Hello, looking for a little advice here…
I would like to draw attention to a particular organization and would like to know if anyone else has heard of them, and if so, are they as concerned as me.
It’s in regard to pseudoscience and quackery related to a specific Christian based Chiropractic organization from the U.S. They are offenders of sound science, logic and reason in every conceivable way across the whole spectrum from religion to quackery and alternative medicine, and to this I would also add a complete lack of and disregard of business morals. If it is deliberate, or they are purely diluted and honestly believe 0 of everything they preach, that I can not say, but either way, it is rather frightening how they conduct themselves.
They are called “Maximized Living”. http://www.maximizedliving.com/
They are a heavily Christian influenced organization at the management level, and all though their individual subordinates of Chiropractors and employees may not be as individuals by necessity, if you ever witnessed one of their seminars (I have I’ll explain) you would think it was led by a Tony Robbins Chiropractor / Hybrid Televangelist Joel Osteen (Scary I know).
They are 100% by the book old school Subluxation based vitalism straight Chiropractors. They preach the miracles of D.D Palmer like he was Christ (whom also comes up in their rhetoric), and constantly speak of “ The only healing that ever takes place is done by the human body itself through it’s own, inherent recuperative power". One of their earlier books “Body by God: The Owners Manual for Maximized Living” by one of their head gurus Dr. Ben Lerner (who is very creepy) exemplifies their obvious religious affiliations.
Some dirty details:
Their offices are LOADED with scare tactics throwing “risks of cancer from poor lifestyle” in your face.
-Anti-vaccination posters against flu shots saying “don’t poison your body” line their walls.
They promote the anti “Big Pharma conspiracy" in full swing and don’t pull punches claiming that pills and medicine will kill you, it’s all toxins and doctors only want to make money and prescribe you medicine, the whole “Keep you sick” conspiracy.
They actually play animations in the waiting room explaining “how the corrupt medical system works”.
Thy display pictures of celebrities who died of cancer with their before and after chemotherapy pictures. (Patrick Swayze among them).
Even posters about Angelina Jolie, how she was lied to by the medical system.
They have a very aggressive “Cancer Woo" campaign at the moment and have a whole separate initiative called “Cancer Killers" http://www.beacancerkiller.com/
They try to get all their patients to enroll in a seminar to learn about “what cancer really is". Appropriately or coincidentally this seminar for the branch in my local town (Toronto Ontario) is held at a church.
They are even involved in an upcoming documentary film of the same/similar title “Cancer Killers" coming out soon (I’m sure it will be an amazing piece of cinema).
They even criticize the “The pink ribbon of breast cancer awareness" initiative. (in their waiting room videos) saying “with all that money they collect there is still no cure! where has the money gone" type of arguments (more big pharma conspiracy I suppose).
They run the organization like a fast food franchise, if a Chiropractor wants to brand his practice as “Maximized Living" and become a part of full partner branch, he has to follow their business model to the letter, attend their regular seminars and the result is all of the doctor/patient interactions are FULLY scripted.
The purpose of the scripts of course is to use a standardized set of “best practices" for scare tactics that push the notion of:
a) You have a subluxation,
b) subluxation is serious and scary,
c) only Maximized Living Chiropractic can cure this, other chiropractors only “mask symptoms, we treat the CAUSE",
d) Medicine and conventional doctors lie to you, and
e) Lifetime adjustments are needed to ensure lasting health (never get cancer / prevent all disease).
They pretty much only diagnose subluxation, regardless of your reason for walking in the door. It’s all included in the scripts to demonstrate the “best way to break the news to the patient" that they have a subluxation and how serious it is.
Even office assistants and front desk employees are scripted and trained at these seminars on how to recruit new would be patients, and maintain retention of current ones (a.k.a don’t miss an appointment, every missed appointment is a foot in the grave) and get them to bring in their family.
In fact when you are a new patient they have a sort of “welcome to ML orientation" that it is mandatory that you bring your spouse or significant other in if you have one. (you know, because if you don’t get your family in here, its as much as a death sentence for cancer or other disease that you could have prevented if you cared enough to get them here).
They are very costly and always prescribe long term programs and encourage lifetime adjustments.
