Noah' Flood - Scriptural, Scientific or Historical

Religion and Secularism
21

@ Roy,

You need to accept the fact that humans are not divine creatures and children of the Gods. Humans are mammals which evolved not from apes but from a “common ancestor” of the taxon Hominidae

Hominidae

The Hominidae (/hɒˈmɪnɪdiː/), whose members are known as great apes[note 1] or hominids (/ˈhɒmɪnɪdz/), are a axonomic family of primates that includes eight extant species in four genera: Pongo, the Bornean, Sumatran and Tapanuli orangutan; Gorilla, the eastern and western gorilla; Pan, the common chimpanzee and the bonobo; and Homo, of whom only modern humans remain, with several extinct relatives (e.g., the Neanderthal) and ancestors, such as Homo erectus.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae

Why do you refuse to believe Natural History (science) and persist in believing Mythology (self proclaimed “divinely inspired” voices)?

The Bible is NOT a scientific instrument. It is at best a metaphorical account of human spirituality. But has no basis in fact. This has been proven.

Do you believe there is something shameful in admitting our shared common ancestry with the great apes?

You know what is shameful?

Random Verse:

And king Solomon offered a sacrifice of twenty and two thousand oxen, and an hundred and twenty thousand sheep. - 2 Chronicles 7:5
https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

For what purpose? To appease God? That is pretty barbaric, no? He could have fed a lot of poor people with that kind of sacrifice.

 

22

I have thoroughly refuted the silly ideas that we evolved from some unknown, common ancestor of Chimps and Humans no matter what Godless men tell us about ERVs.

The sons of God (Prehistoric man), evolved from a common ancestor of Apes and that is WHY we have DNA in our bodies, which makes some ignorant scientists come to the False Notion that humans evolved from the same ancestor as Apes.

We did NOT evolve from Apes. Prehistoric man evolved the Human intelligence of Adam when we married and produced children with Noah’s grandsons. Humans did NOT evolve, but instead, prehistoric man evolved the human intelligence of Adam from Noah’s descendants. That is WHY the humans on this Planet have the DNA of prehistoric people and the human intelligence of Adam, who was never on this Planet.

God set a Trap, a Snare, which catches these False Teachers in their evil misuse of our children. The Snare is the Flood. All-knowing Evols refuse to believe that humans came from the world of Adam which was totally destroyed in the flood. It’s the argument in the latter days, between Christians and Scoffers. ll Peter 3:3-7

 

23

In other words, inside your own unbelieving body, you have the DNA of Mt. Eve…AND…the human intelligence of Adam. You, as a Species, inherited your DNA long BEFORE you evolved into a human being. Mt. Eve was NOT human. She did NOT descend from Adam. Did she?

You inherited Adam’s superior intelligence from Adam, in the SAME way you got your DNA from Mt. Eve. The foolish Theory of Evolution wants you to believe the Fairy Tale that mindless Nature and long periods of time and uncounted mutations changed you into a Human. What Tripe. What foolishness.

The evidence that you descended from Adam, the first human, is overwhelming since NO Ape and NO other creature on the face of this Earth is able to carry on a conversion with either one of us, and NONE of them posts. That is because mindless Nature does NOT create Human intelligence in Apes, as some mindless Evols insist. You get it from your parents and NO Ape has EVER evolved into a human. That’s God’s Truth.

BTW, God’s Truth is the ONE Truth. God’s Truth MUST agree in every way with every discovery of science and history, or it is NOT God’s Truth. God’s Truth exposes the biggest False assumption, in Science today, and that is the False Theory of Evolution. Evolution does not agree with scripture NOR history. That’s because evolution is a False Theory. What is referred to as MicroEvolution is nothing but Adaptation within kinds. Today’s Science just doesn’t know the difference in His kinds.

24

You just can’t handle being an animal related to another ape. I feel sorry for you.

25

@Write4U I’ve been trying to tell him the same thing you are telling, but he’s too deluded to comprehend real science. He’s a lost cause. IMHO it would be best if we could ignore him. I do feel sorry for him though.

26

My experience is that it’s mostly Evols who complain about everything in order to change the subject away from their ignorance of our true origins. Are you another of those people who have no idea of how or when we magically evolved from Ape to Human intelligence? If so, I’ll get ready to read more of your complaints.

