Theistic evolution, which at first glance seems a reasonable compromise with ‘science’, undermines the entire biblical worldview.Now, that I can agree with. My main point is that evolution does not equal atheism.
Pahu said, Pope John Paul II, in a recent statement,1 supported ‘theistic evolution’, the idea that God, over immense periods of time, used evolutionary processes to create all physical life-forms from a single organism. Numerous evangelical leaders have also made disturbing concessions to evolutionary belief,2 in spite of increasing scientific evidence against it.31) Present your scientific evidence which argues against evolution. Oh, I forgot, you reject science and theistic scholarship. Are you Jesus resurrected? 2) If you are a theist why should evolution "disturb" you, when we ourselves use it (on a small scale) in husbandry, such as selective breeding ? 3) Moreover, what makes you more *authoritative* than the Pope? I hate to speculate what *method* you use for your *declarations* You have just placed yourself outside any form of *knowledge*. You dismiss both Science and Biblical Scholarship. I am afraid you have adopted a position of *agnosticism*, IOW, you don't have a clue of either. Do you also reject the age of the universe, estimated to be some 13.7 billion years and the earth's age of some 4.5 billion years? Have you ever read any of the scientific study of the chemistry which makes the appearance of biomolecules on earth, and very likely elsewhere in the universe, a high probability if not *imperative*? I was going to show you a very interesting lecture and demonstration by Dr. Robert Hazen, showing how chemistry can easily demonstrate how evolution works. But from the tone of your post I won't waste my time, unless you specifically ask for it. But I am pretty sure you won't, because you have "made up your mind" on the matter of universal evolution and the likelihood of evolution of life elsewhere in the universe, especially on *average* rocky planets like earth.
What a tremendous ‘gig’ it would be to have Bill O’Reilly, Wendy Wright and Pahu on a panel, absolutely awesome.
Of course in order for Bill and Pahu to successfully defend the Roman Catholic Church’s shameful record over the last 100 years they would need to call upon the services of O. J. Simpson’s lawyer.
Pahu, By the way, if you really feel this is pseudoscience why didn't you post in that forum to begin with?My posts are based on the facts of science, not on a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method. I don't think you know what that word means. Do you know what the word means? {I do too know what the word means} >:( Pseudoscience is a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on the scientific method. Oh, and I thought Lausten was saying that you don't know what the word "science" means. :bug:
Well said Cuthbert, allow me to add some dramatic negative space, give it a chance to soak in.
But let me ask again to this new guy...I'm going to grant everything you say is true. There was a creator who was intelligent. Now what? Are we supposed to go to church now? Which church? Proving an ID has nothing to do with whether that ID is a christian, hindu, some religion from another planet, etc. or religion at all. And proving an ID says nothing about how "super" it is, or if it regards itself as a god at all and not just a super advanced being. PLUS proving ID says nothing about the ID's intentions. It still allowed science and the scientific method to exist on our little rock, and for it to be practiced by what I think you'd agree are earth's most advanced beings - humans. So even IF there's an ID I would think it would want us to continue to use science as our greatest gift it has given us. And if you make the statement that the ID is the christian god, then you've blown your cover. You weren't here to discuss ID, you were here to push your religion. So I ask, now what?
The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin.How do you know? Were you there? :smirk:
Pahu you danced around Cuthbert’s question. But, I’ll nibble on part of your response.
Intelligent design is referring to the one and only true, living, creator God who created everything and everyone including the laws of science and our minds capable of observing and discovering those laws ... The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin. In it God reveals His nature, our sinful nature and His plan for our salvation from the consequences of those sins. As to which church we should attend, I believe any church that teaches the truth will do. We can determine whether it is teaching the truth by comparing it with the Word of God.You jump from ID to the Bible, I thought they were sort of separate. Where does the Bible talk about intelligent design? And what's with this "sinful nature" where the hell does that suddenly come from? And what's with the salvation jazz, what does that have to do with understanding our physical planet and its life story? If any church is fine, why are some many churches in conflict with each other? Your story is too discombobulated to represent our reality. But, it is Your Story, this too will change.
