Understanding Genesis 1&2 "The Beginning."

Religion and Secularism
1

There is NOT a single planet existed BEFORE the first Day, Gen 1:1-5 What existed was earth/ground without form and void (Dust), which was used to make Adam’s firmament on the 2nd Day Gen 1:6-8 and Adam’s Earth on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:10

Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God Created the heaven (Hebrew - Air) and the Earth (Hebrew -Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

In fact, God doesn’t tell us exactly in the Bible that He made everything from nothing (ex-nihilo). Again, here’s what He told us which agrees with Albert Einstein’s discoveries two thousand years later:

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Albert Einstein learned that energy and matter are opposite sides of the same coin. God simply flipped energy into matter in the beginning - but without form and void. God knew that in order for Death to be defeated, He would have to send his Son into our physical world to give light/life and to mold the FORMLESS Earth / Ground (Dust)… and destroy the darkness/death which was upon everything God had created APART from his invisible spiritual realm.

The emergence of Light was when YHWH, the Son of God, came forth or begotten from the invisible Spirit of God into the physical world when He commanded and spoke the first Word in the beginning and said… Let there be light; and there was light. (Gen 1:3) before anything is made that was made… before the world was.

WHERE did this invisible energy come from. Based on the cited Scripture, below, is the answer for it tells us where God lives:

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Then, on the 3rd Day, YHWH or Jesus, the Son of God, took some of this physical matters - air, dust, and water - and flipped it again into Energy, at the Big Bang, which cooled and became our Cosmos. That’s the way the Supreme Intelligence of Creation makes our worlds.

God Bless

2

Genesis 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God’s 6 Creative Days. That’s why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts Gen 1 & 2 agree totally and in detail.

Since God sees the end from the beginning, Isa 46:10 He wrote the complete HISTORY of His Seven Days in the first 34 verses of Genesis. At Gen 2:4 the narrative RETURNS to the details of the THIRD Day.

[Isa 46:10 KJV] 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

In other words, the first 34 verses of Genesis tell us the ENTIRE History of God’s 7 Days of Creation, including events that will NOT happen until AFTER Jesus returns to this Planet. Gen 1:28-31.

Here’s a brief summary of how I read the first five verses of the Book of Genesis - “The Beginning”:

Genesis 1:1 Is a Preface or Summary - The Story of the Beginning of the Physical Worlds.
Genesis 1:2 Tells us the condition of the deep - empty/void - before the making of our physical world.
Genesis 1:3 The bringing forth of the LIGHT before anything is made that was made… before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 The division of light from darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 The evening and the morning the first day of Genesis.

As you can see, based on the above perspective of the cited Scripture, our physical heaven and earth that we know of today is still formless and void on the 1st Day of Genesis / Creation. The 1st formation of the firmament of Heaven took place on the 2nd Day - Gen 1:6-8. The Earth was formed/made on the 3rd Day.

Your thought……

God bless

3
Roy said,

There is NOT a single planet existed BEFORE the first Day, Gen 1:1-5 What existed was earth/ground without form and void (Dust), which was used to make Adam’s firmament on the 2nd Day Gen 1:6-8 and Adam’s Earth on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:10


You do realize that this sentence has about three contradictory statements? I would suggest reading the definitions of some of the terms you used to describe the process of Biblical Genesis.

In biblical cosmology, the firmament is the vast solid dome created by God on the second day to divide the primal sea (called tehom) into upper and lower portions so that the dry land could appear:[1][2]

Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.[3]


4

Correct. The first formation of our physical firmament of heaven (simile to a solid dome) took place only on the 2nd Day NOT on the 1st Day. The Big Bang took place on the 3rd Day of Genesis.

What contradictory statements do you see? So I can clarify your understanding.

God Bless

 

5

Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning, God created the heaven (Hebrew - Air) and the Earth (Hebrew -Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 elements necessary for all physical forms are shown… Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today’s scientific knowledge, but IF the Scriptures were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning, God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God, Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

Genesis 1:1 begins by telling us that the 3 elements created before the First Day - It was air, dust, and water. YHWH, the Son of God, took some of the air, dust, and water at the beginning of the 3rd Day and changed it into energy by causing a Singularity. Exactly as YHWH knew it would matter inflated from the Blackhole made by the first of the first Huge Stars to implode and become a Singularity that produced other Universes.

Millions of years later, the Universe had cooled enough to become visible. Genesis 2:4 gives us the Day this Big Bang happened. It was the 3rd Day the SAME Day the first Earth was made, which was the 3rd Day according to Genesis 1:9-10.

