"That is not a theory. It is part of history or a fairy tale." You don't understand any of the words over 4 letters long in this sentence.Then please explain.
I checked out Sam Harris, Thanks I could listen to Sam speak all day, he is that good. But of all the subjects he covers, he does not cover the history of religion. And this is a twist in atheist thinking. I am thinking about putting together a paper and sending it to him for his option.Harris is an excellent philosopher and delves into the mind of the believer and nonbeliever alike. And while I agree with his contentions concerning Xtianity, I found Bart Ehrman, Richard Carrier and Robert Price to be more authoritative on Biblical interpretation. You would do well to read their books on deconstructing the Bible and Qu'ran. Also another favorite is John Dominic Crossan who wrote several books on the life of Jesus and early Xtianity. He was a member of the Jesus Seminar. I began my religious studies by reading his books twenty years ago. Cap't Jack
"That is not a theory. It is part of history or a fairy tale." You don't understand any of the words over 4 letters long in this sentence.Then please explain. Posts 4,8,22,24,26 and a few others
Thanks for the information Cap’t Jack.
I have done very little book reading in my life compared to other media. I do have and read Bart Ehrman, the Lost Christianities. The last book I have read that I really liked was The Lost Gospel by Simcha Jacobovici and Barrie Wilson.
The book I would like to read is The History of Ancient Religions. It seems the last know copy was burned in the fire at the Alexandria Library years ago. 
As I have stated in this post, knowledge seems to be one’s ability to relate one item to another. And some of reading that has helped me understand religion the best is the history of the chicken, olive and cowry shell.
Right now my key interest is in understanding the DNA, gene and stem cells process. The DNA has been one of greatest movers of new understanding today.
The UV Skin study results was no surprise to me. But, I bet is has a lot of religious thinkers chasing their tails right now. The impact of the study should hit the general public in a couple of years.
Which author would best answer my questions the best? I am very interested in Jesus. Did he go to Spain, India? Did he get his education in Alexandria? I would like to know more about his job and high priest hood. Did he write gospels? And the big one, was he a politician going for an office of power? More information about the Temple Mount and bone boxes. Was Christianity or the religion using the bone boxes started before Jesus’s birth? Why is Israel destroying the history of Jesus?I checked out Sam Harris, Thanks I could listen to Sam speak all day, he is that good. But of all the subjects he covers, he does not cover the history of religion. And this is a twist in atheist thinking. I am thinking about putting together a paper and sending it to him for his option.Harris is an excellent philosopher and delves into the mind of the believer and nonbeliever alike. And while I agree with his contentions concerning Xtianity, I found Bart Ehrman, Richard Carrier and Robert Price to be more authoritative on Biblical interpretation. You would do well to read their books on deconstructing the Bible and Qu'ran. Also another favorite is John Dominic Crossan who wrote several books on the life of Jesus and early Xtianity. He was a member of the Jesus Seminar. I began my religious studies by reading his books twenty years ago. Cap't Jack
"That is not a theory. It is part of history or a fairy tale." You don't understand any of the words over 4 letters long in this sentence.Then please explain. Posts 4,8,22,24,26 and a few others I need help here. Tried several directions. Just cannot connect to your point. Where I am at so far. Genesis is looked at by atheists as a fairy tale. Genesis is looked at by Christians or Creationists as part of history. My stand on this is that an atheist is not bound by the limits of the bible and Christian thinking. It is open to all of religion’s ideas and history. The ball game is called “religion" not “Christianity". All we see in the Veda Genesis is history. What we see in the Christianity Genesis is the older Veda ideas being used and added to. With the Christian Genesis going two steps further by giving answers to what the Veda Genesis said could not be answered. And throwing in a deity. Where we end up is, I think to the atheists the Veda Genesis should be looked at as history. And the Christian Genesis should be looked at as a fairy tale. Two months ago, this statement would have been too far out on the limb. But because of the UV findings this subject is now in the middle of the table to be discussed. A couple little translation fixes and the Veda genesis is part of history.
I checked out Sam Harris, Thanks I could listen to Sam speak all day, he is that good. But of all the subjects he covers, he does not cover the history of religion. And this is a twist in atheist thinking. I am thinking about putting together a paper and sending it to him for his option.Harris is an excellent philosopher and delves into the mind of the believer and nonbeliever alike. And while I agree with his contentions concerning Xtianity, I found Bart Ehrman, Richard Carrier and Robert Price to be more authoritative on Biblical interpretation. You would do well to read their books on deconstructing the Bible and Qu'ran. Also another favorite is John Dominic Crossan who wrote several books on the life of Jesus and early Xtianity. He was a member of the Jesus Seminar. I began my religious studies by reading his books twenty years ago. Cap't Jack[/quote ]Harris is a neuroscientist the language he speaks is science which is as close to the truth as possible. grand pa ray
All we see in the Veda Genesis is history.What's a "Veda Genesis"?
