Like the anti-harassment laws, I think the change will begin the workplace.]
And like everything, America is behind on this issue. My County (that is, as an employer) recently adopted a statement against bullying for its workers. It was rather quietly done, but some test cases are in the works. I would recommend any organization consider doing something similar.
Like the anti-harassment laws, I think the change will begin the workplace.] And like everything, America is behind on this issue. My County (that is, as an employer) recently adopted a statement against bullying for its workers. It was rather quietly done, but some test cases are in the works. I would recommend any organization consider doing something similar.I like that. Thank you for sharing. :) MzL
@ Anti-Bullying laws - The government can’t make any difference in what a private group does - unless the group takes government money that is. If an atheist club (or any other club) is insensitive in some way, don’t associate with it.
I just want to say how lucky you are that you even had that much! I live near a pretty large Southern city and we don’t have an atheist organization or a humanist organization. Philosophically speaking, all I have to talk to is the people on this forum. My advice to you is hang on like GRIM DEATH to those few friends you made. You don’t necessarily need a big fancy organization. What I wouldn’t do for just a few friends to hang out with from time to time!
@ Anti-Bullying laws - The government can't make any difference in what a private group does - unless the group takes government money that is. If an atheist club (or any other club) is insensitive in some way, don't associate with it.That's kinda like saying, if you don't like what WalMart is doing, don't shop there. Yes, our individual dollar, spent or not spent, can make a difference, but the rules of law and reason are designed to protect those with few dollars and small groups with few dollars. The government didn't invent anti-sexual harassment laws, they grew out of people claiming to have rights that went against the culture and the majority. A club, like a business, has protections under law and therefore has responsibilities. They can't collect dues saying they are for some club purpose, then build a deck at the director's home. You have some weird definition of "private group". I've never heard of an atheist group of any kind that declares itself "private" to the extent of excluding women or claiming it has the right to act unconscionably against women. No one would join that group. That's not what this group did, they claimed to be a group that promoted reason, they welcomed women, then they did not act in good faith according to their charter. That is immoral on the face of it and although it might take some time and a good lawyer, it's illegal.
Can you name the top woman in the Nazi party, the Zionist party, a Muslims nation, the Vatican or Gaza?
Or the top woman rabbi.
Yet history tells us that it was not always this way.
In the start of the dark ages, most of the healers were women, wasn’t true by the end of the dark ages.
Back when you had the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God was called by his name and not by his title.
And women held the high offices of prophets and judges.
As god became more powerful the women became less powerful.
Now I don’t know if it is a ploy against women or the more powerful an organizations gets the more it becomes a dog eat dog leadership.
Women might be just a little smarter and refuse to engage in that type of back stabbing politics.
When it comes to armies, the leadership is mostly male.
I have read the reason was that women were not allowed to head armies because they were unmorality mean and would fight to the last man and not surrender.
Don’t know if that is true or just a fable.
But one day I will get around to reading about the Amazon warriors and their battles.
Can you name the top woman in the Nazi party, the Zionist party, a Muslims nation, the Vatican or Gaza? Or the top woman rabbi. Yet history tells us that it was not always this way.I'll see if I can find the reference, but I read once of a theory that the story of Abraham going to Egypt and having his wife pretend to fall in love with the Pharaoh is a rewrite of an earlier story where a more powerful priestess was in control of the situation. The rewrite was intended to put the men in the power positions.
Great.
Nefertiti is one of my favorite Pharaohs.
Sr. Member Total Posts: 937 Joined 2005-01-14 I just want to say how lucky you are that you even had that much! I live near a pretty large Southern city and we don’t have an atheist organization or a humanist organization. Philosophically speaking, all I have to talk to is the people on this forum. My advice to you is hang on like GRIM DEATH to those few friends you made. You don’t necessarily need a big fancy organization. What I wouldn’t do for just a few friends to hang out with from time to time!Same here Advocatus. The closest humanist organization is a three hour drive from here, but there are 7 churches within walking distance of our house. This forum is a, uh can't actually say "god send" but you know what I mean. There are exactly four of us here in the village (probably more but they're hiding I'm sure) and I hang out with only one. Man, what I wouldn't give to be part of a group of freethinkers male and female. Cap't Jack
I just want to say how lucky you are that you even had that much! I live near a pretty large Southern city and we don't have an atheist organization or a humanist organization. Philosophically speaking, all I have to talk to is the people on this forum. My advice to you is hang on like GRIM DEATH to those few friends you made. You don't necessarily need a big fancy organization. What I wouldn't do for just a few friends to hang out with from time to time!Thanks for the reality check. You're right, of course, there are many who live in places even worse than Oklahoma about being secular. We are very vocal here and have started something very strong and growing. We are out and proud, so to speak and becoming not only more popular but more accepted. I will take what you said to heart. I think I might even try going to an event with the big group. Maybe just a social event, no meeting. Nothing says I have to stay or even go back if I don't like it. I do have friends that I can surround myself with (emotionally) for support. I'll let you know if I do. Thanks. :) MzL
Thank you to everyone for your posts and encouragement.