God also got the FACT that Stars didn’t shine until the 4th Day, which was millions of years AFTER the Big Bang. This is a recent scientific discovery. There is NO way any ancient man Moses could have possibly known this.

Our God is an Awesome God.

6

Your God is a figment of your imagination reinforced by your Ego.

You quote ancient tribal texts, sheep herders and traders, “seers” and politicians - from thousands of years ago. It’s got nothing on the sober study of material existent - that would be physical reality. Stuff that you chose to dismiss.

 

May Your EGO Bless You and The god of Our Own Making.

 

7

Oh and how does that gibberish you quoted offer Understanding of anything, god or physical ???

8
Roy said,

The Big Bang took place on the 3rd Day of Genesis.


Well then , I guess science needs to revise all their theories stemming from the mistaken belief that the BB was “in The Beginning”?

 

9

How did “God” learn to speak, in the first place? One needs a verbal community to acquire language. If god were alone, he could not have acquired language. Maybe he created the Angels without having to speak magically, and they then became his listeners.

But I don’t see how he would have developed “mands” (words that indicate requests or directions). We acquire mands by our listeners supplying the thing requested or directed (thus reinforcing the use of that word/s). Since “God” presumably would have no need for reinforcement from others, being such an all powerful entity, himself, I don’t see how he could have developed the verbal behavior to say “Let there be light.” But then it is a story of magic, so I guess that could account for the disparity.

Roy, I think Genesis is an old and rather obsolete story. It’s assertions are as real and valid as any book of fiction about supernatural things, but no more so. Also its style is odd and its wordings are vague. It’s not even very entertaining.

Your “God” may seem awesome to you, but it is a fabrication of human minds. In the beginning was the word (human verbal behavior) and that allowed the creation of “God” as a concept within human thoughts. Before humans could conceive of a “God” (or actually many “Gods” early on) there wasn’t even One, even as a concept.

10
Roy said, "The Big Bang took place on the 3rd Day of Genesis."

Write4U said: “Well then , I guess science needs to revise all their theories stemming from the mistaken belief that the BB was “in The Beginning”?


Correct. In the beginning, the Earth (Heb-ground) was without form and void (Gen 1:1-2) because there was no physical God to stretch the heaven/air, mold the earth/dust and water into physical shape.

The Son of God was at the bosom of the invisible Almighty God Father of whom no man hath seen at any time except the Son hath declare him - John 1:18 in the Beginning, before the Making of our Physical Worlds. YHWH or Jesus, the Son, is the only God ever formed or that ever will be formed, came into the physical world from within the Invisible Spirit of the Almighty God Father, when He commanded and said, Let there be Light, and there was light. (Gen 1:3)

The Son came into the physical world from within the invisible Spirit of the Almighty God Father and provided the light in the beginning; to mold the clay and destroy the darkness/death which was upon everything God had created APART from his spiritual realm BEFORE the Son came into the physical world, in the beginning.

Without YHWH, the Son, was Not anything made that was made, because Everything Physical was formed - as a potter would mold a clay - by the Physical Hands of the Only God, the Only Image, the Only Begotten Son of the Invisible Spirit of God.

The emergence of Light gave LIFE to the physical worlds that God created APART from his spiritual Realm. Of course, to be APART from Almighty God’s Spiritual Realm is subject to Death!

That’s also exactly why the Scripture says that we must be Born Again, spiritually to have eternal life with God, since, He is a Spirit.

God Bless

11

Oooh spirits. Spooky.

Except that supernatural entities don’t actually exist in the real physical world. They exist as imaginary concepts. I don’t think that is what you mean by spiritual, though.

12
UNDERSTANDING GENESIS 1&2 “THE BEGINNING.”
Here is a brief chronology of the 7 Days or Ages of Creation of the THIRD Heaven:.

Before the first Day, God (Trinity) created air and ground without form and darkness/death was upon everything He had made apart from Him, so God said: Let there be Light. Gen 1:1-3

Day 1- YHWH or Jesus (the Son of God) came forth into the physical world to defeat the darkness which was upon everything God had created apart from his spiritual realm. The Image of the Son is brighter than the Noonday Sun. Gen 1:3

Day 2- Jesus made a firmament or boundary of Adam’s world and placed it in the midst or middle of the Water, and God called it “heaven”. Gen 1:6-8

Day 3- Jesus caused the BB to happen and AFTER it cooled off He made Adam’s Earth and another two HeavenS, but before He made the plants, He made man of the dust of the ground. Gen 2:4-7

Note: Our own Present Earth is like “Johny comes lately” and was made/completed for inhabitation only some 4.53B years ago.