All we see in the Veda Genesis is history.What's a "Veda Genesis"? Genesis – Webster: the origin or coming into being of something. Veda, earliest Hindu writings. Rig Veda is hymns that are thought to be some of the oldest of the Veda. The Veda goes back before the written word, or pre-history. FYI - A little more information about why I went in that direction. Some years back I took on the project of trying to get a basic understanding of religion. Not to know all the names and stories. But the backbone of the why, how and when’s. Not for religious reasons, but for a wanting desire to know our ancestors and historical background. The parameters of the project was to obtain data to the point that it could be used in a court trial for someone’s life. I acquired many different types of religious study books and found many internet reference sites. Then started step one of the project in KJV Genesis (1-11). I had cleared my calendar and work load so I could get a running start with this project. I spent around seventy hours a week on this project. Going into the fifth month of the project I had to stop and change the steps of the project. I had made it to Genesis I and 2 and didn’t need to go any further in the bible. The bible’s roadblock was in the translations. Translations is in a world by itself, built on time and location and many other factors. What a certain professional word meant at one time in history at one town, may be use differently at a town forty miles away. But that was not even the problem. The problem was the original text had not been translated. What was happening was the original text was being evolved to the newer concepts of religious thinking. It was not a translation problem at all. Latter I could see where this made logical sense do to the fact to the time the text was written, the priests were captives of the Assyrians and living at Babylon. The Juda god could not be more powerful than the Assyrian god. But it had to follow the Egyptian thinking to be use by the people of Juda. And the Assyrians knew that and allowed the “word" concept to be used. The Zoroastrian was monolithic religion. The Juda religion had to use many gods. And there seemed to be an effort to use local gods of the Canaan region. Like the god of the cedar trees in Syria. All the gods were being worshiped in the Juda religion at the time. Juda was part of the Religions of the Children of Abraham at the time. What the translation did was to remove the proper names of the gods and call all the gods by the different meanings of the word “GOD". At this point I had no back up support from anyone else for that conclusion. Bartholomew said things that made me think I was on the right trail. So I contacted the Rabbis in Israel that worked with the Dead Sea Scrolls. They had to be the top experts in the world on the subject. To my surprise I did not get that Zionist response I was expecting. They were great and very knowledgeable on the subject. They understood and confirmed the issues. Really the greatest type of experts there is to work with. When the Assyrians had the Juda priests write down their religion, the Assyrians were doing that with all religions. It was the first time the Vedas had been written down. Of all the genesis stories, the Rigveda are said to be the oldest. And it seemed the religion was well understood in most lands. Paul mentioned the levels of heaven and so does the Islam religion. The Veda is pre-deity, but uses heaven and afterlife. Remember I was wanting to understand religion, a much broader subject that includes Christianity. The best genesis that I can give you from the Veda says in my words. The earth and heaven came to be. Earth was made from stardust. Man came to be. Man created god. God created earth. God created man. Man may never know what created the heavens. You can see the problems. There is a translation problem here. The gods were a people and you can’t have god creating god. The Veda was written down in the Age of Deities and remember when the saying were formed, there were no deities around. Veda means “knowledge". So replace the word god with knowledge. And we can make a defense for all the statements except the knowledge (god) created man. Unless man was domesticated. And that’s what the UV study opens the door. Remember to that a lot of Jesus’s saying can be traced right back to the Veda. You can even find modern books that matches Jesus’s saying to that of the Veda.
What the hell are you rambling about?
What the hell are you rambling about?I’m saying when discussing religion, use all knowledge of religion. Not just Christianity. And since new religions evolved from older religions, it helps to understand the concepts used at any given time by understanding the previous root religion.
What the hell are you rambling about?I’m saying when discussing religion, use all knowledge of religion. Not just Christianity. And since new religions evolved from older religions, it helps to understand the concepts used at any given time by understanding the previous root religion. Aside from the languages used inf human interaction, in respect to an interpretation of God, Creation, and Miracles, which is totally "confounded" (as admitted in scripture0, there is only one consistent language, explaining all natural phenomena" and how the universe works. Only the language of mathematic can be universally understood, and contradicts almost all accounts of God, Creation, and Miracles. Therefore, if there is a God, it must have a mathematical nature. Mathematics do not require purpose or intent, it is the nature of the universe itself and a fundamental understanding of abstract mathematics can be found at all levels from the infinitely subtle to the gross expression in reality.. Why is it that this simple truth cannot be found in any scripture, except in the analogies of "divine reward and punishment", which always have an underlying mathematical dynamic?
