Picking up where you left off. Claiming to have books, but no titles.
You might have something there
In terms of marketing, Christian religion had 2 big advantages over all concurrents:
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the idea of the resurrection in a full glorious hale body
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the idea of equal dignity of every one in front of god
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Please stay on subject. Didnât your mother ever teach you how to ask for something politely? Three books about the loving Jew if you are interested in the subject we can open a post and talk about it. My guess is that your religion depth is like most Americans. Praise Jesus, but when it comes right down to the brass, you really donât give a nickel about Jesus. Jesus is one of my heroes. But that has nothing to do with deity or crucifixion. Both are false items to me.
As far as religion advancing humanity, my interest is in the powerful family or group dynasties and how they shaped the Christian religion. Jesusâ part was mostly to bring the Christian branch of the Jewish religion back under King David rules under the Hellenistic umbrella. Under Jewish methods, there must be two leaders. John kind of lost his head and left Jesus it a tough spot. One Messiah from the Levite tribe to rule the temple and one from David tribe to rule the political issues. Jesus was from the David tribe.
Hello Morgan. My view points. In the beginning the Christian religion was a total mess, so it is best to work with timelines. We had the Jewish branch. Then the (Jesus/Gnostic) branch of Jewish Christianity. Then we had the Pauline Hellenistic Christianity and hundreds of other Christian startups. Bart Ehrman claims that it was worse back then than what we must deal with today. You know, Christian snake charmers to doomsday churches.
The Roman Emperors for the most part didnât treat the Jewish religion any different than the hundreds of other religions in the 180 kingdoms that they controlled. It looks to me like they gave Judah and Israel more slack and power than most kingdoms.
In 100 A.D., Romeâs population was 100 million. Rome was 1 million. Alexandria was 750,000. Egypt was est. of 8 million. Egypt and Greece had great civilizations with Alexandria being the best city. Some Roman emperors wanted to bring the empire more inline with Alexandria. Others wanted to be more like Rome.
Rome was a religious nightmare and Alexandria was smooth Gnostic Christianity with Jewish and Egyptian roots.
Then came the Antonine Plague and Plague of Cyprian and things changed. Pauline Christianity started to grow. This didnât go unnoticed by Constantine the Great who saw the opportunity to use Christianity as the state religion and he of course would be the next Messiah. Constantine call the Council of Nicaea in 325 not to put the bible together. Which was done in the Council of Chalcedon in 451. But to bring in line the Christian thinking for a universal (catholic) state religion.
Debate issue. Did the Flavians of Rome pour the foundation of Pauline Christianity? (Constantine/Flavian dynasty).
âglorious hale bodyâ Agreed. Number one seller.
âequal dignityâ Agreed. Number two seller.
Both Egyptian based. One follows Osiris and two follows Maâat. And three would be oneâs spirit following Ka.
Yes. She also taught me to pay attention in school. My feelings about Jesus are not the issue. The issue is, you write long posts with no real evidence.
Keep in mind you were on your last warning when you stopped posting before. That is still in affect.
Oh, you mean like religion! I guess you should close the sections about Religion then. Because there is no real evidence in the subject. You could name it, psychological research on how conspiracy theories evolved.
There is no real evidence that God exists. At least, no one has ever come here and presented it. If they did, they better have some evidence to back it up. So, funny, but not a response to my comment.
Why did you read the books? Religion is historical. It is documented, and reactions to the documents are documented. But you know that. So donât evade.
Good, thank you for your response.
There is no real evidence that God exists.
Disagree. You are correct. But take the next step and put the meaning of God in a timeline. God as the original meaning is nothing more than âknowledgeâ. And you agree that knowledge exists donât you. One of Jesusâ viewpoints is that god is in all of us. He was taken to court on that issue. I can look that up in the bible if you want. But you are aware of this I am sure. Remember, Jewish religion picked up a lot of Egyptian religion as its base. And Jesusâ Christian was still Jewish. Ra was the main god of Egypt. Ra means âknowledgeâ.
I can get into this more later. I got to go. The truck is arriving with food for the food giveaway. I help out, got to go setup. Will not get back till dark. Pick up tomorrow.