That “our sinful nature and His plan for our salvation”
reminds me of a wonderful story about Emerson on his death bed, gasping his last when the Preacher stepped forward from the back of the room and knelt over Emerson.
"My child have you made peace with your Lord?" the preacher asks. Emerson's slit eyes widen and a last wave of strength seems to surge in his body as he pulled himself off his pillow. "I don't recall that we ever quarreled!" Before sinking back into his pillow and peacefully expiring.
Pahu - 29 April 2016 11:04 AM The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin.So did Einstein and Higgs and last but not least Nostradamus.
Latinising his name from Nostredame to Nostradamus. He was so encouraged by the almanac's success that he decided to write one or more annually. Taken together, they are known to have contained at least 6,338 propheciesWiki. We seem to have a lot of divine prophecies, except those prophesies which were/are incompatible with universal mathematics. And the bible is full of those also. Does that make it a *divine* scripture which is just wrong on some things? If any scripture was *divine*, how could it be wrong on some things? should we not strip the incorrect prophecies from divine scripture. After all it was written by men with very little knowledge of the universe. Would that not be blasphemy if we left in the incorrect (non-divine) human prophecies in a divine scripture? You may need to read this; http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
They are joined at the hip. Evolution provides atheism its justification. With NO scientific evidence, why do so many "scientists" embrace evolution? Following are some quotes from noted evolutionists, which will shed light on this subject: Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins wrote: "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist." (The Blind Watchmaker, page 6) H.G. Wells, author and historian, wrote: "If all animals and man evolved...then the entire historic fabric of Christianity—the story of the first sin and the reason for an atonement—collapsed like a house of cards." (The Outline of History) Aldous Huxley stated the matter succinctly in his article, “Confessions of a Professed Atheist": “I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning; consequently, assumed it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find reasons for this assumption. ... The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics; he is also concerned to prove there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do. ... For myself, as no doubt for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom" (1966, 3:19). The late Sir Julian Huxley, once the world's leading evolution "expert", and head of the United Nations Educational Scientific Cultural Organization (UNESCO), In answer to the question on the Merv Griffin show: ‘Why do people believe in evolution?" said, “The reason we accepted Darwinism even without proof, is because we didn’t want God to interfere with our sexual mores." George Wald, another prominent Evolutionist (a Harvard University biochemist and Nobel Laureate), wrote, "When it comes to the Origin of Life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation. We cannot accept that on philosophical grounds; therefore, we choose to believe the impossible: that life arose spontaneously by chance!" ("The Origin of Life," Scientific American, 191:48, May 1954). According to their own testimonies, the most prominent evolutionists believed and taught evolution, NOT because of any scientific evidence, but based upon their rejection of God.Theistic evolution, which at first glance seems a reasonable compromise with ‘science’, undermines the entire biblical worldview.Now, that I can agree with. My main point is that evolution does not equal atheism.
No. Where did you get the notion I reject science and theistic scholarship? I have already presented scientific evidence which argues against evolution, with more to come.Pahu said, Pope John Paul II, in a recent statement,1 supported ‘theistic evolution’, the idea that God, over immense periods of time, used evolutionary processes to create all physical life-forms from a single organism. Numerous evangelical leaders have also made disturbing concessions to evolutionary belief,2 in spite of increasing scientific evidence against it.31) Present your scientific evidence which argues against evolution. Oh, I forgot, you reject science and theistic scholarship. Are you Jesus resurrected?
2) If you are a theist why should evolution "disturb" you, when we ourselves use it (on a small scale) in husbandry, such as selective breeding ?Why do you believe selective breeding is evolution? Here are some facts:
3) Moreover, what makes you more *authoritative* than the Pope?When the Pope or any other person makes declaration in conflict with the Bible, they are wrong.