BTW, The Evols here has been unable to come up with a human city older than those built by Noah’s great-grandsons. Does anybody here have ANY data which might explain WHY there were NO human cities until Noah arrived? And NO farming, and NO math nor ANY of the traits of modern humans? Could it be because there were NO humans on this Planet until Noah arrived some 11k years ago?

Can somebody help these poor Evols here for I believe they are losing so badly? God has refuted their beloved Theory of Evolution, and all they can seem to do about it is WHINE. Can SOMEBODY provide any assistance for them? Show us the data, and give some needed help to put Darwin back where he belongs. Will you help or will you hide from God’s Truth?

27

Humans did NOT share a common ancestor with Apes. Humans inherited the DNA of prehistoric mankind, who DID evolve along with Apes after God created “every living creature that moveth” from the water on the 5th Day. Gen. 1:21

IOW, Prehistoric mankind evolved into today’s Humans but Humans did NOT evolve from prehistoric mankind.

Our common ancestor was Adam, the first Human. Prehistoric mankind was NOT human no matter how many Evols classify him as such. This is because prehistoric man did NOT descend from Adam.

Adam was a Special Creation formed with a higher intelligence level than any other creature who will ever live. He was made billions of years before any creature which evolved from the water. This means that the entire Theory of Evolution is compromised and shown to be False since it has NOT taken into account God’s Holy Word in Genesis.

Refute God’s Truth if you think you can. I think any of you, like all Evols, will find it impossible to prove that YOU know more than God. What you will learn is that God’s Holy Word is much more powerful than any man’s flawed theory. So, proceed with the knowledge that your view will soon be defeated, by God’s Truth, the unchanging Truth.

28

@ Roy

I have posted this before, but I’ll keep showing it until you will actually look at it and read the scientific research on how humans evolved a larger brain due to a beneficial chromosome mutation and thereby split off from our common ancestor of the other great apes.

If you do not read any real scientific data and continue to proselytize, I’ll put you on ignore and won’t bother to read your post either. Deal?

Here is your proof of a beneficial genetic mutation that split Homo Sapiens from the older hominid family. The other great apes were well adapted to survive in their tree environment and evolved to what we observe today in the forests.

Humans, due to their newly acquired larger brains climbed down from the trees, multiplied and began to migrate and evolved to what we see what we see today.

Introduction:

All great apes apart from man have 24 pairs of chromosomes. There is therefore a hypothesis that the common ancestor of all great apes had 24 pairs of chromosomes and that the fusion of two of the ancestor's chromosomes created chromosome 2 in humans. The evidence for this hypothesis is very strong.
The Evidence:
Evidence for fusing of two ancestral chromosomes to create human chromosome 2 and where there has been no fusion in other Great Apes is:

  1. The analogous chromosomes (2p and 2q) in the non-human great apes can be shown, when laid end to end, to create an identical banding structure to the human chromosome 2. (1)

  2. The remains of the sequence that the chromosome has on its ends (the telomere) is found in the middle of human chromosome 2 where the ancestral chromosomes fused. (2)

  3. the detail of this region (pre-telomeric sequence, telomeric sequence, reversed telomeric sequence, pre-telomeric sequence) is exactly what we would expect from a fusion. (3)

  4. this telomeric region is exactly where one would expect to find it if a fusion had occurred in the middle of human chromosome 2.

  5. the centromere of human chromosome 2 lines up with the chimp chromosome 2p chromosomal centromere.

  6. At the place where we would expect it on the human chromosome we find the remnants of the chimp 2q centromere (4).

Not only is this strong evidence for a fusion event, but it is also strong evidence for common ancestry; in fact, it is hard to explain by any other mechanism.


Do you see?

Let us re-iterate what we find on human chromosome 2. Its centromere is at the same place as the chimpanzee chromosome 2p as determined by sequence similarity. Even more telling is the fact that on the 2q arm of the human chromosome 2 is the unmistakable remains of the original chromosome centromere of the common ancestor of human and chimp 2q chromosome, at the same position as the chimp 2q centromere (this structure in humans no longer acts as a centromere for chromosome 2.
Conclusion
The evidence that human chromosome 2 is a fusion of two of the common ancestor's chromosomes is overwhelming.
http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm

 

29
Roy said,

Refute God’s Truth if you think you can. I think any of you, like all Evols, will find it impossible to prove that YOU know more than God. What you will learn is that God’s Holy Word is much more powerful than any man’s flawed theory. So, proceed with the knowledge that your view will soon be defeated, by God’s Truth, the unchanging Truth.