Youâve run this number before. The original meaning of God? Were you there 80,000 years ago? Ra means knowledge. You are stringing together unrelated and unsubstantiated thoughts. There is nowhere for this to go except to end up with long tirades about conspiracies.
Glad youâre doing something for your community.
I donât praise Jesus nor do I give a plug nickel about the story. That said, how and why is JC one of your heroes and how does that not have anything to do with deity or crucifixion? Isnât JC part of the trinity, the 3 in 1? If so, then how does the character not have a thing to do with deity?
Amen Ra! Is(is) Ra El. Itâs how I learned how to finally spell Israel. Even if one doesnât believe there is any relationship, it still taught me how not to reverse the a and the e.
What helped me is. âelâ = the, âraâ = god, âIsâ = land. the writing and reading was right to left. The Godâs Land. Israel.
Hello Mriana. Just got on to respond to Lausten and I got your post. Thanks for posting. Iâll try and quickly answer your questions. So, if my answers need more just let me know.
Q.1 JC the hero. Q.2 Deity or crucifixion. Q.3 Theology of the Trinity.
Q.1 JC the hero. - New religions are built upon old religions. Laws like religions originated in pre-history. Family dynasties controlled the religions and religions controlled the laws. Then the Tribes of Abraham started getting a democracy system. With good results. But Israel and Judah only had self-control for 110 years, so the democratic system didnât have much of a chance. Then the Greeks (Ptolemies) controlled Egypt and Israel. Followed by Rome controlling Greece. Causing the mixing of laws and religion. JC being a politician was setting up to govern Israel. That didnât work out so well. A Jewish philosopher (Philo of Alexandria) did some studies of what JC was doing on the democratic system which would have removed power of the temple to change the interpretation of the laws. The rest I have covered before but would be glad to bring it up again if you want. Europe picked up on Philoâs work and changed Europe. And the system really got fully tried by the creation of the Supreme Court here in America. Thatâs why JC is my hero.
Now, that said. I have watched James Tabor (Biblical scholar and Professor of Ancient Judaism and Early Christianity) in interviews also call Jesus a politician. In his book, The Jesus Dynasty. Tabor says the Jesusâs movement was a religious/spiritual and political movement. Also, The Secret Legacy of Jesus by Jeffrey Butz. Shows how the true teachings of Jesus were passed down through the centuries and shaped the vision of the Founding Fathers.
Q.2 Deity or crucifixion. I think we agree on taking care of our families the best that we can. And my family is very religious. I can see the day coming when the grandchildren and great grandchildren are not going to be religious. One of the reasons I try and understand religion is to be ready and able to answer the questions in a truthful and correct way if that time should come.
It took about 400 years for Christianity the way we know it to be put together. And the meaning of some of the words are still changing today. Scholarsâ viewpoints seem to be changing with very little resistance. Paul never met Jesus. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John probably never met Jesus either.
I do not believe in deities or the crucifixion.
A key point is that there are two pathways here. Theological and Historical terms. There are really no facts in the Theological pathway that cannot be debated for decades. Donât go there. Try and stay on the Historical viewpoints. There are not always facts but there are concepts. And history is our inheritance. Even if there is a lot of disagreement between scholars, there seems to be a lot of respect between them. Are we going to ever get the correct answers? At first, I didnât think so. Now I do.
Q.3 Theology of the Trinity.
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
No theologian in the first three Christian centuries was a trinitarian in the sense of a believing that the one God is tripersonal, containing equally divine â
Trinity started coming around in the third century by Tertullian in line with the Stoic philosophy or Hellenistic philosophy. The start of Trinity is tough to get a handle on. First you have Philo of Alexanderia writing the genesis for the NT. Which had all the trinity stuff in it. Philo was Gnostic. And the Gnostic genesis was rejected for the Pauline Christianity. But some of the Gnostic writing were used to create the Universal Christianity (Catholic Christianity).
Eusebius of Nicomedia was an Arian priest who baptized Constantine, (the guy who had the Catholic Christianity put together). And Eusebius was against the Trinity altogether.