Do you also reject the age of the universe, estimated to be some 13.7 billion years and the earth's age of some 4.5 billion years?Yes, based on the facts of science, which agree with the Bible.
Have you ever read any of the scientific study of the chemistry which makes the appearance of biomolecules on earth, and very likely elsewhere in the universe, a high probability if not *imperative*?No.
I was going to show you a very interesting lecture and demonstration by Dr. Robert Hazen, showing how chemistry can easily demonstrate how evolution works. But from the tone of your post I won't waste my time, unless you specifically ask for it. But I am pretty sure you won't, because you have "made up your mind" on the matter of universal evolution and the likelihood of evolution of life elsewhere in the universe, especially on *average* rocky planets like earth.There is no evidence life exists anywhere else in the universe. Since science disproves evolution, as I have shown, the notion life could begin elsewhere is evidence free speculation.
The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin.How do you know? Were you there? :smirk: Nope, but the Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies: http://www.100prophecies.com/ http://www.raptureforums.com/BibleProphecy/101lastdays.cfm http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/bible-prophecies-fulfilled.htm http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-reliability-bible http://www.allabouttruth.org/Bible-Prophecy.htm
The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin.Jesus prophesied some of the people present with him would see him return to restore the Kingdom of Heaven®. The Bible also teaches us that we can know false prophets because their prophecies do not come true. So, according to your holy book Jesus was a false prophet.
In it God reveals His nature, our sinful nature and His plan for our salvation from the consequences of those sins.Yeah, about that. According to Biblical mythology Yahweh created Adam and Eve without the ability to discern right from wrong, then punished them and their descendants (that would be us) because A&E let a talking snake trick them into eating a magic apple that would give them the knowledge necessary to discern good from evil. For that they were kicked out of the garden and Yahweh condemned mankind to harsh lives and eternal torment. Yahweh is punishing us for his mistake. Seems to me any worthwhile god would be better at managing projects.
Pahu you danced around Cuthbert's question. But, I'll nibble on part of your response.Starting with Genesis 1:1-31 specifically and the rest of the Bible in general.Intelligent design is referring to the one and only true, living, creator God who created everything and everyone including the laws of science and our minds capable of observing and discovering those laws ... The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin. In it God reveals His nature, our sinful nature and His plan for our salvation from the consequences of those sins. As to which church we should attend, I believe any church that teaches the truth will do. We can determine whether it is teaching the truth by comparing it with the Word of God.You jump from ID to the Bible, I thought they were sort of separate. Where does the Bible talk about intelligent design?
And what's with this "sinful nature" where the hell does that suddenly come from?It does not come from hell. It comes from the Bible. For example in Genesis 6:5 "The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time." And after the Flood: Genesis 8:21 "...every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood." It seems the Flood had not improved human nature. And then the rest of the Bible refers to the sinful nature of unredeemed mankind.
And what's with the salvation jazz, what does that have to do with understanding our physical planet and its life story?Nothing, that I know of, but that was not the context.
If any church is fine, why are some many churches in conflict with each other?If you will remember, I said any church is fine that teaches the truth. Churches differ from each other on miner points or when they reject clear teachings of the Bible and rely on their own traditions and opinions. They are composed of flawed humans.
Your story is too discombobulated to represent our reality. But, it is Your Story, this too will change.What story?
What "wrong" prophesies?Pahu - 29 April 2016 11:04 AM The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin.So did Einstein and Higgs and last but not least Nostradamus.Latinising his name from Nostredame to Nostradamus. He was so encouraged by the almanac's success that he decided to write one or more annually. Taken together, they are known to have contained at least 6,338 propheciesWiki. We seem to have a lot of divine prophecies, except those prophesies which were/are incompatible with universal mathematics. And the bible is full of those also. Does that make it a *divine* scripture which is just wrong on some things? If any scripture was *divine*, how could it be wrong on some things? should we not strip the incorrect prophecies from divine scripture. After all it was written by men with very little knowledge of the universe. Would that not be blasphemy if we left in the incorrect (non-divine) human prophecies in a divine scripture? You may need to read this; http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin.Jesus prophesied some of the people present with him would see him return to restore the Kingdom of Heaven®. The Bible also teaches us that we can know false prophets because their prophecies do not come true. So, according to your holy book Jesus was a false prophet. Please provide chapter and verse.