You’re some kick-ass non-myth-illogical people!
Lee
I have been absent from my atheist community for two years now. I was very active and loved the community I needed so much. When I was drove out I suffered the loss of friends, community and I was so vulnerable by the disassociation that I became depressed and could barely function except to work and give myself basic care. I am at sea and I still fear the natives on the only land in sight. MzLee (Sorry, this issue took so many turns. It's been churning in my head for some time now and once I started spewing it sort of just all came up. Please just respond to what interests you, if any, and leave the rest as flotsam and jetsam. Thx)After such a traumatic experience I would think you would be sensitive to these impacts on others... From the thread entitled(paraphrase):"Can someone recommend any good science documentaries."
Carl-Sagan - 20 July 2014 10:24 AM Preferably something recent. I’ve already seen the new cosmos series thanks in advance
Mz. Lee-I have to say, I think your use of CS name is very off-putting to me. I thought about not saying anything and ignoring you completely but decided on the direct and honest approach. It’s your right to choose whichever name you want but I find it disrespectful to his memory and all that he gave the world… it is also telling, IMO. I speak only for myself so there are many here who may still converse with you.This was from a number of weeks back but I wanted to raise this contrast. An internet forum avatar and a hokey name. We all have them. Some have Galileo or Copernicus as their avatars. Some use famous composers as names, or cities, or etc.. This poor guy comes along on his 7th-8th post and asks if someone can recommend some good science documentaries. Perhaps he or she wanted to be a member of the community here. We'll never know because after this reply from you Mz. Lee, he's gone. A hokey internet name like Carl Sagan and a desire to find some science documentaries...that's all. I hope the person has more intestinal fortitude than you Mz Lee. I hope this person is able to function after this. I for one hope he is using the name Carl Sagan still. Whoopie doo!! It's the internet.
That is an interesting contrast, something that I see happen quite often in business and friendships. MZLee tells a story of vilification, name calling and intimidation. You reference a post where she expressed her opinion with reason. When someone expresses an opinion, no matter how strongly you disagree with it, you have at two choices (a spectrum of course, this is not a dichotomy); react with anger and accusations OR respond to what was said explaining your difference of opinion or perhaps the fallacy in theirs. There is no way to respond reasonably to name calling, other than to point out that it is unreasonable.
MZ and all of us have the right to ignore others and explain why we’re doing it. You’ve done it to me. I didn’t deny you that right. You can also complain about other’s complaints. But you have people here who are good at making reasonable arguments, you should expect some discussion.
Anyone got a problem with me changing my tag to “God”? 
I just want to say how lucky you are that you even had that much! I live near a pretty large Southern city and we don't have an atheist organization or a humanist organization. Philosophically speaking, all I have to talk to is the people on this forum. My advice to you is hang on like GRIM DEATH to those few friends you made. You don't necessarily need a big fancy organization. What I wouldn't do for just a few friends to hang out with from time to time!Advocatus, have you tried this group? http://www.google.com/search?q=http://www.meetup.com/CSRANT/&newwindow=1
I have been absent from my atheist community for two years now. I was very active and loved the community I needed so much. When I was drove out I suffered the loss of friends, community and I was so vulnerable by the disassociation that I became depressed and could barely function except to work and give myself basic care. I am at sea and I still fear the natives on the only land in sight. MzLee (Sorry, this issue took so many turns. It's been churning in my head for some time now and once I started spewing it sort of just all came up. Please just respond to what interests you, if any, and leave the rest as flotsam and jetsam. Thx)After such a traumatic experience I would think you would be sensitive to these impacts on others... From the thread entitled(paraphrase):"Can someone recommend any good science documentaries."