Day 4- The first Stars of our 2nd Heaven put forth their light into our Cosmos, which began as the Big Bang, on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4

Day 5- Our own heaven and the earth which are now is completed. Every living creature that moves was created and brought forth from the waters by the TRINITY, on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21

Day 6- Jesus makes the beasts of the field and birds and brought them to Adam and names them… and then Jesus makes Eve. Adam sins and is cast out from the Garden. A&E have two sons and Cain kills Abel. Seth was born and during his generations, men started to call upon the name of the Lords (Gen 4:26) Then God speaks AGAIN. Let US make man in OUR Image.

Gen 1:26 ; 5:1-2 Adam and Eve were BOTH “created in God’s Image”- In Christ. They were born again Spiritually, just as ALL of mankind MUST be born again in order to inherit the Third Heaven, the object of the 6 Creative Days.

This brings us up to the present TIME, today, 2019/2020 for God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image or in Christ, TODAY.

The end of the present 6th Day is in the Future because the events of Gen 1:28-31 are Prophecy of things which will not happen until AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth at the end of the present 6th Day.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Isaiah 11 tells us that AFTER Jesus returns the Lion will eat Straw like the Ox. Isa 11:7 Has everyone heard that the Lion will lay down by the Lamb when Jesus returns? Now, you know that it will happen TODAY, on the present 6th Age. The 7th Day or God’s rest is still in the FUTURE. Heb 4:9

Our God is an awesome God.

13

Hey Roy, the Center For Inquiry is part of the Richard Dawkins Foundation that promotes scientific literacy and works to advance secularism around the world. I don’t think it is appropriate to preach the teachings of the Bible in this forum. You need to define what God is and either show empirical evidence for or prove it in terms that we can understand.

14
Roy said,

Correct. In the beginning, the Earth (Heb-ground) was without form and void (Gen 1:1-2) because there was no physical God to stretch the heaven/air, mold the earth/dust and water into physical shape.


If you believe that was correct, you have just become part of the joke.

15

The big bang took place on the third day of creation, the day after the earth was made? I’m sorry, but that is the most ludicrous statement I have ever read in my entire life. The big bang theory is a scientific theory, not a fairy tale. As such you don’t get to incorporate it into magical stories in ways that don’t make sense. Let me explain the several issues with that statement.

First, before the big bang (which was really the big expansion) there was no space. The big bang starts with a singularity, an infinitely small point with no dimensions whatsoever. The earth, being bigger than infinitely small, could not fit within the universe at a point where the measurements of the universe were 000.

Second, in the first few seconds of the big bang the universe was so hot no matter could exist. Any matter which formed was instantly annihilated. As space expanded the universe began to cool, eventually becoming cool enough for matter to form.

On a side not, “cool” is not exactly the right word to use there. There was a finite, exact amount of energy in the universe and there is that same exact amount of energy/matter in the universe now. Simply math will explain this better. You have X amount of energy over Y amount of space. Let’s assign some arbitrary numbers so that we can do the math. Let us say that X is 100, representing all of the matter and energy in the universe (which was originally all energy as matter couldn’t form yet). And let us say that Y is 1, a simple (unit) of space. The formula would be simply X/Y. With that formula there is 100 energy in 1 measure of space. As the universe expands Y gets bigger. When it is 10X the single unit size we are using the formula was X/(Y*10) or 100/10. Then there were only 10 units of energy in each measurement of space. We still have all of the original energy, it’s just spread out over more space, having the result of “cooling” without the energy actually disappearing.

So you can see there are already 2 reasons that the Earth could not have existed before the big bang. It’s good that you’re trying to tailor your religious beliefs to the facts as we know them, but you do have to use the actual facts or you’re not really doing that at all. There is no reason to try to incorporate science into your religious beliefs if you don’t use actual science.

16
Here’s a brief summary of how I read the first five verses of the Book of Genesis – “The Beginning”:

Genesis 1:1 Is a Preface or Summary – The Story of the Beginning of the Physical Worlds.
Genesis 1:2 Tells us the condition of the deep – empty/void – before the making of our physical world.
Genesis 1:3 The bringing forth of the LIGHT before anything is made that was made…. before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 The division of light from darkness – the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 The evening and the morning the first day of Genesis.


Again, as you can see, based on the above perspective, our physical heaven and earth that we know of today, still formless and void on the 1st Day of Genesis / Creation. The 1st formation of the firmament of Heaven took place on the 2nd Day – Gen 1:6-8. The Earth was formed/made on the 3rd Day.