In it God reveals His nature, our sinful nature and His plan for our salvation from the consequences of those sins.
Yeah, about that. According to Biblical mythology Yahweh created Adam and Eve without the ability to discern right from wrong, then punished them and their descendants (that would be us) because A&E let a talking snake trick them into eating a magic apple that would give them the knowledge necessary to discern good from evil. For that they were kicked out of the garden and Yahweh condemned mankind to harsh lives and eternal torment. Yahweh is punishing us for his mistake. Seems to me any worthwhile god would be better at managing projects.I believe the story of the Garden of Eden is a parable or allegory. If we accept the story of the Garden of Eden as literal we are faced with several problems. One is the fact that on the sixth day of creation week it is revealed that God created man male and female (Gen. 1:27). That would mean Adam and Eve were both created in one day. But according to the Eden story God first made Adam, then He had him name all the cattle, the fowl of the air and every beast of the field. Did he do all that in one day? Then finally God made Eve from Adam’s rib. Another problem with a literal interpretation is we are told about two special trees that have special powers; the tree of life, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Both of these trees have fruit that impart special powers. One imparts eternal life and the other special knowledge. Also, there is a special talking snake in this garden that is later identified as Satan (Rev. 9:12; 20:2). Nowhere else in all of Scripture is there any suggestion that eternal life or knowledge can be transmitted by eating magic fruit. On the contrary, in the case of eternal life, we are told throughout Scripture that we must repent of our sins and submit to God (Jesus Christ) as Lord. Scripture consistently teaches that forgiveness always follows repentance. If we accept the story of the Garden of Eden as literal, then we will have to say the scriptures contradict in the most important doctrine—salvation! Eternal life is attained through Christ, not by eating magic fruit from a magic tree. Neither is knowledge gained by eating magic fruit. Rather we attain knowledge by experience and study. Knowledge that cannot be attained in these ways can be attained by revelation. God has revealed knowledge about Himself, beginnings, our nature, our need for salvation and His plan for our salvation. None of this knowledge can be gained by eating fruit from a tree. Therefore, I believe the Garden of Eden story is an allegory containing symbols. I believe it is the symbolic story of the beginning of the human condition and our fall after Genesis 1:1. God the Son created the universe and the angels (John 1:1-3). I believe this is the story of Eden and its first inhabitants. The angels were created in the image of God. God is Spirit (John 4:24) and the angels were spirit. God has a mind and the angels had a mind. God has free will and the angels had free will. The angels began to go throughout creation experiencing, growing and developing character. This is the symbolism of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. They had direct access to eternal life represented by the tree of life. By living in obedience to God they would have life but disobedience would bring separation and death. All they had to do was choose good and avoid evil as God defined those terms. Some of the angels began to follow a course that was contrary to God’s will. They decided they could define good and evil. This is the symbology of eating the forbidden fruit. Instead of relying on God’s definition of good and evil they chose to ignore Him and make that decision for themselves. As they moved in this direction they began to drift farther and farther away from the good that God had revealed to them. They were following a path that seemed good to them but was in opposition to what God had revealed was good. “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death" (Pr. 14:12; 16:25). More and more they were following the spirit of rebellion. They were accusing God of being in error. They thought they were right and God was wrong. This spirit of rebellion and accusation is the definition of Satan, in my opinion. [continue]
In it God reveals His nature, our sinful nature and His plan for our salvation from the consequences of those sins.
