7-global-heat-moisture-distribution.html Friday, February 19, 2016 {8} Atmospheric Insulation Explained - appreciating our climate engine http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2016/02/8-atmospheric-insulation-explained.html
What happens if you apply the logic you just used against atheists, to your own argument for God? Apply it just before that point where you say "therefore, it must be supernatural", or right after that, where you that supernatural thing must the God of the Bible.The reason I believe He is the God of the Bible is it is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving divine origin, and He reveals He created everything and everyone. So you use one line of logic to determine the creator is the God the Bible, and a different line to determine that there must be a supernatural explanation for the universe. So, why use that line of logic to argue for God at all? You said that because we haven't given a natural cause for the universe, the "atheist view" is "pie in the sky". Not sure about those terms, but anyway. But you don't show how God caused the universe either, you just say because the Bible accurately predicted a bunch of stuff, therefore the Bible is accurate, and it says God did it. I think we're on equal ground here. Science has accurately predicted an awful lot of things. Using your logic, any other scientific prediction is also good. That's bad logic by the way, it actually just means that science has a good track record and therefore is worth considering. So, let's just say we're even, neither is more predictive than the other, what do you have? Science says there are forces we are just beginning to understand so let's continue to use are ability to discover to learn more. You say you can conclude God is real. I don't see how your claim is any stronger.
What happens if you apply the logic you just used against atheists, to your own argument for God? Apply it just before that point where you say "therefore, it must be supernatural", or right after that, where you that supernatural thing must the God of the Bible.The reason I believe He is the God of the Bible is it is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving divine origin, and He reveals He created everything and everyone. So you use one line of logic to determine the creator is the God the Bible, and a different line to determine that there must be a supernatural explanation for the universe. So, why use that line of logic to argue for God at all? You said that because we haven't given a natural cause for the universe, the "atheist view" is "pie in the sky". Not sure about those terms, but anyway. But you don't show how God caused the universe either, you just say because the Bible accurately predicted a bunch of stuff, therefore the Bible is accurate, and it says God did it. I think we're on equal ground here. Science has accurately predicted an awful lot of things. Using your logic, any other scientific prediction is also good. That's bad logic by the way, it actually just means that science has a good track record and therefore is worth considering. So, let's just say we're even, neither is more predictive than the other, what do you have? Science says there are forces we are just beginning to understand so let's continue to use are ability to discover to learn more. You say you can conclude God is real. I don't see how your claim is any stronger. We also know that many prophesies in the bible were written after the fact to "prove" that prophesies came true. A trick of psychics and other frauds the world over. Jean Dixon was a champion of this. She would say at the beginning if the year that some unnamed disaster would strike. Then at the end of the year she would point to a disaster that inevitably did occur and say, "I predicted that," and would name the disaster. Dupes believed her. Lois
Hey, Pahu, here’s that Bible verse you asked for a couple of days ago. I can’t believe you aren’t familiar with this.
“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, i]there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)
Italics added for emphasis. This is pretty clear. Jesus said he would return while some of the people hearing his words were still living. That did not happen, obviously. I’ve heard a lot of twisted logic trying to explain this away, but so far nothing cogent.
