Microtubules the seat of Consciousness

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W4U said: > I have seen microtubules described by 4 different names and for each a specialized function. I am trying to pull all these different MT functions together to show the critical part MT play in the eventual emergence of consciousness IN ALL Eukaryotic organisms. .

I am glad you noticed. It was one of David Bohm’s gripes that science has become so specialized that sometimes relative information becomes so fractured that the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing!

This is the remarkable property of microtubules that this simple dimer of 2 tubulins self-forming into a dipolar coil with the ability to change its length and thereby function as an electrochemical potentiometer.

ALL Eukaryotic cells contain MT and already had simpler forms in Prokaryotic life, which indicates they were there from the very beginning and may possibly be the “black box” from which the first living organisms emerged.

image
Schematic depiction of a function described metaphorically as a “machine” or “black box” that for each input yields a corresponding output

Continuation from “Who is God”

CC said: Jumping from there to Brains, I saw this interesting video that underscores my point, that we are still at the discovery stage of brains, with the potential of unrecognized connections and mechanisms right under our nose.


Why We’ve Been Ignoring These Brain Cells | Great Minds: Ben Barres

Neurons often get all the credit for running the brain, but the work done by Ben Barres at Stanford University proved that glial cells are far more crucial to brain functioning than we had previously realized.

Although in a way this deserves it’s own post, considering what a fascinating person Ben Barres must have been.

Yes indeed , Glial Cells are very important, but look closer and what do we see?

The microtubule (MT) cytoskeleton is central to regulating glial and neuronal functions during development and in the adult, providing the dynamic ability to extend processes, migrate, establish synaptic connections and transmit information.Nov 2, 2015

Radial glial cells organize the central nervous system via microtubule dependent processes

Abstract

The correct cytokinesis and polarization of radial glial cells are essential for populating and patterning the central nervous system. The microtubule (MT) cytoskeleton is central to regulating glial and neuronal functions during development and in the adult, providing the dynamic ability to extend processes, migrate, establish synaptic connections and transmit information.

MT biogenesis disorders result in a spectrum of neurological deficits resulting from abnormal neuronal proliferation, migration and aberrant white matter formation. In the present review, we place a spotlight on the roles MTs play in orchestrating radial glial cell activities during interkinetic nuclear migration and neuronal translocation to cortical destinations along pia-directed processes. We also outline the consequences of MT dysfunction in the polarization and establishment of the radial glial cell scaffold.

Keywords in every discussion of cells and sensory experience include microtubules.

Yes, yes, yes, I bow down to microtubules I would know absolutely nothing of life and what it means to be a human if not for those microtubules, they really are the answer to everything. Because look it’s right there they are every where. What other conclusion is there to make.

Forget about the Kerb Cycle its distraction.
Mitochondria, just another irritating diversion.
Forget about the constant instant interaction between entity and environment, nothing to learn there, we already know the answer microtubules.

Okay end of story microtubules are our answer for everything.
Now that that’s cleared up.

What do we do with that knowledge? I’m still curious about that answer, but what the heck, no matter.

What conclusion can we draw other than microtubules must be the essence of God?

[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:83, topic:9472”]
What do we do with that knowledge? I’m still curious about that answer, but what the heck, no matter.

Find out how they work! Imagine what medical benefits can be achieved if we can control microtubule function. Cure Alzheimers, Dementia, neural diseases, mitosis, etc.

What conclusion can we draw other than microtubules must be the essence of God?

I doubt it. If anything, microtubules are self-organizing data processors .

God is not necessary in the creation of microtubules. They consist of 2 related tubulins (dimer) that chemically evolved into their current configuration that allows for dynamic growth and function as biological potentiometers.

But microtubules are not indestructible. “Microtubule catastrophe” results in degradation of sentience, motility, shape, cell division, and data transport in general.

