And I did. I thought about it. When I realized I had nothing outside my own thoughts and feelings, I began to seriously question. I started demanding more frommy religious community, and demanding more of other theists outside my religion, and when I found they had no more than I did I decided it wasn’t enough and I left it. Not every theist is closed minded, and it isn’t impossible. He didn’t have to write a formal argument, be aggressive, make his case orndefend his position. All he did was be friendly and ask me to think. After a break I went back to the forum and asked him why he was an atheist, and what he did believe about other things, and I was convinced. So yeah, I think its possible. Maybe I am still just an exception, but I don’t see a reason I have to be. I’m not any more special than anyone else.And once again, I disagree. You are special, special because you thought it through using logic as a guide and not a supplication to a diety in order to make your decision. What you found is that "nothing fails like prayer". Notice your use of the term "outside" . You dared to step out of the bubble and actually question the existence of the supernatural which led to the logical conclusion, there are no gods. Perhaps I should qualify my thoughts on theists here. I do agree that not all theists are completely closed minded; there are progressives out there toying with agnosticism which if they allowed themselves further study and reflection would declare themselves to be atheists. That said, you in all probability won't find many who are committed Protestant fundamentalists. Fundies frame their view of the World through the filter of a literal interpretation of a "holy book" and enough said, period. You will neither alter nor completely change their mode of thought no matter how much logic you throw at them, even if you spoon feed it. There's must be an internal conversion and that would bring not only their World view but their intimate relationships to a rapid close. It would be an ultimate sacrifice leaving them a diminished place in the only society they've ever known. In the extreme it could even lead to shunning by family and close friends. For most, the price would be too high. There's a lot to be said for public pressure, especially in a fundamentalist community. Cap't Jack
I never had belief. I also have never tried to convert the religious but I have defended atheism to believers who tried to convert me. You know, once you go to the dark side it hard to see the light. lol I am somewhat interested in keeping religion reigned in but to be honest not too much energy is spent on that either. A little protesting, some letter writing but that's about it.I’m tired of the fight, the arguments, there is no converting believers so I quit going there and doing that. They either come to it on their own or don’t. What’s next…... nothing. So tell me something I don’t know.MzLee, first of all did you become an atheist to convert believers or did you somehow just realize that there was no supernatural entity controlling your life? If you've hit the proverbially brick wall by attempting to convert the theists near you then I can understand your boredom. It ain't gonna happen. I use the phrase "you can't reason someone out of something they haven't been reasoned into in the first place". Somehow you finally realized that there is no Santa Claus, Easter bunny or kindly MAN in the sky watching your every movement and dispensing love and punishment. It's a human construct, so there. Now what? Unless you want to dive in and become an activist anti-theist campaigning against those who want to interject their belief system into your life then move on. I'm certain that you're defined by much more than the fact that you're an atheist. You can take comfort in the satisfaction that you figured it out. And BTW if you're bored then find a hobby you like or might like. Travel, see the World, we only have one life ya know. No final reward, well you know that, you're an atheist. Cap't Jack
I want to say thank you all so much for your comments.
They are very enjoyable and thoughtful. I had no idea this thread would generate such interest but I have grown from reading your ideas.
I never had belief. I also have never tried to convert the religious but I have defended atheism to believers who tried to convert me. You know, once you go to the dark side it hard to see the light. lolI can empathize but definitely not sympathize with you. I was raised in a fundamentalist family; my Father is more moderate but not my Mother and her side of the family. They are all Bible believers spawned in the Southern Nazarine Church. College set me on the path to non belief even though I've lived among the true believers my whole adult life. I can even speak fluent fundie. Today they mostly leave me alone and we stay off the topic altogether although in my last go round my Mother condemned me to hell for denouncing the virgin birth. So, no I'll never return to the matrix. Cap't Jack
I can even speak fluent fundie.The sentence above made me laugh out loud. :lol: Take care, Derek
The sentence above made me laugh out loud.Oh, I forgot to add that I can talk in tongues too! Glossalalia. :lol: gibberish gibberish, blah blah blah. Cap't Jack
Of course I am bored with Atheism. It represents nothing but an absence. Thinking about a void is boring also, unless as a kind of meditation.
Alice would be bored in Never, Never land when she can visit Wonderland every time a child opens her book.
I don’t think about atheism much. Except when I’m on this Forum. Then it’s pretty prevalent-by default.
I used to try and argue with theists and maybe convince a few. Now…not so much. I just don’t care.
In fact, recently I lied to theists and claimed I was a theist too. I forget why, but it was to avoid awkwardness
in some social setting. They put me on the spot about faith, and it wasn’t the time or place to tell them I was an atheist and I thought their
ideas were ridiculous. It was just more expedient to go along with them.