The big bang took place on the third day of creation, the day after the earth was made? I’m sorry, but that is the most ludicrous statement I have ever read in my entire life. The big bang theory is a scientific theory, not a fairy tale. As such you don’t get to incorporate it into magical stories in ways that don’t make sense. Let me explain the several issues with that statement.
Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning God Created the heaven (Hebrew – Air) and the Earth (Hebrew -Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:6-8 shows the 1st heaven (Adam’ world) was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 2:4 shows other heavenS (plural) being made on the 3rd Day. That’s a Multiverse, containing at least 2 or more separate heavens/universes.

YHWH, the Son of the invisible God, took some of these matters air, dust, and water at the beginning of the 3rd Day and flipped/changed it AGAIN into energy by causing a Singularity. Exactly as YHWH knew it would matter inflated from the Blackhole made by the first of the first Huge Stars to implode and become a Singularity that produced other Universes.

Millions of years later, the Universe had cooled enough to become visible. Genesis 2:4 gives us the Day this Big Bang happened. It was the 3rd Day the SAME Day the first Earth was made, which was the 3rd Day according to Genesis 1:9-10.

Gen 2:4-7 also shows that Adam was made on the SAME 3rd Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos, but Unbelievers (ToE) tell us ancient men (Moses & others) authored the Scripture?. I don’t actually think that is true.

There is no interpretation needed since Science has measured the time since the Big Bang at 13.8 Billion years ago in man’s time, and God shows it was the 3rd Days or Ages ago, which means that EACH of God’s Days is some 4.5 Billion years in length, in man’s time. God’s Truth is the Truth Scientifically, Historically, and in EVERY other way, IF we can understand God’s Holy Word.

Only God, the Supreme Intelligence of Creation, the Creator who CANNOT Lie would get these things scientifically correct, even today.

AGAIN, I like the FACT that Gen 2:4 shows that the Big Bang of our world was on the 3rd Day and the FIRST Stars of our Cosmos did NOT put forth their Light until the 4th Day. Gen 1:16. Science has recently learned that it took Hundreds of Millions of years AFTER the Big Bang BEFORE the FIRST Stars put forth their Light. It’s PROOF that ONLY God could have written Genesis.

God and true science discoveries are in agreement… and the false ToE and some Religionist are the odd men out.

 

17

So God’s days are 4.5 billion years long. On daylight saving time (spring forward or fall back) days, do you just set your clock up or back 200 million years?

You know what might be fun? If you picked some other work of literary fantasy (instead of the Bible) and pretended it were literally true, so you could then work out what the author really meant to tell us, and explain why there is nothing about the story that conflicts with our history, science, or reality.

18
TimB said: So God’s days are 4.5 billion years long. On daylight saving time (spring forward or fall back) days, do you just set your clock up or back 200 million years?

You know what might be fun? If you picked some other work of literary fantasy (instead of the Bible) and pretended it were literally true, so you could then work out what the author really meant to tell us, and explain why there is nothing about the story that conflicts with our history, science, or reality.


Sorry TimB, but, what you have aside from continued BLUFFING your way here, is a fallacy of argument that is only based on your own made-up premises. In fact, the record shows that you could NOT even come-up with an intelligent rebuttal to refute any of my assertions/postings legitimately or with merit.

It would be nice IF you stop projecting your own weaknesses and predicament on me. I will appreciate that.

Thanks

19

@2pillars

Quoting the Bible to me isn’t going to change the facts. You either want to incorporate science into your creation myth or you don’t. The way you are currently incorporating it is impossible. You have to put the big bang on the first day or throw in some magic to give the Earth a place to live before the universe existed because there was no space before the big bang. You have to make your story at least plausible.

You can either accept science or you can reject it. In this story you’re trying to remake it. You’re using the terms, but with none of the meaning they impart. Science doesn’t work that way and never will. You either accept it or you don’t. You don’t get to remake it. If you try to remake it then it doesn’t bolster your creation myth, it makes it all the more ridiculous because you’re using scientific terms to describe magical happenings. It doesn’t give you credibility, it takes it away.

20

Generally speaking, inflammatory, hyperbolic or overly emotive rhetoric is the sign of a troll and should be avoided on the CFI Forum. This community exists, first and foremost, to foster inquiry. Inquiry does not flourish in an atmosphere of heated rhetoric, mutual vilification or recrimination. Disagreements should be kept, as much as possible, to the issues at hand and not become overly personalized. To take but one example, pointing out a person’s lack of scientific qualifications when discussing scientific issues is on-point, but referring to someone’s political beliefs is not. Since they risk degenerating into flame wars, abusive forum threads or posts are subject to immediate editing or deletion.