Mike please read Sam Harris, he knows what he is talking about.I checked out Sam Harris, Thanks I could listen to Sam speak all day, he is that good. But of all the subjects he covers, he does not cover the history of religion. And this is a twist in atheist thinking. I am thinking about putting together a paper and sending it to him for his option. How many religious speakers and writers do you know who cover the history of religion, or even science? I suspect Harris has plenty of knowledge of the history of religion and he has the ability to assess it intellectually. Harris has a BA in philosoohy from Stanford and a PhD in cognitive neuroscience from UCLA. How about you? Lois
What does the history of religion have to do with the question if there is a god.
Throughout the history of religion there used to be a 1000 gods (good ones, bad ones) and they have all disappeared.
But if we are going to introduce history, we must be objective and acknowledge the evil religion has done throughout history, as well as the good.
My first exhibit is he Skeptic’s Annotated Bible. This clearly explains the results of the evolution of various religions throughout history.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
And an historical verifiable act of evil in the name of God. From the lifestory of Hypatia,
But Hypatia’s love for astronomy was to be her doomHypatia
.
What does the history of religion have to do with the question if there is a god. .Everything according to Mike. He thinks all of us have gotten it all wrong. That gods were people that we wrote stories about.
Everything according to Mike. He thinks all of us have gotten it all wrong. That gods were people that we wrote stories about.That's what he's always blathering on about? Okay then. I'm still trying to figure out what he thinks Hinduism has to do with Judaism. Or "Juda religion" as he calls it. This guy really needs to look into the words 'proofreading', 'coherency', and 'organization'.
Everything according to Mike. He thinks all of us have gotten it all wrong. That gods were people that we wrote stories about.That's what he's always blathering on about? Okay then. I'm still trying to figure out what he thinks Hinduism has to do with Judaism. Or "Juda religion" as he calls it. This guy really needs to look into the words 'proofreading', 'coherency', and 'organization'. Yeah, I tried that approach with him. I read the long posts on the first few pages of this thread, but I'm done now. He says he's making it simple for us, then later he'll say it's too complicated to explain. He says he has spent years on this and has file cabinets full of notes, but he won't reference a single author. He's taken the "do your own research" approach to any objections. He makes connections, like Hinduism to Judaism that have long since been debunked, disproven and suffer from a complete lack of evidence.
New definition for God is The human brain. The human brain starts learning as soon as it is formed. New research into the workings of the brain suggest that the brain actually makes decisions before we are aware of it's action. Therefore, everyone should be happy. we each have our own god. Problem solved. This does explain why everyone has a different point of view.My definition of "god" goes something like this: "a spirit or person worshipped or adored, and possessing supernatural powers, often taken to be a personification of some ideal or force of nature, such as War, Fertility, etc." I define "God" -- capitalized, no modifier -- as "a specific god originally invented by the Jews and Christians, taken to be the personification of the universal creative force, responsible for the creation of the universe and everything in it." These definitions are useful in the sense that where I live, this is the way these words are most commonly used. For example, "God tells us that homosexual marriage is wrong." From time to time, people some along to this forum with a "new" definition of God when they want us to start using. I try to read these posts patiently and with an open mind, struggling to understand why they think their definition is better or more useful. Then I try to plug their definition into the way God is used in my life (see above). It doesn't work. People do have differing points of view. But to call your personal point of view "God" is rather misleading. What do you think?
You believe in the spirit world and you claim to have an open mind. How can we have a conversation
What the hell are you rambling about?I’m saying when discussing religion, use all knowledge of religion. Not just Christianity. And since new religions evolved from older religions, it helps to understand the concepts used at any given time by understanding the previous root religion. Aside from the languages used inf human interaction, in respect to an interpretation of God, Creation, and Miracles, which is totally "confounded" (as admitted in scripture0, there is only one consistent language, explaining all natural phenomena" and how the universe works. Only the language of mathematic can be universally understood, and contradicts almost all accounts of God, Creation, and Miracles. Therefore, if there is a God, it must have a mathematical nature. Mathematics do not require purpose or intent, it is the nature of the universe itself and a fundamental understanding of abstract mathematics can be found at all levels from the infinitely subtle to the gross expression in reality.. Why is it that this simple truth cannot be found in any scripture, except in the analogies of "divine reward and punishment", which always have an underlying mathematical dynamic? Yes, I understand what you are saying. There are so many levels of thinking that it kind of depends on where the discussion is coming from. If you sit back and look at the big picture this is what you might see as a direction that the understanding of god is heading. First of all, what is god? It will end up as it always has been a type or form of knowledge and human traits. How and when did god come about to be? It well may turn out that god started a couple hundred thousand years ago as characteristic that started to be passed on in the genes and is part of hereditary carried in the chromosomes, genetic information in long strings of DNA called genes. So everyone is born with the god foundation, which is a craving for knowledge and understanding. This is stuff that most likely you will be discussing on this site five and ten years from now. Right now we need to be able to define god. Create a timeline. Then move god to the brain. We first have to have the relating data so that we can mentally understand by having something to compare to. And this is why we first need to understand the history and evolution of religion.