Microtubule Catastrophe and Rescue

Abstract

Microtubules are long cylindrical polymers composed of tubulin subunits. In cells, microtubules play an essential role in architecture and motility. For example, microtubules give shape to cells, serve as intracellular transport tracks, and act as key elements in important cellular structures such as axonemes and mitotic spindles. To accomplish these varied functions, networks of microtubules in cells are very dynamic, continuously remodeling through stochastic length fluctuations at the ends of individual microtubules. The dynamic behavior at the end of an individual microtubule is termed “dynamic instability”.

This behavior manifests itself by periods of persistent microtubule growth interrupted by occasional switching to rapid shrinkage (called microtubule catastrophe'), and then by switching back from shrinkage to growth (called microtubule rescue’). In this review, we summarize recent findings which provide new insights into the mechanisms of microtubule catastrophe and rescue, and discuss the impact of these findings in regards to the role of microtubule dynamics inside of cells.

Microtubule catastrophe: an aging process

A microtubule “catastrophe” event manifests itself by the sudden switch of a growing microtubule into a rapidly shortening state. The widely accepted view of microtubule catastrophe is that it involves a single random event, such as the sudden loss of a protective end structure [[1]

This single-step mechanism implies that a microtubule has the same probability of undergoing catastrophe at any given point in time, irrespective of how long it has been growing already. In this model, the `catastrophe frequency’, which is the number of observed catastrophes divided by the total period of microtubule growth, remains constant over time, and the distribution of microtubule lifetimes and lengths is predicted to follow a decaying exponential distribution

In contrast, by protecting' the young microtubules, the microtubule aging process results in most catastrophe events happening away from the microtubule nucleation center, allowing a greater proportion of microtubules to grow longer and better explore the cellular space. This could greatly improve the efficiency of proposed search and capture’ mechanisms for capturing of kinetochores by dynamic microtubules during mitotic spindle assembly [[18]


Cellular effects of microtubule aging regulation

(A) In a single step process, the microtubule length distribution is exponential (left), while microtubule aging leads to a non-exponential length distribution of microtubules (right), allowing for a more effective search-and-capture mechanism. (B) Lack of fine-tuning of microtubule lengths leads to improper metaphase chromosome alignment during mitosis (left, red arrows denoting the magnitude of kinetochore oscillations), while tight spatial regulation of microtubule lengths by the effects of a Kinesin-8 molecular motor on microtubule growth rate and microtubule aging allows for proper alignment (right, green arrows denoting the magnitude of kinetochore oscillations). (C) Due to the aging process, short (young) microtubules continue growth at the completion of mitosis (left, green arrows denote growing, while red crosses denote shrinking microtubules). By turning catastrophe into a single-step process, MCAK leads to indiscriminatory microtubule disassembly (right).

First priority how might we can control them

Abraham would be proud.

Right because they are God.
Also right - god is actually unnecessary, but that’s just quibbling.

Great articles, great gadgets, still missing how they inform us regarding our species and our unique human condition within the realm of reality - as opposed to all the crap our minds can dream up and the interpretations we stamp on stuff.

As for the “seat of consciousness” what’s that even mean?
Who’s consciousness are we referring to, the single cell, or an octopus, or grove of Redwood trees and their underground network, or consciousness of an Amazonian hunter, compared to a Wall Street hedge funder?

Can it inform me about the weird connection and communication that’s developing between my Maddy dog and me, or those various winks of recognition that flick between strangers now and then?

Can it help me appreciate my place in this world, or can it help me reconcile my love of life with my inevitable death and the end to my existence interior and exterior?

Can it help me find kinship with, and my place within, the animal kingdom?

Can it help me puzzle out the weird little conflicts between my desires and impulses with my better angels and worser demons? The battle between the flesh and the spirit, and all that.

and so on and so forth.

You adore and worship microtubules, so all roads lead to microtubules, as if nothing else mattered - I see them as another fascinating critical gadget among many many foundational fascinating critical gadgets within the micro-world of biology.

But biology is just an interesting, if foundational, hobby for me, my passion is figuring out the poetry of my life within the stage of living humanity as I struggled with my passions and desires and I’m finding it rather gratifying that there really are resolutions to those dog-chasing-tail spiritual questions everyone likes arguing about.