They pretty much run a human assembly line of patients with a meticulous system to be able to crack as many backs in a day as humanly possible with very little time for each patient to see the chiropractor. (sometimes as little 3-5 minutes, just crack crack go see the assistant) The Dr. Literally goes from cracking station to cracking station giving everyone a few adjustments and then sends them of with an assistant to finish paperwork and get them out the door, and the next one in, I hate t be redundant but it’s a virtual assembly line they have setup.
They constantly train the staff on ways to process the patients faster to get them through a revolving door.
They actually speak at their seminars of “great examples of ML Chiropractors" who run the most successful practices as they “see the most patients in a day" and encourage the other doctors in attendance to look them as an example. And the successful ones to share their “trade secrets" for inspiration.
I could go on but you get the picture…
The reason I know all this is my girlfriend worked/works at one of their offices while attending CMCC here in Toronto. Initially she got all wrapped up in it telling me all the crazy health revelations she was learning at this office and was attending their seminars. Then she took me to one where I was completely shocked as to the insanity I heard. It felt like I was at a cult. One of the speakers Dr. Cliff Hardick literally cried when speaking of the magic he feels in his heart when he performs an adjustment feels the bone move and “knows he’s saving their life". They speak as if they want to overthrow the current medical system a replace it with their version of Chiropractic. Cliff Hardick literally said “I envisions a future that when my children’s children get sick, they don’t go to a hospital, they go to a Chiropractor".
After a few months of this when my girlfriend wasn’t feeling well she started refusing to go to the doctor and insisted all she needed was an adjustment!! It was madness and I insisted (with much resistance) to go to the hospital and turned out she had a pretty bad kidney infection that was left too long!! (don’t worry she has come around now and realizes they are crazy after much influence from me and the evidence based info her school teaches that contradicts the woo her employer was filling her head with).
I really feel the need to expose this organisation and have no idea how one goes about doing this (aside from getting James Randi on the phone). I have extensively searched the internet looking for them to see if others are “on to them" and they are virtually non existent except their own websites. No blogs about them, no wikipedia articles, rational-wiki, or wiki website articles of any kind anywhere.
None of their most prominent leaders or doctors have any Wikipedia articles I could find, its weird because most (you would think) prominent names of significant scientists, doctors, heads of major companies or corporations have some trace on Wikipedia, but nothing.
I think this organisation should be a major concern that requires “outing" and attention drawn to it not unlike the Discovery Institute and their deceptive ways.
I would love to see organisations like CFI, or vloggers like thunderf00t and c0nc0rdance, or other skeptic websites like skeptoid or skeptic society take aim at exposing them as the frauds they are. It almost seems they have flown under the skeptic movement radar?
Is this a cause worth drawing attention to? or am I freaking out?
Their founders: http://www.maximizedliving.com/AboutMaximizedLiving/Founders.aspx
Love to hear from you guys
Hello, looking for a little advice here…
Thanks for the post RR. I’m not sure how much help I can be here but if I could make a few points.
Big Pharma/Medicine conspiracy - All the quacks use this argument but it amazes me that their followers don’t see the hypocrisy. Complimentary and Alternative Medicine (CAM) providers aren’t exactly providing their services out of the goodness of their heart. sCAM medicine is a multibillion dollar industry. At least traditional medicine puts billions into research. sCAM medicine devotes virtually nothing to research yet they want everyone to believe its the traditional medicine doctors who are conspiring to steal their money and keep them sick.
All healing comes from the body - Well this isn’t really flawed, its a fact. Without a functioning immune system and repair mechanisms no disease could be cured. In fact this is the basis of traditional medicine. Antibiotics impair bacterial functions so the immune system can get the upper hand and destroy them. Vaccines essentially provide intelligence to our immune system about an impending invasion so it can prepare its defenses before the enemy invades. Even many new cancer treatments work by taking advantage of our bodies own defense mechanisms. When it comes to disease prevention, despite the claims of alt med providers, traditional medicine has been the leader in the science of preventive medicine by studying links between diet, habits, exercise, and disease. It was traditional medicine that led the war against smoking. Traditional medicine brought to light the issues with increased cholesterol consumption and heart disease as well as diet and diabetes. The list is endless. Traditional medicine invented preventive medicine. sCAM medicine providers are simply pretenders who use a combination of real methods co-opted from traditional medicine and unproven useless techniques which they made up out of thin air.
Its interesting that the Chiropractors claim that all healing comes from the body yet somehow the body needs their manipulation in order to heal itself. Just more hipocrisy.
In regards to your girlfriend the solution may depend on her mind set and whether she is willing to listen to reason. If she is then sit down with her and try to do some legitimte research on the practices of this group. There are lots of studies on subluxation and chiropractic care. You first need to teach her a little about science if she is not already familiar with the different kinds of studies otherwise she may not understand why some studies show benefits and other do not. Give her a basic primer on retrospective studies and prospective studies as well as randomized and controlled studies and why those things are important. Once you do that go to pub med and start pulling up some articles and see what you find. If she is someone who is drawn to religious and faith based belief system you may not may much luck reasoning with her but if she is somewhat rationale then its worth a try
As far as doing something on a societal level I’m not sure ow much you can do aside from educating family and friends when these sorts of issues come up. Protesting in front of the offices where your girlfriend worked might get the problem some attention but not necessarily the kind you want. The media is so focused on presenting a “balanced picture” of any controversy that what they end up doing is artificially balancing an unbalanced argument. By bringing the problems of this organization to public attention you may simply give them publicity and a sympathetic voice in the media. If they are below the radar now it may just be best to leave them there and not help them draw in more followers.
Thanks for the reply macgyver, and I really didn’t consider the aspect of “no publicity is bad publicity” unnecessary media aspect. That actually makes a lot of sense. I just guess seeing first hand how they operate willingly spreading unfounded false information (mixed with credible nutrition based info) as well established medical science and health information really troubles me. It’s like they applied the same scare tactics of “Hellfire” that are used to persuade people to religion, to the scare tactics of “disease”, “subluxation” and “big pharma” to persuade people to their woo healthcare product. It just bothers me, a lot.
The other aspect that bothers me (almost more) is the general publics awareness… of the history, about the unproven concept of the subluxaion, D.D Palmers Séance attending, magnetic healing, mystic belief bollocks… are not known by the general public. Awareness of the divide of chiropractic between those that stay true to D.D’s nonsense, from those that acknowledge its not evidence based and abandon it to reform the discipline. I had never heard of ANY of this until researching it recently, and this is not known by the general public. And when you see a “Chiropractors office” there is no way to know which one of the two you just walked into, until they open their mouth, and that is only if you are aware of this stuff, which as I sated most people don’t. So the “ML’s” of the world steal credibility from this general consensus that chiropractic is a generally sound socially accepted aspect of health care analogous to MD’s and trust what everything the man in the white coat says… This troubles me…
Maybe outing Maximized Living isn’t the answer, “outing” the fields perhaps “dirty laundry” and a public education of the pseudo science founding of chiropractic and it’s current divided status, so when people go to a chiropractor they know how to recognize which they are dealing with and evaluate their claims. I dunno maybe a CFI “WTF is a subluxation” campaign" lol.
Anyway…as for my girlfriend she has already come around, her college teaches evidence based curriculum, and to toot my own horn along side my pleading with her to consider their claims. So she’s well back from the dark-side of the force.
Glad to hear your girlfriend has come around. She sounds like a keeper.
I think you’re right that outing this particular chain would not do any good. Better to try educating the public about the entire field.
I replied early but must have pushed wrong key…anyway met these guys last night…Fraud.
I went to a dinner where they told us that every disease known to man was curable by only having a proper spine. So i said what are you doing in this persons living room then? if you could cure every disease in the world you should be on the front page of magazines and winning the nobel prize. becoming instant billionaires too. They do it for the love of people and God and Jesus and all that stuff.
Sounding too good to be true, I went to one of their clinics in my home town. and got an xray and listened to a 2nd presentation.
He got really aggrivated when i asked how fixing sublaxions in the spine could cure polio , HIV and TB. He said he would get really angry if he had to discuss vaccinations during the presentation so i shouldnt ask that and should come back when he does a presentation on vaccinations.
So being disease free for the rest of your life, not needing any medications for anything ever again, no symptoms of anything wrong with you at all… just by going to a chiropractor 3 times a week. THATS all you have to do… thats it. nothing more.
Sounds too good to be true doesnt it?
I went to a dinner where they told us that every disease known to man was curable by only having a proper spine. So i said what are you doing in this persons living room then? if you could cure every disease in the world you should be on the front page of magazines and winning the nobel prize. becoming instant billionaires too. They do it for the love of people and God and Jesus and all that stuff. Sounding too good to be true, I went to one of their clinics in my home town. and got an xray and listened to a 2nd presentation. He got really aggrivated when i asked how fixing sublaxions in the spine could cure polio , HIV and TB. He said he would get really angry if he had to discuss vaccinations during the presentation so i shouldnt ask that and should come back when he does a presentation on vaccinations. So being disease free for the rest of your life, not needing any medications for anything ever again, no symptoms of anything wrong with you at all..... just by going to a chiropractor 3 times a week. THATS all you have to do.. thats it. nothing more. Sounds too good to be true doesnt it?Stay away from all things chiropractic. It's been debunked many times. Learn to think critically and skeptically. You'll become a happier, more well rounded and less confused person. There are courses in most colleges and universities, but stay away from religious institutions and any that teach chiropractic. Meanwhile, read this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking Lois
I’m so glad I found this thread. I was looking for a chiropractor and ended up at ML. My first visit felt really strange. It wasn’t just a doctor visit, but you had to watch a video clip then answer questions about a holistic approach. I’ve tried to do some research on the internet but didn’t find a thing, positive or negative. I really can’t afford to go a chiropractor frequently and for an extended period.
Thanks for posting this thread.
I'm so glad I found this thread. I was looking for a chiropractor and ended up at ML. My first visit felt really strange. It wasn't just a doctor visit, but you had to watch a video clip then answer questions about a holistic approach. I've tried to do some research on the internet but didn't find a thing, positive or negative. I really can't afford to go a chiropractor frequently and for an extended period. Thanks for posting this thread.Not having enough money can be a blessing in disguise. Lois
I am one of the victims of Maximized Living who was lured by the dinner given by the doctor. During the dinner the doctor made a presentation by showing the spinal cord from head to hip and said every disease has a cure by taking care of your nerve system. I have arthritis on both my knees and have severe pain while bending the knees and that was the reason for my visit to the doctor. During the presentation the doctor said he his clinic visit normal charges are $140 but with the dinner invitation it is $40 only. I thought that it is not a bad idea to just throw $40 and if I don’t like the entire process after the first evaluation, I will just lose $40 or will think that the free dinner cost me $40.
So, I visited the clinic in Toronto for my first evaluation. I was given a presentation on the Ipad, some X-rays were taken by the technician, and finally I saw the doctor, who after looking at the X-rays said to me that I have multiple problems after reading my health data form which they asked me to fill in, and he immediately asked the receptionist to book an appointment ASAP and she found a slot on the next day. She gave me a slip for $40 which I though that will be for the assessment. During my second visit, the nurse asked me to to some exercises for neck and some movement exercises while seating on a soft rubber cushion on the chair and after that the doctor did some rubbing on my spinal cord, knees and neck.
I was asked to come once again before the final assessment of how much and how long it will take to fully recover (there was very little mention of the knee pain for which I visited the doctor). When I went to reception for making next two appointment she first charged me $80 which I reluctantly paid as I was under the impression that the full assessment will be only $40. Also, she mentioned that for the next two visits I will pay $40 each or $80 for next two visits, totaling $160 in all for full assessment. I later cancelled all the appointments when I went to this website to find out that it is a SCAM and it is not Maximized Living, but it is really a MAXIMIZED FRAUD. Therefore, if I had waited until the full assessment, I would have paid $160 in all which is $140 for their normal consulting fee and $20 for the dinner.
THE DINNER WAS NOT FREE BUT IT WAS A TRAP TO AN INNOCENT RETIRED PERSON.
