Is human connection possible?

It’s not preconceived, it’s rather wondering where “your” experiences come from and if they’re truly you own or not like this comment put it:

You think drive and desire are the same thing. Well desire gets copied because u copy another people, if they won’t exists you will have no desire, because also desire is part of the system of beliefs not only how u copy they behaviors, their judgement, and reactions are part of their beliefs, also language is limited and we can’t fully understand other people because you can’t feel what other people feel. So why you don’t accept this and become part of the lacanian club :slight_smile:

The point of the links is that what we take to be the usual might be mistaken. Like with the one of the links I left about sex and how it’s just projection onto the other person, in otherwords just masturbation because you’re using another body and that it requires a fantasy to work. When you have sex you’re just objectifying the other person, so they say.

I can’t unlearn it. I’ve been like this for my whole life and not therapy or meds works on it. I’ve been considering psychoanalysis but the more I read about it the more I get the feeling it’s all junk, but I have nowhere else to go.

As an aside Lacan kinda reads to me like some guy projecting his own failures in his life as some sort of insight on humanity.

None of us do man. I’m not giving you advice. Just sayin’. You are here. This is it.

That’s from the Reddit. And it’s total crap.

Have you spend any time with Carl Jung?
In my twenties I spend a far bit of effort into reading about the great thinkers and their lives, and Carl Jung resonated with me more than any other I can think of.

He had clay feet like the rest of us, but the clarity of his understanding fit with what was happening inside of me, so I imagine he influenced me more than I appreciate. I was also impressed with his life and home and values - I remember the monuments he erected had an effect on me, that I don’t understand, nor need to, suffice it to say it was with great satisfaction that I was able to emulate him in my own old age.

Key details about the stone monument:

  • Symbolic inscriptions The stone is a cube carved with various symbolic inscriptions in Greek and Latin, as well as a mandala of alchemical significance.
  • Jung’s explanation Jung explained in his memoir Memories, Dreams, Reflectionsthat the stone itself was meant to speak, and its inscriptions express esoteric themes of alchemy and the “individuation process”.
  • A memorial to his wife In addition to the monument at the tower, Jung carved a separate memorial stone to his wife, Emma, after her death in 1955. (ironically year of my birth)

This video gives a decent summary. Seems to me it speaks to some of your issues. Maybe give it a gander. Yes it’s fluffed up for the audience, still there’s some understanding to be found in there.

About Carl Jung’s Psychology.
Carl Jung revealed a truth so profound that once it sinks in, your entire perception of life changes forever. You’ve never experienced reality directly — only your own psyche reflected back through it. Every person you meet, every conflict, every loss, is your unconscious trying to become conscious. Life isn’t happening to you. It’s happening through you. In this video, we explore Jung’s most powerful insight — projection — and how recognizing it can dissolve lifelong suffering by turning every problem into revelation.

What you’ll learn:

How Jung’s theory of projection explains every repeating life pattern

Why your unconscious creates your external “reality”

The difference between reacting to mirrors and integrating what they show

How projection transforms relationships, identity, and self-understanding

The one root problem behind all psychological pain: unconsciousness

How shifting from ego to awareness changes everything you experience

Conclusion:
When you finally see that life is not a random sequence of events but a living reflection of your psyche, something irreversible happens — consciousness awakens. Jung’s greatest discovery was not just that we project our unconscious onto the world, but that by recognizing it, we reclaim our power. Every person, every challenge, every emotion becomes a message from the Self, calling you to awareness. You stop searching for meaning outside because you realize: the entire universe of meaning lives within you.


Good luck
:wink:
Gotta put a little fun into your life.

======================
Oct. 28th
Lausten, regarding the following quotes
Mind you those are Jung quotes. And I was a young man when his words first enamored me. But, there was more to, it was Jung life and how he behaved, and the way he spoke, that compared to the druggy sex obsessed genius, it was no contest for me. He offered interesting thoughts that seemed worth rolling around and wrestling with. So, okay like most of what we were lead to believe turned out to be nonsense. Still Jung made a good example, like I pointed out at the beginning he also had clay feet like the rest of us. Still there’s something at the core of archetypes, no matter how much weirdness has been written about it and injected into it, at least from my junior college level understand and experiencing a good deal of variety along the way.

Although that said, I also seem to have been able to pull a little more magic out of my day to day journey than others, and that’s worth something, and Jung was among many who helped point me in the correct direction. That’s why I brought him up. An alternative reading suggestion for itd. No offense intended.