Yeah, about that. According to Biblical mythology Yahweh created Adam and Eve without the ability to discern right from wrong, then punished them and their descendants (that would be us) because A&E let a talking snake trick them into eating a magic apple that would give them the knowledge necessary to discern good from evil. For that they were kicked out of the garden and Yahweh condemned mankind to harsh lives and eternal torment. Yahweh is punishing us for his mistake. Seems to me any worthwhile god would be better at managing projects.[continued] In the beginning of the Eden story, we are told that Adam was made from the dust of the ground. This sounds like the earth, but if the story is symbolic then certain earth symbols can be used symbolically. We are also told that God formed Eve from one of Adam’s ribs. I believe that when God first created the angels He created them without defining sexual attributes as Jesus suggested. Perhaps each angel possessed the spiritual equivalent of both male and female attributes in perfect balance. When God began His plan of salvation on earth He accentuated the male attribute in some and the female in others. The story of Eve coming from Adam’s rib is the story of this separation. Each individual still contains both sexual attributes, but in the male the female attribute is suppressed, and in the female the male attribute is suppressed. This is not found in Scripture in such detail, but Edgar Cayce (more about him later) made this claim in some of his readings and it makes sense to me. Jesus does seem to suggest this when He said; “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" (Mt. 22:30). God could not allow these angels to continue their disobedience throughout His creation. As a matter of fact, they had separated themselves from God—the “Tree of Life"—and were now under the death penalty as the law demanded. Since God is just He had every right to execute sentence against these rebellious angels immediately, but God is also merciful. The angels’ rebellion did not take God by surprise. Since He had given His angels free will, He did not know exactly what choices they would make, but He did know all the choices that were possible, including rebellion. It is not that God does not know everything there is to know about everyone and everything, but in His sovereignty He can choose to limit Himself. So He already had a plan ready in the event that path was chosen. Since death was the penalty for sin, that penalty could not be changed without destroying the law and bringing down all of creation, since creation depends on God’s law for its existence. But the angels could be saved from death if someone died in their place. Someone else had to receive their punishment for them. There was only one person in all of creation who could do such a thing and that was God Himself, the one who had created everything and everyone in the first place and had established the laws that made it all work. But just paying their penalty for them would not bring about repentance on the part of the disobedient angels. First, they had to understand that their way was wrong and God’s way was right—and repent. When the angels rebelled, they were making a statement. They were saying that God’s revelation of good and evil was incorrect and they took on themselves to define what was good and evil. This is the symbol of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden. When they began to decide for themselves what was good and evil they were eating forbidden fruit. They were saying their way was better than God’s revealed way. That attitude persists to this day among most of the people on earth, doesn’t it? And so God confined the rebellious angels to earth. When the disobedient angels arrived, they were furious at having their wings clipped, so to speak. They had literally been grabbed by the scruff of their necks and yanked out of their freewheeling roaming throughout God’s creation and confined to this tiny speck of dust called earth. I believe this is vividly and symbolically portrayed in Revelation 12:7-12. I believe that even though they could no longer roam freely throughout creation, they still retained some of their angelic powers. Giving full vent to their rage they literally raised hell here on earth to such an extent that they destroyed it. Volcanic dust and debris in the atmosphere was miles thick, cutting out all light. Genesis 1:2 describes the scene this way: “And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep." The word “was" in this verse is translated from the Hebrew word “hayah" which can also be translated “became" and has been in over 65 Bible verses from Genesis 2:7 through Ezekiel 36:4. After the disobedient angels had destroyed the earth with their tantrum, there was no more they could do. They had literally reached the end of their rope. Jesus may have had this period in mind in His parable of the prodigal son, when he reached the point where he was starving in the pigpen (Lk. 15:11-16). God allowed these angels to demonstrate to themselves as well as the other angels what happens when they go their own way outside of His will. I believe that when man first appeared on earth, he appeared in five different places as the five races. In Genesis 1:26,27 we learn: “And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them." The word “man" in this passage comes from the Hebrew word “adam," and means a human being, an individual or mankind. I believe the context here calls for the translation “mankind." In affect God told His fallen angels, “You say your way is better than My way. All right, we will see. I am giving you the world and all the raw material you need to experiment with your way. With your intelligence you have everything you need to create paradise or hell. We shall see how much better your way is." And so human history began on earth and mankind was given the physical version of the spiritual law that holds creation together—The Ten Commandments. After the angels had their tantrum on earth they were the spiritual equivalent of someone who has been terribly burned in a fire, or someone who has been severely injured in an accident. God’s six days of creation were spent re-creating the earth. On the sixth day He re-created (healed) His fallen angels in His image: mind, spirit, and will; but this time adding the physical equivalent of His image, providing a physical vehicle through which they could express themselves in a physical, three dimensional world. God then inserts a parable in a parenthesis in Genesis two and three giving a symbolic review of man’s beginning and fall and using two real people, Adam and Eve, on whom He focuses in the rest of Scripture. It is from these two that the chosen people came. This race was the vehicle for the writing of Scripture, which records for mankind God’s nature, our nature, our need for salvation, His plan of salvation and the history of His relationship with His chosen people and their neighbors. After the flood all wicked mankind was destroyed except the descendants of Adam and Eve through Noah and his family. Thus Eve is indeed the “mother of all living" since the wicked perished in the flood. [From Reincarnation in the Bible? http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/reincarnation-in-the-bible-dan-carlton/1112712362?ean=9781491811009]
The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin.Jesus prophesied some of the people present with him would see him return to restore the Kingdom of Heaven®. The Bible also teaches us that we can know false prophets because their prophecies do not come true. So, according to your holy book Jesus was a false prophet. Please provide chapter and verse. I thought you knew the Bible. The New Testament is full of passages referring to the then-current age as the "last hour." Jesus Christ his own self said he would return before the then-current generation passed away. I don't have time to look up chapter and verse right now, but I'd think as a Bible thumping Christian you'd be familiar with these teachings. You should spend more time examining the Bible objectively and less time reinforcing your preconceived notions.
I believe the story of the Garden of Eden is a parable or allegory.Doesn't matter if it is allegorical or literal, the problem is according to your mythology Yahweh created Adam and Eve without the ability to discern right from wrong, and he is now punishing billions of people because A&E made the wrong choice. He created imperfect beings and is punishing us all for being imperfect. If he existed Yahweh would be the most vile, evil mass murderer conceivable. Read the Old Testament. That god of yours has the manners and morals of a spoiled child. Edit: corrected a typo
The Bible is filled with hundreds of accurately fulfilled prophecies proving its divine origin.Jesus prophesied some of the people present with him would see him return to restore the Kingdom of Heaven®. The Bible also teaches us that we can know false prophets because their prophecies do not come true. So, according to your holy book Jesus was a false prophet. Please provide chapter and verse. I thought you knew the Bible. The New Testament is full of passages referring to the then-current age as the "last hour." Jesus Christ his own self said he would return before the then-current generation passed away. I don't have time to look up chapter and verse right now, but I'd think as a Bible thumping Christian you'd be familiar with these teachings. You should spend more time examining the Bible objectively and less time reinforcing your preconceived notions.
I believe the story of the Garden of Eden is a parable or allegory.Doesn't matter if it is allegorical or literal, the problem is according to your mythology Yahweh created Adam and Eve without the ability to discern right from wrong, and he is now punishing billions of people because A&E made the wrong choice. He created imperfect beings and is punishing us all for being imperfect. If he existed Yahweh would be the most vile, evil mass murderer conceivable. Read the Old Testament. That god of yours has the manners and morals of a soiled child. You cannot have a rational discussion with someone who holds irrational beliefs.
I’m taking a bet that we discover proof of life elsewhere in the universe before we discover proof of the existence of God.