Now some of you might say “Oooh. How could you? You’re betraying your atheist code.” Or some such nonsense.
“You didn’t have the cojones to just tell them and stand up for Intl. Atheists of The World!”
Or you just might say, “How could you lie in the first place? About anything?”
That kind of lie had absolutely no value to me. Why should I care about lying to people who are deceiving themselves or are deceived anyways.
Especially if my lie is only to go along with their deception in the first place?
I relished it actually. It was the first time I had done that in 30 years or so. I used to have to do it for my grandma
when I was in my teens. She was fragile and sensitive and an Italian. It would have broke her heart, and I wasn’t into doing that.
She had a bad heart to begin with. Understand that by the time I was Confirmed in the RC church- I was an atheist.
But I had to get Confirmed. I protested it to my parents and had told them I was an atheist many times. It didn’t matter.
Tradition was tradition. I still lived under their roof, you gotta follow the rules. It was no big deal. One mass, a walk up the aisle I think, maybe a few money envelopes from relatives. A little party.
Anyways…yes. I relished deceiving these religious folks. Why should I care. I know I am an atheist.
I can’t remember the setting. Maybe grace at some supper…
But anyways…F**k 'em!! Who cares? It kind of made me feel like I was the devil. I was looking them straight in the eye and saying
oh yeah, I’m a christian. Inside I was just laughing. They had some faith based bond with me, some identity that I could barely remember from age 8 or so.
Who cares how theists perceive me? Conversely, I would love it if a christian or jew or muslim or hindu did the same to me.
I would get a real kick out of that. If they pretended to be atheist and fooled me.
I wouldn’t talk about atheism with loved ones, whom I thought that it would cause distress. But I enjoy talking about it with acquaintances who I deem emotionally and intellectually able to deal with it. The problem is that I am rarely around such persons who are, also, willing to engage on the topic. (I assume they find it threatening or too conflicting. But then a lot of people just don’t want to think about anything to do with religion at all.)
I doubt you were converted. Most likely, you converted yourself, even if you don't realize it. I don't think anyone can be truly converted unless he or she has already taken the first step, which leads to being open to a different way of thinking. Conversion has to come from inside the person. Otherwise it will be false and will fail. Churches are full of people who had been "converted" to atheism and they are probably telling the world and themselves that they used to be an atheist, they were lost, and then they saw the light. LoisAnd to everyone here who says “Bah humbug, theists can’t be converted!", to put it bluntly, you are wrong. I was a theist, who was arguing with atheists, and they ultimately convinced me there was a flaw in my logic and that I needed to reexamine my position. Am I an exception? Maybe. Could it be that your approach of “You’re indoctrinated fools who believe in idiotic fairy tails like little kids and you should stop it right now" is counterproductive? That’s also highly likely.No, you're wrong and you are an exception. Taking the "in your face" approach to any argument is counterproductive and simply causes the theist to dig in his heels and spout the same attack right back at you. Remember that statistically we are still in the minority even in this country and espousing Dawkins to your theist neighbor is fruitless. They have been indoctrinated for years beginning with childhood and an open discussion concerning religious fallacies, misinterpretations of Biblical or Koranic scripture will rarely happen. You first have to break down the wall of faith and that has to come from within. You can point out discrepancies and plant the seed of doubt but firm believers will easily attribute it to some supernatural entity, i.e. Satan. I have no idea how you were finally convinced but you had to have an open mind to even begin to listening to an atheist argument. Changing someone's World view is next to impossible with a firmly established mindset and a support group such as a tight knit religious family and membership in a religious institution. Becoming an atheist separates you from these groups and as herd animals, we need that support and like mindedness. In your case as you stated "there was a flaw in your logic" but the majority don't see any flaws in a flawless god. Hence the term "blind faith". Cap't Jack
Another thing, people are not “converted” to atheism. They free themselves from irrational belief. Atheism is what is left and it’s a beautiful thing if it’s pure and not forced or faked. People convert from one faith to another, not from faith to atheism.
Lois
And to go back to an antique thread on the statement, “There are no atheists in foxholes”. Under great stress we revert to our earliest thinking. An example is people dying in severe pain who call out for their mother. Those who were inculcated with the god idea at a very early age then logically develop into atheists, when recognizing that immediate death is likely might easily slip back to their four year old thinking and pray. However, if one hasn’t been brainwashed as a small child, prayer would probably be the furthest thing from his/her mind.
Occam
Me too! (But only after to much celebrating in worship of Bacchus. :cheese: ) Take care, DerekThe sentence above made me laugh out loud.Oh, I forgot to add that I can talk in tongues too! Glossalalia. :lol: gibberish gibberish, blah blah blah.