That is a false argument.

First of all, God’s Holy Word is man’s flawed theory and Evols will find it easy to prove that we know more than the Bible, which professes but does not prove the existence of a God to begin with, let alone what God is supposed to have done.

I think any of you, like all Fundies, will find it impossible to prove that YOU know more than Science, which only deals with observed and verified facts, not anecdotal and metaphorical mythology.

You do not even present a coherent argument other than “the Bible says so it must be true”. Not!

30
Science has refused to believe God and many scientists live in darkness and ignorance because of it.
There's your problem right there. Science has nothing whatsoever to say about God, for or against. Science is not anti-God. In fact, many scientists are Christians. Science itself is a method of discovery and cannot "believe" anything.

For millennia people used gods to answer the questions they posed. They meandered from age to age, making meager progress technologically. Then science came along and we started using it to answer questions. Within a few centuries technological advancements leapt forward. Once electricity was discovered the rate of discovery increased exponentially. We now have robots on Mars and probes in interstellar space, something completely unthinkable even just 100 years ago. Yet recorded history covers 5,000 years. In less than 100 years technology has advanced more than in the last 5,000 years combined. I would say that science has a proven track record of success.

Science is not anti-God. Science does not say there are no gods. It simply says that the answers you want just aren’t real. And it doesn’t say that because science hates God. It says that because that’s what the evidence shows. Science is impartial. You are not.

And the firmament never actually existed. It was an early explanation for why it rained and why stars in the heavens moved at different rates. It was nothing more than they attempt to explain what they saw. There is not even anything in the Bible which insists that this was absolutely a real thing and not just a, by today’s standards, really stupid explanation for how the world works.

31
Write4U said:

I have posted this before, but I’ll keep showing it until you will actually look at it and read the scientific research on how humans evolved a larger brain due to a beneficial chromosome mutation and thereby split off from our common ancestor of the other great apes.

If you do not read any real scientific data and continue to proselytize, I’ll put you on ignore and won’t bother to read your post either. Deal?

Here is your proof of a beneficial genetic mutation that split Homo Sapiens from the older hominid family. The other great apes were well adapted to survive in their tree environment and evolved to what we observe today in the forests.

Humans, due to their newly acquired larger brains climbed down from the trees, multiplied and began to migrate and evolved to what we see what we see today.


@Write4U

Then tell us How and When mindless nature changed Apes into humans and WHY there are NO traits of modern humans until some 10k years ago when the first Farmers arrived, in the mountains of Ararat.

Since ALL natural animals live in the wild and chase other creatures and sleep in whatever hole they can find, tell us WHY man waited for billions/millions of years until Noah arrived some 11k years ago before he settled down, built himself a house, and planted something to eat so he wouldn’t have to live like an animal anymore?

That’s NOT my Truth. It’s in Scripture. It’s God’s Holy Word, whether you believe it or not. Noah was the FIRST human to step foot on this Earth.

You either have human intelligence or you do not. ALL humans on Earth today have inherited the human intelligence of Adam because Noah’s grandsons had NO other humans to marry. They married and produced offspring with the descendants of the sons of God (Prehistoric Mankind) who was created and brought forth from the water, beginning some 3.7 Billion years ago. Cain did the SAME on the first world which was destroyed in the Flood.

That is How and When prehistoric man evolved human intelligence. We inherited it from Adam, sexually and intellectually. It’s the ONLY way to get it since you MUST be descended from Adam, and NOT evolved from some Ape, which is NOT human and NEVER will be.

Once again, read my lips … We did NOT evolve from Apes. Prehistoric Mankind evolved the Human intelligence of Adam when we married and produced children with Noah’s grandsons. Humans did NOT evolve, but instead, prehistoric man evolved the human intelligence of Adam from Noah’s descendants. That is WHY the humans on this Planet have the DNA of prehistoric people and the human intelligence of Adam, who was never on this Planet.

 

32
Roy said,

Then tell us How and When mindless nature changed Apes into humans and WHY there are NO traits of modern humans until some 10k years ago when the first Farmers arrived, in the mountains of Ararat.