I never thought of it that way. Or maybe I did but not in those words. Projection is your power, not a draining of it

That’s not really how it works though. Life is just a random sequence of events, it’s not a living reflection of your psyche. There is no message or Self, it’s just some fiction we make up, at least per psychoanalysis (though who knows). Everything in my life wasn’t some secret revelation of some inner reflection of my “soul” or “psyche”, rather it was just “Shit that happens”. I’m kinda hollow inside so there’s nothing to reflect, I just copy what other folks do.

I”ve known that much, I just don’t know what to make of what I read. The stuff about sex being objectifying kinda messed me up along with what psychoanalysis says.

Along with what Zizek says, which I don’t really get like saying the Other of the Real does not exist or something: Panel at 2012 Žižek Studies Conference: “The Perverted Subject Does (not) Exist: Subjectivity and Žižek’s Ethics” – Daniel Tutt

I don’t think it being from reddit makes it crap but looking at it again I can see it doesn’t add up. You’d still have desires with no one around, just that they would be different. Though they say there is some “drive” that is different from desire but TBH they seem the same and the distinction sounds like splitting hairs.

I was clarifying that it was not a quote of your words. I’m glad you short of agree it’s crap.

If that was true, there would be very little progress. For someone who has little thought of the future, who doesn’t set goals, I could see how life might appear random, but people like that also struggle to meet their basic needs.

Well I say that but deep down I can’t help wonder if it’s true. I’m not sure what logic to believe, like dismissing it would just be making myself feel better.

I mean it does come down to luck, at least in my life, and I’ve largely been fortunate. My own attempts to change my life haven’t worked out. I think we like to believe it’s not random to avoid the fear of losing control.

You’re repeating the same old stuff again.

Adding on the next morning: You take something that’s true, like life is unpredictable and things can happen that change your projection. Fine. But you leave out any agency. You leave out that humans can look into the future, remember what has been done in the past, and take action in the moment.

You can live like a leaf in the wind, or as someone with ethics

But again the notion of what is good and bad is socially defined, there is no objective metric for it, no real measure of ethics to be had, it’s just what people think is right. That’s what I mean when I referred to psychoanalysis and what I read and what it said.

like here: What IS Sex?

Where she questions why sex has the hold that it does on our lives and why we make it such a big deal. Even in the links I posted it talks about how we cannot “let sex be” but rather have to always do something with it and how much of our lives revolve around it and society as well. Why is that?

Even a reviewer here mentioned how Freud viewed sexuality:

“Freud argued that there was something fundamentally unsatisfying at the very core of sexuality. What Is Sex? is surely one of the most satisfying accounts we’ve ever had of this ‘something.’”

In fact if you read the links I gave you’d see how they argue against the notion of a fulfilling life, because fulfillment is just a fantasy in our heads. There is some fundamental “Lack” inside of us that can never be truly filled.

If you can’t figure out that sitting next to a cool stream on a warm day is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, I don’t know what to tell you.

I agree with Inthedarkness.

For Gengis Khan to kill or enslave all the population of a town who had resisted him was good.

For an ancient Roman or for a 17th century gentleman slavery was morally acceptable.

And Lausten, the exemple you give is not adequate. If you speak about someone who pokes a stick in his one’s eye, it is not a matter of morale, but of psychology.

The ten commandments are the basic rules a primitive society needs to function.

Slavery is the easy example of how something bad can be acceptable to a culture. Acceptable to a culture doesn’t make it good. A person who is enslaved knows this. Good can be defined by a culture but that doesn’t make it right. Socially, I can be wrong about what is good, but me being wrong doesn’t change something bad into good.

Bad for you, bad for me ….

In fact, when it was introduced, it was a progress. Before slavery was instituted, vanquished ennemies were killed.

Death penalty is bad for me, good and right for many people. ….

Slavery is better than murder. Hmmm. Not much of an argument. It’s a utilitarian point, and I didn’t argue for utilitarianism. I don’t think a long philosophical discussion of what “good” means would be fruitful in this thread. My point is, eliminating aspects of a good life, like health and happiness, leads to over generalized conclusions, like saying good is only socially defined. Define “social” for starters.

What good is morality if it doesn’t have any “utilitarianism” to it?

I’ll leave it up to you to research that. Sorry, it will involve some philosophers.

{ I think I’m going to pull this comment - doesn’t really belong here - and I think I’m going to build an essay around it. }

Sorry about all that, tangents and all that.

And it wasn’t even your last comment, which makes total sense to me.

My comment was to something earlier.

It all feels like unfinished business to me, and thoughts trigger more thoughts, no personal offense intended in any of the above, still until someone provides better answers, I need to keep doing work at writing and defining my challenge.