It’s starts with recognizing who I am as a human, and that requires grasping the significance of the Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide, hand in hand with that, it requires an appreciation of Evolution’s pageant upon Earth’s evolving stage, unfolding one day at a time…

If you want to draw an analogy of God, the closest I can come to it is: Evolution = God.
And that removes the need for a God altogether. Evolution is a mathematical self-organizing function that presents an infinite variety of molecular varieties from which the best adapted is selected for continuation. The rest disappears into the mist of history.

[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:85, topic:9472”]
Great articles, great gadgets, still missing how they inform us regarding our species and our unique human condition within the realm of reality - as opposed to all the crap our minds can dream up and the interpretations we stamp on stuff.

IMO, as I explained, our extraordinary brains are a result of a rare beneficial genetic mutation of the fusion of two chromosomes into one chromosome twice as large.
This is the indisputable evidence that sets humans apart from all other great apes.

As for the “seat of consciousness” what’s that even mean?
Who’s consciousness are we referring to, the single cell, or an octopus, or grove of Redwood trees and their underground network, or consciousness of an Amazonian hunter, compared to a Wall Street hedge funder?

I see consciousness as a quantum field emerging from the dynamic electrochemical activities in the “neural network” that uses microtubules as the fundamental functional substrate of information processing.
The brain alone has 100 billion neurons connected with some 10,000 othere neurons via 1000 trillion synapses.

Can it inform me about the weird connection and communication that’s developing between my Maddy dog and me, or those various winks of recognition that flick between strangers now and then?

You bet it can. It’s called “love”.

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Can it help me appreciate my place in this world, or can it help me reconcile my love of life with my inevitable death and the end to my existence interior and exterior?
Can it help me find kinship with, and my place within, the animal kingdom?

Yesssss… the “mirror neural network” that allows one to “identify with the emotional state” of another brained animal. Seems that all brained animals have mirror neurons. It allows them to copy behavior patterns of the parents.

All brained animals have the exact same microtubules as humans. They are just arranged in simpler patterns.
This is what enables similarities in conscious thought processes.

Can it help me puzzle out the weird little conflicts between my desires and impulses with my better angels and worser demons? The battle between the flesh and the spirit, and all that.

Yes, and that may be a detrimental side-effect of having this incredibly complicated human brain patterns. It can process data in so many different ways and from different perspectives that what allows other animals to adapt and adjust to environmental pressures, humans are able to control and change our environmental conditions.

Plus what used to be a “hoarding instinct” for scarcety in food sources, in humans this has developed in full emotional condition of GREED!!!
We want and take more than what we deserve and the natural environment can sustain.

Just think, we have released in 300 years, billions of years of sequestered carbon and spewed it back into the atmosphere. Nature can only absorb so much before it starts reacting negatively to the insult. And then watch out ! Major changes on a global scale usually result in mass extinctions.

You adore and worship microtubules, so all roads lead to microtubules as if nothing else mattered - I see them as another fascinating critical gadget among many many foundational fascinating critical gadgets within the micro-world of biology.

But biology is just an interesting if foundational, hobby for me, my passion is figuring out the poetry of my life within the stage of living humanity as I struggled with my passions and desires and I’m finding it rather gratifying that there really are resolutions to those dog-chasing-tail spiritual questions everyone likes arguing about.

I see biology as an evolved probability potential in a self-ordering dynamic environment, not only on Earth but all throughout the Universe.
I firmly believe in Hazen’s proposition that life must exist elsewhaere in the universe.
It isn’t that complicated . Some 500 different evolved molecules self-organized from common chemicals and found throughout the Universe, a dynamic environment that creates an occasional chaotic condition from which new patterns emerge and are tested by natural selection for survivability in one form or another. Plus time and probabilities will inevitable become expressed .

It’s starts with recognizing who I am as a human, and that requires grasping the significance of the Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide, hand in hand with that, it requires an appreciation of Evolution’s pageant upon Earth’s evolving stage, unfolding one day at a time…

Of course, you have created your own environment where you feel comfortable and safe.

I’m livid, just spent a half hour + working on responses then bopping back and for between tabs and I managed to close this tab. Sometimes the comment window remembers and the unposted comment is there when reopening but not this time.