Oh man, did you ever go to school?

a) Apes are not mindless. Apes are very smart.

b) Apes did not change into humans. Apes and humans had a common ancestor.

c) What has Ararat got to do with “early humans”? There is plenty of fossil evidence of “early” humans going back as far as 100,000 years ago.

An international team of 60 scientists announced Thursday they have found the fossilized remains of a previously undiscovered species of human ancestors in South Africa.
https://dailycaller.com/2015/09/10/new-species-of-early-humans-ancestors-discovered-in-south-africa/

If you continue to hold up your bible and say “this book (written by sheep herders) explains everything and I have no need to study anything else”, you will never experience “enlightenment” and will forever be cursed with a false understanding of the universe and the “origin of species”.

It won’t kill you, but it won’t improve your understanding of how things work either. You don’t know what you’re missing!

33

There are also plenty of studies where other apes make and use tools, learn language, show emotions (like mourning their dead), and many other cognitive things the human ape does.

@write4U I really hope you read the study I posted. I truly feel Roy suffers from cognitive inflexibility due pTBI of some sort or stunted cognitive growth affecting his prefrontal cortex.

34

Ahhhh…had not make the connection…ty.

Can we conclude that “indoctrination” is tantamount to inflicting trauma to the psyche residing in the prefrontal cortex.

Those who have experienced hardship and suffering often experience lasting trauma from the experience. Traumatic events can fundamentally change not only victims' way of life, but also their psychological outlook. This is equally true for natural disasters such as earthquakes and floods as it is for man-made catastrophes of terrorism and war.

Man-made trauma, however, is often more difficult to deal with, because frequently the perpetrators still live in close proximity to victims – thereby providing constant reminders of the past, as well as the threat of further incidents. Even if the immediate source of the trauma is removed, time does not necessarily heal all wounds. The survivor may, in fact, continue to suffer, to appear “frozen in time.” With conflict remaining an unfortunately common reality for many, techniques have emerged to help trauma victims interpret and heal from their experience.


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Can we conclude that “indoctrination” is tantamount to inflicting trauma to the psyche residing in the prefrontal cortex.

@Write4U Yes. Yes we can. There’s a study that researches exactly that too. Just can’t find it currently.

36

This is actually a very common personality for fundamentalist Christians, in my experience. The really science-denier type who don’t accept even the things which are common sense or hold beliefs which obvious reality says are wrong. I addressed this in my very first wall post, actually. The one nobody read or liked, unfortunately. It was quite long.

Essentially, from my own experience, this type of personality is a way of combating subconscious doubt which the believer simply cannot examine for themselves without risking eternal damnation. Jesus is coming back any second now, after all, and if he finds you doubting (or spanking it) when he gets here you go to Hell! Not dealing with this doubt will not make it go away. Yet you can’t acknowledge it or you burn. So it grows. This is frustrating. Eventually you either deal with it (without confronting it) or you become angrier and angrier and are forced to deal with it.

One way of dealing with it is to convert someone else. Since you can’t honestly examine your beliefs without risking damnation you get someone else to examine them for you. If they are convinced, if you convert them, then your beliefs are validated because you got a second opinion, that person agreed and the doubt is lessened.

The other way is a fight. You fight “the devil” or whatever approximation you can get to. Get angry enough and this is going to happen whether you want it to or not. If your beliefs are strong enough and so unrealistic that a “normal” brain could not hold them, and you are unable to convert anyone, this one is inevitable. You go to the atheist forum, you go to your work acquaintance you don’t mind alienating, you go to someone you don’t really care about and you tell them “how it is”. You might get lucky and convert someone. More likely you’re going to get a good fight, do your part fighting “the devil” and vent some of that frustration. If they don’t accept it’s because they’re stupid or evil in some way. If you “win” the fight, usually determined by being a big enough dick that the other person walks way (banning works), you have successfully fought evil and can enjoy your victory for a while instead of obsessing on the growing doubt. They just LOVE to quote the first half of Psalms 14:1 to you, though I don’t think that they even know there’s a second half to it and THAT half would actually add to their doubt as it couldn’t possibly be true.

Keep in mind that this is from my own experience, not a psychoanalysis of all people everywhere. As Lausten is fond of pointing out (and rightly so), what I have determined of my own mind does not necessarily apply to everyone.