. . . I was asked to come once again before the final assessment of how much and how long it will take to fully recover (there was very little mention of the knee pain for which I visited the doctor). When I went to reception for making next two appointment she first charged me $80 which I reluctantly paid as I was under the impression that the full assessment will be only $40. Also, she mentioned that for the next two visits I will pay $40 each or $80 for next two visits, totaling $160 in all for full assessment. I later cancelled all the appointments when I went to this website to find out that it is a SCAM and it is not Maximized Living, but it is really a MAXIMIZED FRAUD. Therefore, if I had waited until the full assessment, I would have paid $160 in all which is $140 for their normal consulting fee and $20 for the dinner. THE DINNER WAS NOT FREE BUT IT WAS A TRAP TO AN INNOCENT RETIRED PERSON.There's no such thing as a free dinner! Anything that is being sold at a dinner seminar is bound to be fraudulent. It's about the same as going to a time share seminar. I have similar problems with my hip and knee. If you want to know, I can tell you in a private message what helped and didn't help me (no cure, but I've had some relief with medical care). Lois
It is too bad that the practice of chiropractic itself is dragged down by the whole maximized living movement. chiropractic health care is actually a very positive, efficient means of improving one’s musculoskeletal health and this has been proven time and again by studies which appear in a number of notable medical journals.
So when you see an entry on this blog that says “avoid all things chiropractic”…well that statement is an opinion and a poorly researched one at that…
However, i encourage patients and potential patients alike to be careful in choosing your chiropractor.
some things to look for…
- when you phone in to inquire, ask to speak with the Dr. and ask him or her if you will be required to sign a contract…if so, run the other way…
- if you are told upfront after your exam that you will need 80 visits…just decline and go elsewhere. No Chiropractor anywhere can predict that you will need that much care after a first exam. That number of visits is calculated by their practice management company and has nothing to do with your health.
- if you are asked to come to an evening talk, or bring your spouse/children…again, garbage
- If you are seeing a dr. that only “corrects subluxations”…again, just go elsewhere…“I only correct subluxations and let the body heal itself” is code for “I’m too lazy or dumb to actually diagnose your problem and i wouldn’t know where to send you even if i was able to recognize a real concern anyway”
By all means though folks don’t let the whole maximized living thing disuade you from seeking chiropractic care for your issue. You will be pleasantly surprised at how much chiropractic will help you in a short period of time. You should notice improvement within the first 1-2 weeks of care and a good chiropractic doctor will also give you exercises to further enhance your healing.
It is too bad that the practice of chiropractic itself is dragged down by the whole maximized living movement. chiropractic health care is actually a very positive, efficient means of improving one's musculoskeletal health and this has been proven time and again by studies which appear in a number of notable medical journals. Except that there isn't a grain of objective evidence that it does anything but defraud people. There is NO evidence that chiropractic has any physical effect on the body. Chiropractors have yet to show any objective evidence that chiropractic has any positive effect on the human body. As for curing or preventing disease, it's a complete fraud. If you think you need some kind of manipulation, go to a qualified physical therapist. So when you see an entry on this blog that says "avoid all things chiropractic"...well that statement is an opinion and a poorly researched one at that... However, i encourage patients and potential patients alike to be careful in choosing your chiropractor. some things to look for... 1) when you phone in to inquire, ask to speak with the Dr. and ask him or her if you will be required to sign a contract...if so, run the other way... 2) if you are told upfront after your exam that you will need 80 visits...just decline and go elsewhere. No Chiropractor anywhere can predict that you will need that much care after a first exam. That number of visits is calculated by their practice management company and has nothing to do with your health. 3) if you are asked to come to an evening talk, or bring your spouse/children...again, garbage 4) If you are seeing a dr. that only "corrects subluxations"...again, just go elsewhere..."I only correct subluxations and let the body heal itself" is code for "I'm too lazy or dumb to actually diagnose your problem and i wouldn't know where to send you even if i was able to recognize a real concern anyway" By all means though folks don't let the whole maximized living thing disuade you from seeking chiropractic care for your issue. You will be pleasantly surprised at how much chiropractic will help you in a short period of time. You should notice improvement within the first 1-2 weeks of care and a good chiropractic doctor will also give you exercises to further enhance your healing.
“no evidence that chiropractic works”
ok thanks for posting that comment. It confirms my suspicion that you have no merit to what you say…
The Hendryson Report — a military orthopaedic ward study:
During WWII Irvin Hendryson, MD, a member of the American Medical Association board of trustees, conducted a clinical comparison study of GIs treated medically. The army provided him with an ideal climate of patient control, and little patient rapport other than discussion of the soldiers’ specific ailments. He sent the results of his study to the AMA, which years later were made public.