Very irritating, especially since I’d written our a fun little incident with Maddy and skunk and me underscoring the silliness of reducing things to “love”. {Not that I’m not a great lover of love, but I know its place} As is your amazing ability to totally miss the point I’m trying to be make.

Even as rivets are absolutely critical to the Eiffel Tower - no matter how much you learn about rivets, they will never be able to explain the physical fact of the whole, nor the intellectual, esthetic impact that the Eiffel Tower has on people.


That’s a non sequitur.

There is the rub.
Microtubule networks don’t inform us at all. It does not create thought.
They process information, just like an electrical network does not create light.

But just as an high power EM field can light up a fluorescent light bulb,
image

so does the EM field inside the brain, produced by the interaction of data via TRILLIONS OF SYNAPSES, produce a field that creates “bings” of cognition when compared to data from memory. It is an exercise in “differential equation”.

What about our species? Are we any better than the Dinosaurs that ruled the earth for 500 million yers and ust “poof” disappeared.

I’m sorry CC, you are assigning special properties to humans that are simply unwarranted in the greater scheme of things.
Humans are jus another biological expression of natural evolutionary processes. Our complex brain was a lucky accident. Nature is magnificent without any extraordinary attachment of being “special”. We come from an ordinary species of great apes.

Be careful. Don’t mistake the metaphor for the reality.

But, let be clear you are speaking in metaphor and the reality of the complexity unfolding still holds some surprises, as this video demonstrated.

The fact that the ubiquitous microtubules also exists in Glial Cells
should not distract from the real news
that they are far more crucial to brain functions and in ways that no one was previously aware of.

You mean that we have cognitive function that are orders of magnitude beyond that of dinosaurs or any other creature that’s lived?
Heck we humans are driving a planet wide extinction event.
Ain’t that special enough for ya?

Or are you now denying all that? Or are you saying it’s just a distraction to truly appreciating microtubules.

and where the hell have I ever said differently???

But humans are also the only species who has stepped on the moon, or created ever increasing microscopes to the point that we can peered within atoms. Not to mention endlessly philosophizing about God and producing enough books to fill the Mediterranean Sea about it.

Heck, not to mention gossip columns along with lucrative careers dedicated to lying and stupefying via, raping and battering solid evidence and true facts to death.

Your habit of creating straw men is starting to be more than simple misunderstanding.

It isn’t a metaphor. The brain is the biological equivalent of an EM field generator.
That comes from an expert in brain function and an expert in EM quantum mechanics.

The fact that the ubiquitous microtubules also exists in Glial Cells
should not distract from the real news that they are far more crucial to brain functions and in ways that no one was previously aware of.

Glial cells are important because they perform maintenance (interoceptive homeostasis). They do not process sensory information… Any sensory date processing in Glial cells is performed by the microtubules inside the Glial cells.

Glial Cells

Primarily, glial cells provide support and protection to the neurons (nerve cells), maintain homeostasis, cleaning up debris, and forming myelin. They essentially work to care for the neurons and the environment they are in.Jul 8, 2021
What Are Glial Cells: Types And Functions

You mean that we have cognitive function that are orders of magnitude beyond that of dinosaurs or any other creature that’s lived?

That is incorrect. It is not cognitive functions humans excel in . We excel in abstract thought, like the prediction of future events.

Actually, humans are very low on the sensory cognition scale and many animals far exceed our senses in specific areas.

Just make a list of animals that have sensory abilities far exceeding humans. It is a long list.

The reason is that natural selection favored certain species with extraordinary sensory abilities because their existence depends on a few selected highly acute sensory abilities.

The second reason is that all Eukaryotic organisms and animal species have the exact same microtubules as humans. It is not a matter of cognition per se, it’s a matter of processing the cognitive information and examining its implications.

We think much more abstractly than animals. We can plan days , weeks, years ahead.

Most other species are reactive, humans are proactive.

Heck we humans are driving a planet wide extinction event.
Ain’t that special enough for ya?