The thinking that makes up the structure of the Trinity can be followed back to Aristotle who studied under Plato. Plato thinking was mixed with the Egyptian Gnostic Monad and pleroma â basically the region of God that had to do with light. Then you got the Aeons to deal with. By the time Rome tried to get all the Christian thinking on the same page there was a lot of resistance. The Roman Empire was growing so big at the time that they had an Eastern and Western Emperor. And the Emperorâ had different religious beliefs on how Christianity should be put together as the state religion.
The Trinity ended up being handled in a political way. Still a problem that never got fixed to everyoneâs satisfaction.
Interesting. Youâre the first person Iâve met who said all that stuff and called him your hero. Most people donât realize half the stuff you said. Although I donât know if Iâd called him a politician, he didnât succeed and end up on a stauros for it.
That book might show that, but Bible has been translated and even misinterpreted, even interpreted in the way the King wanted it interpreted so many times it doesnât say the same thing as it does in Greek.
Religion can only answer questions of belief and faith. I cannot answer real life questions that deal with science, for example.
That and Paul only wrote about eight books attributed to him, the rest that are attributed to him were not written by him. Also, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were not written by people with those names.
You may not believe JC or any other deity was crucified, but many Xians do. Not only that, a stauros was a popular means of execution and torture during the time and setting of the JC story. So makes sense that the writers of the time would write their dying and rising god stories in such a way.
The Bible is not a historical book. The alleged history in the Bible is not accurate and much of it is not real history.
If there were any in the Bible.
The Bible does not have my inheritance nor anyone elseâs.
Sadly, there are no correct answers in the Bible except the ones you want to be correct.
Maybe not, but they do now.
Not if you have a priest explain it like water, which exist as ice and vapor also. However, itâs not what I believe. IMHO, God the Father committed murder suicide, if it were real. A very abusive father and a son who took because it was, well his dad.
Yes, but it is still made up of other mythologies, especially Paganism.
Oh but you canât deny the God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit or youâre heretic.
Not quite. El is the singular of Elohim, which means God. Ra is God and Is is as I insinuated with Is[is], Isis. Or in the correct order, it is Isis, Ra, El, to spell it that is. All three are gods and BTW, the reason why you see in Elohim in the Hebrew text (Old Testament) is because the Jews were at one time Polytheistic until they became monotheistic, thus the plural.
I thought Gnosis meant Knowledge. Agnostic means you donât know.
I donât think you quite understand that statement. It is symbolic.
It shall always be a problem! Religion is not founded on fact.
It is therefore open to interpretation. Witness the rise and fall of some 3000 gods and their associated âmythologyâ.
The real problem is that religions are exclusive of other religions and do not tolerate âcompetingâ belief systems. Apostates are considered âevilâ and must be converted or subjugated.
That is the morbid irony. A philosophy (belief system) that must be rigidly enforced or the âphilosophical offenderâ be condemned to hell.
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Third attempt to reply. Not use to the format yet. Hope you had a nice Holladay and gained a couple of pounds.
The books. Tried to have some fun. You miss the part about the âLoving Jewâ. the loving Jew, a Jewish philosopher had a lot to do with how the bible turned out. Philo, means âloveâ. Judaeus means âJewishâ, the loving Jew, his real name. Book titles, and there are many books, would be Philo of Alexandria. So, the guy has three names. Kind of like Jesus, having several titles. Philo family was Greek. And of course, one of the main Greek gods was a woman of love. And Philo was born when Jesus was alive, and his family knew the Jesus family. Philo was working on Genesis when Peter, another family friend, was called to Rome to be the founder of the Church.
I picked 3 books to start with. Hopes are I donât have to get 10 more. I just donât have the time. âOn the Creation of the Cosmos according to Mosesâ, âThe Writing of Philo of Alexandriaâ, and âThe Works of Philoâ. What I am hoping to get out to this is Common Factors for the timeline. And I guess more proof for myself that the reason the Trinity is not understood is because the Genesis of the NT never got added. And for a good reason.
Got to run to town right now. Iâm a pollster for the voting and the State is have a pow-wow this morning and I have to be there.
I donât usually open up old threads, but whatâs a glorious hale body. I find one reference from 1909.