Conclusions: Chiropractic had impressive success with some medical failures, and the chiropractic adjustments were at least as effective as some of the best army treatments available. Therefore, chiropractic care should be an integral part of all medical orthopaedic wards. He also noted that chiropractic had significant success with women in their third trimester of pregnancy, as women were able to carry and deliver their children with more comfort when receiving chiropractic adjustments.
Oregon Worker’s Compensation Study:
A review of worker’s compensation records compiled in a study by Rolland A Martin, MD, in 1971 compared the results of chiropractic and medical treatment for patients with comparable back ailments.
Conclusions: 82 per cent returned to work within one week under chiropractic care, and 42 per cent returned to work within one week under medical care.Therefore, patients under chiropractic care got well in one-half the time as those under medical care, and suffered only one-half as much.
The Silverman AV Med HMO Study:
A clinical study was performed using the first 100 patients sent to the Silverman Chiropractic centre by AV Med, the largest medical health maintenance organisation in the south-eastern United States.
Conclusions: Prior to chiropractic adjustments, 80 of 100 patients were treated medically, seeing an average of 1.6 medical doctors without results. Seventeen were medically diagnosed with disc problems, and 12 were diagnosed as needing disc surgery. After chiropractic adjustments, 86 per cent had their ailments corrected, none required surgery, and none were made worse.
Herbert Davis, MD, medical director of AV Med and author of the study, concluded that chiropractic adjustments saved AV Med US$250,000 in surgical costs. He further admitted that he was originally a sceptic, and the study proved to be an “eye-opening experience” on the effectiveness of chiropractic.
State of California Industrial Back Injury Study:
In a study conducted by Richard Wolf, MD, in 1972, 1,000 patients were questioned about work time loss and residual pain. Six hundred and twenty-nine responded, with 50 per cent treated medically and 50 per cent receiving chiropractic care.
Patient time loss was cut in half with chiropractic care in all three categories, suggesting that chiropractic is very effective for back injuries.
sorry to dispel your nonsense comment with the facts…there are plenty of other studies…Every one is entitled to be wrong in their opinion…no one is entitled to be wrong in the facts …
Do you have any scientific studies to back your claim or just a cut-and-paste job from The Jamaica Observer?
what does it matter where they are cut and pasted from, so long as the studies are legit…which they are…there are a number of other studies including this from the British Medical Journal
Chiropractic and the British Medical Journal on Back Pain
Posted on 03.13.10 |
Chiropractor and Back PainChiropractic care continues to be well known for helping people with acute and chronic low back pain, as well as neck pain, migraine headaches, and other common spine related maladies.
With low back pain being a chief complaint so often it my profession, it can be easy is to take the success chiropractors have had when treating this problem. While I personally prefer to focus on larger nervous system dysfunction of the body, a proven benefit of these spinal adjustments is a reduction in spinal pain, low back or otherwise.
With that in mind, I am actually focusing this blog post on back pain specifically, and no better than some information compiled by Dr. Dan Murphy, D.C.
Here is a review from the editors of The Lancet regarding findings of effectiveness of chiropractic adjustments and the expertise in which a chiropractor manages low back pain from a randomized study done by the peer reviewed British Medical Journalm, June 2nd, 1990. The study itself compares chiropractic treatment effectiveness to hospital outpatient treatment. The study utilized 741 patients.
They note: The article “showed a strong and clear advantage for patients with chiropractic."
The advantage for chiropractic over conventional hospital treatment was “not a trivial amount" and “reflects the difference between having mild pain, the ability to lift heavy weights without extra pain, and the ability to sit for more than one hour, compared with moderate pain, the ability to lift heavy weights only if they are
conveniently positioned, and being unable to sit for more than 30 minutes."
“This highly significant difference occurred not only at 6 weeks, but also for 1, 2, and even (in 113 patients followed so far) 3 years after treatment."
“Surprisingly, the difference was seen most strongly in patients with chronic symptoms."
“The trial was not simply a trial of manipulation but of management" as 84% of the hospital-managed patients had manipulations.
“Chiropractic treatment should be taken seriously by conventional medicine, which means both doctors and physiotherapists."