Or are you now denying all that? Or are you saying it’s just a distraction to truly >appreciating microtubules?

No, it’s just that microtubules don’t give us an advantage. All animals have them. It’s our complex brain that is able to make complex inferences and pre-emptive actions based on minimal sensory information.

What we lack in natural sensory abilities we augment by artificial means.

my comment stands

You’re missing my point.
Stop talking with such certainly. A) you aren’t an expert B) the experts warn we are in early days of discover, with surprises to be expected.

Excuse me for my inexpert word usage.

" Cognitive functioning refers to multiple mental abilities, including learning, thinking, reasoning, remembering, problem solving, decision making, and attention ."

Abstract thinking is the ability to understand concepts that are real, such as freedom or vulnerability, but which are not directly tied to concrete physical objects and experiences . Abstract thinking is the ability to absorb information from our senses and make connections to the wider world.

Besides, You don’t think our fingers provide our brains with a certain unique cognitive awareness, beyond what the fingers of primates, or hoofs of animals etc. can convey to the observing mind of said creature?

Abraham would be proud. It’s our brains that conquer.

Yeah and the team with the most points wins. Yippy.

That above being true, doesn’t at all mean that’s all there’s to it.
You are good at creating boxes and boundaries.
The body and brain and mind work together, every thing dependent on the other.

Your certitude in tentative understand is the same as it’s ever been.

https://www.researchmagazine.lu.se/2014/07/13/dead-ends-in-science/

These are full of over blown egos, and human centric assumption (a symptom of that Abrahamic mindset.)

… and are on a fast road to self destruction for our arrogance. This is the realm that I’m concerned with.

It begins with a better appreciation of the relationship between our knowledge and ourselve.
This in turn requires some deep thinking about the Human Mindscape ~ Physical Reality divide.

That physical reality being atoms, molecules, laws of nature, the biological - our Earthly realm which produced evolution and our bodies and brains, which in turn produces our mind, our window to the world.

Have you ever stopped to think about the difference between who you ‘are’ (spiritually, intellectually, emotionally), in relationship to this physical body that connects you to the physical realm?

Seems to me the first fundamental intellectual step before all that scientific information we cram into our minds can really start making any a holistic realistic Earth/Evolution respecting sense.

That’s why I see appreciating the Human Mindscape ~ Physical Reality divide as a sort of benchmark (first base prerequisite), without which the information we receive remains discombobulated like a series of post cards, rather than a deep down visceral understanding that grows as more pieces to the puzzle are collected.

I agree, our brain has not made us live more in harmony with nature. Quite the contrary. And we are beginning to reap the other end of Newton’s Third Law of dynamical action.

Our fantastic brain has not made us more “in tune” with Nature than a single-celled Paramecium that lives purely reactive to its environment.

That is the parable of being banned from Eden. It is one of the rare words of wisdom in the bible.

continued from Thoughts are not of material matter

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Open AccessReview

Spatial and Temporal Scaling of Microtubules and Mitotic Spindles

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Open AccessReview

Spatial and Temporal Scaling of Microtubules and Mitotic Spindles

1 Centre de Recherche de Biologie Cellulaire de Montpellier (CRBM), CNRS UMR 5237, Université de Montpellier, 1919 Route de Mende, CEDEX 5, 34293 Montpellier, France

2 Université de Paris, CNRS, Institut Jacques Monod, F-75013 Paris, France

Author to whom correspondence should be addressed.
Academic Editor: Vladimir Joukov

Cells 2022, 11(2), 248; Cells | Free Full-Text | Spatial and Temporal Scaling of Microtubules and Mitotic Spindles

Received: 23 December 2021 / Revised: 7 January 2022 / Accepted: 9 January 2022 / Published: 12 January 2022

(This article belongs to the Special Issue Cytoskeleton Dynamics during Cell Division)

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Abstract

During cell division, the mitotic spindle, a macromolecular structure primarily comprised of microtubules, drives chromosome alignment and partitioning between daughter cells.

