I didn’t write it offline at all. I typed it in the Fast Reply box, Occam.
@DarronS, Straw man is a logical fallacy I have trouble understanding.
First, I see that Darron solved the problem by quoting it while I was writing my post. And that’s weird, C.E., because I always use Fast Reply and never have that happen. I’ll have to figure out what’s going on with that formatting. Now, I’ll go back, read your post (Darron’s quote) and respond.
Occam
When you are having a discussion, and the other person “quotes” you with an extreme version of a statement you made or possibly didn’t even make, then uses that (indefensible) quote to argue against, his/her argument will come across as very strong to the audience. However, s/he’s not really arguing against your position, but rather a “straw man” s/he set up as a trick to make your position look weak. One has to be careful not to try to defend against his/her argument, but rather, immediately point out that that isn’t what you said.
In this case, an attendee may say something like, “Men always want us to cook their meals, but they never contribute to the housework.” The tricky words here are “always” and “never” and the assumed “All” at the beginning. Now they can continue with how disgusting males are to do those things.
One approach is to innocently ask, “Do ALL men do that?” as soon as they admit that they don’t, then one has a much more rational basis for discussion, preferably with more questions until they have to focus on exactly what they don’t like.
Occam
There are some MeetUp.com meet ups near me, and one of them is Feminist Workshop. I want to go, because I think I have a pretty good perspective on the subject of feminism, genderistic topology and societal pressures. But, this group is comprised almost exclusively of women, which is to be expected. But, I feel guilty because I just suspect that they will just wind up thinking they're talking about equality, but really are talking about special treatment. An example is saying they still expect the man to pay for meals and do yard work because they're guys, but they don't want any genderistic expectations placed on them. Now, I understand the hypocrisy that I'm flirting with here by presuming this is what I'd be dealing with, it's just that that's how It tends to go when talking feminism with women; they tend to want chivalry more than feminism. I'd likely bring a notebook and make a few columns: Hypocrisies, ad hominem, post hoc ergo proctor hoc, circular rationality. I'd see if what they were saying fell into these columns of rational disapproriation. Is this wrong of me? I know I wont know if I'm right until I actually go, but I can't help but come to this preconception.It sounds like aggravation that a guy like you doesn't need, you shouldn't go, man.
There are some MeetUp.com meet ups near me, and one of them is Feminist Workshop. I want to go, because I think I have a pretty good perspective on the subject of feminism, genderistic topology and societal pressures. But, this group is comprised almost exclusively of women, which is to be expected. But, I feel guilty because I just suspect that they will just wind up thinking they're talking about equality, but really are talking about special treatment. An example is saying they still expect the man to pay for meals and do yard work because they're guys, but they don't want any genderistic expectations placed on them. Now, I understand the hypocrisy that I'm flirting with here by presuming this is what I'd be dealing with, it's just that that's how It tends to go when talking feminism with women; they tend to want chivalry more than feminism. I'd likely bring a notebook and make a few columns: Hypocrisies, ad hominem, post hoc ergo proctor hoc, circular rationality. I'd see if what they were saying fell into these columns of rational disapproriation. Is this wrong of me? I know I wont know if I'm right until I actually go, but I can't help but come to this preconception.I don't think you grasp the idea of feminism, Callisto. It doesn't mean that women want to stop being feminine, it just means they don't necessarily want to be shoved into a pigeonholed stereotype just because they're female. It's like... as a man living in the South, I'm "supposed" to like hunting and fishing and sports, I'm "supposed" to be a mechanic. In reality I don't like an of those things and I can barely figure out how to change the spark plugs on my lawn mower. Maybe you should go, at least once, to see what it's like. Take your girlfriend with you. :) BTW I find your objection ironic considering you use a female picture as your avatar. And Callisto is a female name. That led me to assume you were a woman at first. :)