We also know that many prophesies in the bible were written after the fact to "prove" that prophesies came true. A trick of psychics and other frauds the world over. Jean Dixon was a champion of this. She would say at the beginning if the year that some unnamed disaster would strike. Then at the end of the year she would point to a disaster that inevitably did occur and say, "I predicted that," and would name the disaster. Dupes believed her. LoisYou are right about Dixon and others, but the Bible is in a totally different category. The Bible is completely unique among all religious books or ‘Scriptures’ in that it contains hundreds of specific future prophecies, unlike all others which may contain a few vague forecasts at best. Popular individuals such as Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and Jeane Dixon have also made many predictions, and a small percentage of their prophecies seem to have been fulfilled in a general sense, but most of them completely failed. In contrast, some of the Bible’s fulfilled prophecies are spectacular, even predicting specific events hundreds or thousands of years in advance to the exact day. Precisely fulfilled Biblical prophecy firmly establishes its credibility as a revelation from the Creator, who alone exists outside of time. In addition to unparalleled historical and documentary evidence, the Bible stands alone in this regard, and there is nothing else even remotely similar. Because it has been proven impeccably trustworthy for an abundance of very specific prophecies via recorded history, it can be trusted for events we cannot empirically verify, including those in the distant past or future. According to the Bible, fulfilled prophecy is one of the strongest proofs of its authenticity as a precisely accurate and unique revelation from God, in contrast to all false religions, belief systems, and individual cult leaders. Biblical prophecy illuminates exactly what our Creator said: “I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done" (Isa. 46:9b-10a). Two Amazing Examples of Fulfilled Bible Prophecy: The first example below is how the Bible predicted the exact day of Christ’s presentation of Himself as Messiah over 600 years in advance. The second example is how the 20th century end times rebirth of Israel was predicted over 2,500 years in advance by the Bible. There are hundreds of other excellent examples of fulfilled Bible prophecy, but the following are not as generally well known, and some may find these exceptionally incredible. Example #1: Jesus Christ’s presentation to Israel as Messiah and King predicted over 600 years in advance, to the exact day Here are the relevant Scriptures from the prophets Daniel and Nehemiah: Daniel 9:24-27 (literal translation) – written in 6th century B.C. “70 sevens are determined upon your people and upon your holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the King shall be 7 sevens, and 62 sevens: the plaza shall be built again, and the wall, even in troubled times. And after 62 sevens shall Messiah be violently put to death, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with sudden destruction, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with the majority for 1 seven: and in the middle of the seven he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolator." Nehemiah 2:1-8 (excerpts) – written in 5th century B.C. “And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the 20th year of Artaxerxes the king … and I said to the king, why should not my countenance be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers’ sepulchres, lies waste, and the gates thereof are consumed with fire? … If it please the king, and if your servant has found favour in your sight, that you would send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ sepulchres, that I may build it … Moreover I said to the king, If it please the king, let letters be given me to the governors beyond the river, that they may convey me over until I come into Judah. And a letter to Asaph the keeper of the king’s forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the palace … and for the wall of the city … And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me." Ancient Jewish Rabbinical writings in the Talmud, which are dated from the time between the prophet Daniel and the time of Jesus Christ, reveal that Hebrew scholars recognized Daniel’s prophecy as referring to the coming of the Messiah. This prophecy was written in the 6th century BC, and indicates there will be 69 (7 + 62) ‘sevens’ between the ‘going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem’ and the coming of ‘Messiah the Prince’. The starting date for the prophecy, the ‘going forth of the commandment’, is also referred to in the second reference above, Nehemiah 2:1-8, and is a date well known in history, since this command was issued by the King of Persia. This date is the 1st of Nisan (a Jewish month), 445 B.C., and this was indeed in the 20th year of the reign of Persian king Artaxerxes Longimanus. Now let’s do a little math, keeping in mind that a year in the Bible always refers to a Jewish year of 360 days (the prophecy was written in Babylon, which also used a 360-day year). 69 ‘sevens’ = 69×7 Jewish years = 483 Jewish years 483 Jewish years = 483×360 days = 173,880 days … so we need to add 173,880 days to the start date of 1 Nisan, 445 B.C. to see the end date of the prophecy. 173,880 days = 476 ‘modern’ (365.25 day) years + 21 days ‘left over’ so we take: Nisan 1, 445 B.C. + 1 year (because there is no year 0) + 476 years … and this comes out to March 14, 32 A.D. From this date, add 2 days (because there is no leap year every 400 years and we passed two of them), and add the 21 days we had ‘left over’. The result is Sunday, April 6, A.D. 32, ‘Palm Sunday’, the exact day of Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem, the only time he officially presented Himself to Israel as their Messiah! Moreover, Daniel predicted that after this time the Messiah would be violently murdered, but not for Himself (it was for us). [continue]