Keywords: mitotic spindle; allometry; temporal scaling; spatial scaling; microtubule dynamics; embryonic development

1. Introduction

Metazoan development relies on biological processes that occur at very different scales, ranging from molecules to organisms, and that must be coordinated in space and time. During early embryogenesis, a succession of rapid cell divisions (embryonic cleavages) occurs in the absence of growth, leading to a dramatic reduction in cell size.

How cellular processes are coordinated and remain accurate along with the progressive reduction of cell size is a fascinating question in biology. The remarkable capacity of a variety of cellular organelles to adapt their size, number or mass to the overall cell size has been the subject of many studies.

Among the organelles that adapt, or scale, their size to cellular dimensions, the mitotic spindle has gathered the interest of many scientists from different disciplines for its key role in genome partitioning and its remarkable self-organizing properties.

The mitotic spindle is a conserved dynamic macromolecular structure composed of microtubules essential for the alignment and segregation of chromosomes during cell division [1]

more…

And what’s that got to do with consciousness, or thought?

All these self-organizing functions of data translation, processing and copying support the notion that an MT network qualifies for the role of information processing substrate with emergent conscious properties.

We are in process of examining evidence of potential field generating networks.
To my knowledge there is nothing in biology that comes even close in complexity , versatily, and commonality in all sentient Eukaryotic organisms as the microtubule.
Trillions of them all connected via synapses, the bulbous ends of microtubules inside neurons that actually are engaged in data transmission over long distances in the body.

When looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, it isn’t a pussycat.

Suppositions based on some evidence and great deal of assumptions, seen though a biased filter.

On the contrary. This not my personal theory. This is my critical inquiry of a proposition made by people with much greater scientific knowledge than me.

I support all my “observations” with links to evidence provided by bona fide research facilities.

My statements are not based on speculation but on evidence.
It just turns out that all roads lead to microtubules. There is no alternate candidate.

Can you thinks of another organelle that is present in the numbers and networked systems other than our blood circulatory system.
Would it be speculation to say that red blood cells are the oxygen carriers of the body?
And even there MT play a critical role in cellular self-organization.

For blood platelets and other cells, this shape is maintained by the marginal band, which is a closed ring of filaments called microtubules. This ring is elastic and pushes on the cell cortex, a tense polymer scaffold associated with the plasma membrane. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1618041114#

If Tegmark is correct in his proposition that we have all the necessary fundamental ingredients for the emergence of conscious sentience, then I sumbit that in the absence of some magical external agency, microtubules are the only known perfect candidate to fill the role of substrate for the emergence of “thought fields”.

What are you telling me they are immune from suppositions based on some evidence and great deal of assumptions, seen though a biased filter?

Not really, you do stuff like articles about microtubules and mitosis, when we were talking about high brain functions.

Not meaning to be nasty, but seriously,
are you telling me evidence and speculation don’t go hand in hand. Mind you, I listen to the same sorts of lectures you’ve listened to.

There you go again.
Case in point.

Oh stick Tegmark, he’s a genius lost in his own genius, busy making his little fortune building a fan base, and selling articles and public talks. He’s an intellectual salesman and entertainer, every bit as much as he is scientist lost in the world of physics and cosmic dreams while forgetting there’s a planet down here, with living breathing biological beings, that also deserves a little serious attention.

He’s a hero to you - he seems part of the problem to me.

In the previous post I listed about fifty respected scientists and you just dismiss their work as his school science projects.

Do you know how insulting that is to people who spend lifetimes in furthering understanding of the great mysteries that present to us all.

All you have is some undefined principle of Abrahamic conditioning and mind/body integration with nature and evolutionary processes. Great, and what are you going to do with that knowledge?
Cure the worlds’s ills?

You offer philosophy. You offer no evidence, yet I respect your perspective and can identify with your thought processes.

I offer science. I offer reams of supporting evidence, yet you seem to totally disrespect my perspective and cannot identify with my thought processes.

If you offered constructive critique I would appreciate that. But all you do is reject everything I post without even offering a reason why you reject the evidence even if you disagree with my conclusions.

As philosopher please show the same respect to scientists as scientists show philosophers. Lest you be accused of having an Abrahamic mind.