“Physiotherapists need to shake off years of prejudice and take on board the skills that the chiropractors have developed so successfully."
Britain is also know as England and is a country across the ocean…given the level of knowledge you seem to have, i thought it fair to clarify that point ahead of time
Your suggestion that patients seek manipulative therapy from a physiotherapist is ridiculous and smacks of serious bias against chiropractic…why would you recommend someone be adjusted/manipulated by a physiotherapist who learns manipulation in a weekend seminar vs. a doctor of chiropractic who has years of training in this skill…?
ok thanks for posting that comment. It confirms my suspicion that you have no merit to what you say….Thanks for posting this comment. It confirms my suspicion that you are a closed-minded zealot. Ok, maybe I was a bit hasty, but you won't get very far making any kind of case about any subject around here if you begin by assuming you can blithely dismiss anyone who disagrees with you this way. By all means, if you have evidence share it, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously if you start playing the game of assuming anyone who doesn't see it your way is ignorant or has malign motives. As for evidence, Science-based Medicine has a great collection of articles] reviewing the evidence and many of the controversies regarding chiropractic. Anyone interested would also do well to read Snake Oil Science by R. Barker Bausell, and Trick or Treatment by Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst. They analyze the literature in detail. The bottom line goes roughly like this: 1. No such thing as a subluxation or vertebral subluxation complex, so the traditional theoretical basis of chiro is bogus 2. No reliable evidence for any benefit for any non-musculoskeletal condition 3. Some evidence suggesting it is as effective for idiopathic lower back pain as standard care (physical therapy, rest, analgesics, time). However, even this last one seems to be slipping away based on the latest update to the Cochrane review: Rubinstein SM, Terwee CB, Assendelft WJ, de Boer MR, van Tulder MW. Spinal manipulative therapy for acute low back pain: an update of the Cochrane review. Spine (Phila Pa 1976). 2013 Feb 1;38(3):E158-77. "SMT is no more effective for acute low back pain than inert interventions, sham SMT or as adjunct therapy. SMT also seems to be no better than other recommended therapies." The major risks are basilar artery tears and strokes from cervical manipulation and the large pile of BS often sold along with a possibly mildly helpful version of massage.
wow…you sure have a hate on for chiropractic…You might find it interesting that over the last number of years, chiropractic has gained a more secure foothold in the scientific community. In Canada, where i reside, there are now 15 research chair positions at the major universities here which are held by DC, Phd’s. 20 years ago, that wouldn’t have ever happened.
I hate to burst your bubble…but you are fighting a losing battle if you think you are going to do away with this profession…why don’t you refocus all of your energy on, for instance, the unjust practices in the profession like that of Maximized living etc.
Organized medicine tried for decades to quash this profession and failed miserably…Google wilks anti trust lawsuit…what makes you think your crusade will fare better?
It’s a complete waste of money and time as there’s no evidence that it works. But since it’s how you make a living, I can understand why you would defend it.
(By the way, winning legal battles and being allowed to remain in business does not support any of the claims made by chiropractors.)
wow...you sure have a hate on for chiropractic...You might find it interesting that over the last number of years, chiropractic has gained a more secure foothold in the scientific community. In Canada, where i reside, there are now 15 research chair positions at the major universities here which are held by DC, Phd's. 20 years ago, that wouldn't have ever happened. I hate to burst your bubble...but you are fighting a losing battle if you think you are going to do away with this profession...why don't you refocus all of your energy on, for instance, the unjust practices in the profession like that of Maximized living etc. Organized medicine tried for decades to quash this profession and failed miserably...Google wilks anti trust lawsuit....what makes you think your crusade will fare better?When you can come up with scientifically valid tests that uphold the claims of chiropractic, we'll take another look. So far there have been no tests, no matter how many people, even people at universities, who have been scammed by empty claims. Not everyone at universities demands scientific tests. There are STILL no peer reviewed tests that show objective evidence that chiropractic is any more effective than snake oil. Since you seem to be convinced, you should have no trouble in designing scientifically valid tests that would show it works. Why would the chiropractic community refuse to do this? More talk will not work. None of the cttations you provided are based on scientifically valid tests, nor have they been published in recognized peer reviewed journals. Until that happens you can expect more skepticism about and denigration of chiropractic.