Carl-Sagan - 20 July 2014 10:24 AM Preferably something recent. I’ve already seen the new cosmos series thanks in advance
Mz. Lee-I have to say, I think your use of CS name is very off-putting to me. I thought about not saying anything and ignoring you completely but decided on the direct and honest approach. It’s your right to choose whichever name you want but I find it disrespectful to his memory and all that he gave the world… it is also telling, IMO. I speak only for myself so there are many here who may still converse with you.This was from a number of weeks back but I wanted to raise this contrast. An internet forum avatar and a hokey name. We all have them. Some have Galileo or Copernicus as their avatars. Some use famous composers as names, or cities, or etc.. This poor guy comes along on his 7th-8th post and asks if someone can recommend some good science documentaries. Perhaps he or she wanted to be a member of the community here. We'll never know because after this reply from you Mz. Lee, he's gone. A hokey internet name like Carl Sagan and a desire to find some science documentaries...that's all. I hope the person has more intestinal fortitude than you Mz Lee. I hope this person is able to function after this. I for one hope he is using the name Carl Sagan still. Whoopie doo!! It's the internet. You seem to be saying that MzLee leaving her group was the product of a simple and respectful difference of opinion. We don't know the specifics of that interaction, but we do have the specifics of the interaction of MzLee and pseudo Carl Segan, which does seem to me to have been a simple and respectful difference of opinion. There is no indication that pseudo Carl Segan felt attacked or dominated in any of his posts after that interaction. Perhaps you have a tendency to feel wronged when the topic of male dominance is introduced?
Anyone got a problem with me changing my tag to "God"? :-POk if you drop the cap. :) LOis
You seem to be saying that MzLee leaving her group was the product of a simple and respectful difference of opinion. We don't know the specifics of that interaction,There is that. But I'll take her at her word. That's irrelevant.
but we do have the specifics of the interaction of MzLee and pseudo Carl Segan, which does seem to me to have been a simple and respectful difference of opinion.Pretty much so except for the last part in which she says..."it's also telling." Telling of what? The guy likes Carl Sagan? Telling of what?
There is no indication that pseudo Carl Segan felt attacked or dominated in any of his posts after that interaction.There is an indication. He posted 7-8 times. A new Member posting in a few different threads. After Mz. Lee's comments-no more Carl Sagan. That's an indication he might have been offended-and rightly so.
Perhaps you have a tendency to feel wronged when the topic of male dominance is introduced?No Dan.
I have been absent from my atheist community for two years now. I was very active and loved the community I needed so much. When I was drove out I suffered the loss of friends, community and I was so vulnerable by the disassociation that I became depressed and could barely function except to work and give myself basic care. I am at sea and I still fear the natives on the only land in sight. MzLee (Sorry, this issue took so many turns. It's been churning in my head for some time now and once I started spewing it sort of just all came up. Please just respond to what interests you, if any, and leave the rest as flotsam and jetsam. Thx)After such a traumatic experience I would think you would be sensitive to these impacts on others... From the thread entitled(paraphrase):"Can someone recommend any good science documentaries."
Carl-Sagan - 20 July 2014 10:24 AM Preferably something recent. I’ve already seen the new cosmos series thanks in advance
Mz. Lee-I have to say, I think your use of CS name is very off-putting to me. I thought about not saying anything and ignoring you completely but decided on the direct and honest approach. It’s your right to choose whichever name you want but I find it disrespectful to his memory and all that he gave the world… it is also telling, IMO. I speak only for myself so there are many here who may still converse with you.This was from a number of weeks back but I wanted to raise this contrast. An internet forum avatar and a hokey name. We all have them. Some have Galileo or Copernicus as their avatars. Some use famous composers as names, or cities, or etc.. This poor guy comes along on his 7th-8th post and asks if someone can recommend some good science documentaries. Perhaps he or she wanted to be a member of the community here. We'll never know because after this reply from you Mz. Lee, he's gone. A hokey internet name like Carl Sagan and a desire to find some science documentaries...that's all. I hope the person has more intestinal fortitude than you Mz Lee. I hope this person is able to function after this. I for one hope he is using the name Carl Sagan still. Whoopie doo!! It's the internet. Trolls are so funny. Thanks for the giggle. :lol: