How long will it take for someone to come up with a conspiracy theory about the missing plane that involves the US government?
Anyone want to lay odds?
Lois
How long will it take for someone to come up with a conspiracy theory about the missing plane that involves the US government? Anyone want to lay odds? LoisDepends who or what was on board at the time. From the reporting it seems to me something struck the plane violently and wiped out all communication. I find it bizarre that NORAD doesn't know anything. They are supposed to keep track of everything in overlapping areas all over the globe. And remarkably, this headline,
NORAD Training Exercise Draws Attentionhttp://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/03/11/norad-training-exercise-draws-attention.html
You’ve got to be kidding, Lois. I’ll bet that if one goes onto the conspiracy websites or twitter or facebook, you’ll find entries of people who wrote that it was a conspiracy within seconds after the first report. :lol:
Occam
I think we should start calling them ‘conspiracy hypotheses’ (at best). 
Take care,
Derek
How long will it take for someone to come up with a conspiracy theory about the missing plane that involves the US government? Anyone want to lay odds? LoisDepends who or what was on board at the time. From the reporting it seems to me something struck the plane violently and wiped out all communication. I find it bizarre that NORAD doesn't know anything. They are supposed to keep track of everything in overlapping areas all over the globe. And remarkably, this headline,
NORAD Training Exercise Draws Attentionhttp://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/03/11/norad-training-exercise-draws-attention.html North American Aerospace Defense Command is a combined organization of the United States and Canada that provides aerospace warning, air sovereignty, and defense for North America. Why would they be doing anything in Malaysia? You'd have to prove that was the case. You would also have to come up a reason the United States and Canada would bring down a Malaysian passenger plane. Not that I think the conspiracy nuts couldn't come up with some hare-brained idea. Lois
How long will it take for someone to come up with a conspiracy theory about the missing plane that involves the US government? Anyone want to lay odds? LoisDepends who or what was on board at the time. From the reporting it seems to me something struck the plane violently and wiped out all communication. I find it bizarre that NORAD doesn't know anything. They are supposed to keep track of everything in overlapping areas all over the globe. And remarkably, this headline,
NORAD Training Exercise Draws Attentionhttp://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/03/11/norad-training-exercise-draws-attention.html North American Aerospace Defense Command is a combined organization of the United States and Canada that provides aerospace warning, air sovereignty, and defense for North America. Why would they be doing anything in Malaysia? You'd have to prove that was the case. You would also have go come up a reason the United States and Canada would bring down a Malaysian passenger plane. Not that I think the conspiracy nuts couldn't come up with some hare-brained idea. Lois Yes, NORAD is designed to defend North America. However, in order to defend N-A they monitor everything that is in the air including in space. They have logged every piece of space debris floating above us and they track every flying object of significant size in the air. I visited NORAD, its an awesome place.
How long will it take for someone to come up with a conspiracy theory about the missing plane that involves the US government? Anyone want to lay odds? LoisDepends who or what was on board at the time. From the reporting it seems to me something struck the plane violently and wiped out all communication. I find it bizarre that NORAD doesn't know anything. They are supposed to keep track of everything in overlapping areas all over the globe. And remarkably, this headline,
NORAD Training Exercise Draws Attentionhttp://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/03/11/norad-training-exercise-draws-attention.html North American Aerospace Defense Command is a combined organization of the United States and Canada that provides aerospace warning, air sovereignty, and defense for North America. Why would they be doing anything in Malaysia? You'd have to prove that was the case. You would also have go come up a reason the United States and Canada would bring down a Malaysian passenger plane. Not that I think the conspiracy nuts couldn't come up with some hare-brained idea. Lois Yes, NORAD is designed to defend North America. However, in order to defend N-A they monitor everything that is in the air including in space. They have logged every piece of space debris floating above us and they track every flying object of significant size in the air. I visited NORAD, its an awesome place. That doesn't mean they were involved in the loss of this plane, which is what conspiracy nuts would claim. Lois
I think we should start calling them 'conspiracy hypotheses' (at best). :-) Take care, DerekIf you want a better word, conspiracy pipedreams would be a better descriptor. Lois
I think we should start calling them 'conspiracy hypotheses' (at best). :-) Take care, DerekIf you want a better word, conspiracy pipedreams would be a better descriptor. Lois Well, it appears to be a hijacking, piracy is not so uncommon anymore. Lois, I wasn't trying to implicate the US or NORAD. I just wondered if they had noticed anything unusual. And it now appears the plane did change course before it got out of range of military monitored airspace.
Sorry for the temporary diversion, but Lois used the term “hare brained” in an earlier post. I learned it as a child, but never had occasion to use it or even, as I recall, ever seeing it in print. Now I find, as an old fud, that I had always thought if it as “hair brained” which is obviously incorrect. On the positive side it’s nice to know I can learn something new. On the negative side, I wonder how many other “facts” that have been inside my skull forever are wrong.
Thanks, Lois.
Occam
I think we should start calling them 'conspiracy hypotheses' (at best). :-) Take care, DerekIf you want a better word, conspiracy pipedreams would be a better descriptor. Lois Well, it appears to be a hijacking, piracy is not so uncommon anymore. Lois, I wasn't trying to implicate the US or NORAD. I just wondered if they had noticed anything unusual. And it now appears the plane did change course before it got out of range of military monitored airspace.A hijacking would generally be accurately described as a conspiracy, in that such events are usually preplanned and usually involve more than one person. Perhaps, Lois, you should tell the Malaysian authorities and others who have been trying to eliminate this question that the idea is a pipedream. It is notable that as the starter of this thread you have not indulged in any speculation as to what happened to the 777 yourself, which is all we have at the moment; you are as clueless as the rest of us but apparently more willing to be dismissive. Occam: the etymology of "hare brained"/"mad as a March hare" was taken by Lewis Carroll to create the character of the March Hare in his children's book Lois's Adventures in Wonderland, a cautionary tale in which the eponymous character refuses to wonder about anything until she falls down a rabbit hole.
Yes, NORAD is designed to defend North America. However, in order to defend N-A they monitor everything that is in the air including in space. They have logged every piece of space debris floating above us and they track every flying object of significant size in the air. I visited NORAD, its an awesome place.Write this isn't true. NORAD does not have the ability to track aircraft over the entire globe. Even if they had access to every radar facility on the planet (and they don't) they couldn't do this since there are large swaths of the planet that are not covered by radar especially over the ocean. Radar is by and large a land based resource that is limited by the curvature of the earth. Some radar is mounted on planes or ships and this can extend radar into areas where there are no ground based facilities but this is used only in limited circumstances such as war and protection of ships at sea. Radar of the type required to track planes is not available from satellites. While NORAD can track objects in space, tracking space objects is not exactly the same as tracking planes in flight. They use different assets with different limitations. Space objects are in high orbits so that ground based radar is not as affected by the earths curvature and can therefor track objects over a greater distance ( although there are still distance limits). In addition, objects traveling in space do not generally change their trajectory very often except when they are being put into a new orbit or on the rare occasion when there is a collision. For this reason they do not need to be able to track them continuously to know where they are. If they have the orbit of the object well defined they will know pretty accurately where the object is at any time even if they can't confirm the location with direct radar or visual confirmation during every point in its orbit.
It is notable that as the starter of this thread you have not indulged in any speculation as to what happened to the 777 yourself, which is all we have at the moment; you are as clueless as the rest of us but apparently more willing to be dismissive.Jomper it is not unreasonable to dismiss or diminish certain possibilities before we have the final answer. I think its perfectly reasonable to ignore suggestions that it was aliens or black holes for example if someone were to suggest such a thing because there is no evidence to support such a hypothesis and there are other more probable explanations. In any investigation you will have a long list of possible explanations which you can then list in order of most likely to least likely and on down to totally crazy. You can call it dismissive I suppose but there will always be some hypotheses that are so far down the list that they do not deserve the time or resources to be worth considering.
I think we should start calling them 'conspiracy hypotheses' (at best). :-) Take care, DerekIf you want a better word, conspiracy pipedreams would be a better descriptor. Lois Well, it appears to be a hijacking, piracy is not so uncommon anymore. Lois, I wasn't trying to implicate the US or NORAD. I just wondered if they had noticed anything unusual. And it now appears the plane did change course before it got out of range of military monitored airspace. No, I didn't think YOU were implicating NORAD, but there are plenty of people who would. But if NORAD is so on the ball, tracking every bit of debris, every signal, isn't it odd that they haven't found anything yet? I suspect the plane slipped into the water and sank, and that there was no "crash." If it managed to land somewhere, I think we'd know about it by now. I'm not sure we will ever know what happened. But it does look as if it was either a hijacking or pilot involvement. A horrible thing for the passengers' and crew members' loved ones. Lois
Sorry for the temporary diversion, but Lois used the term "hare brained" in an earlier post. I learned it as a child, but never had occasion to use it or even, as I recall, ever seeing it in print. Now I find, as an old fud, that I had always thought if it as "hair brained" which is obviously incorrect. On the positive side it's nice to know I can learn something new. On the negative side, I wonder how many other "facts" that have been inside my skull forever are wrong. Thanks, Lois. OccamIt happens to all of us, Occam. In fact, most of what any of us "know" is probably wrong on some level. "The first use of harebrained dates to 1548. The spelling hairbrained also has a long history, going back to the 1500s when hair was a variant spelling of hare. The hair variant was preserved in Scotland into the 18th century, and as a result it is impossible to tell exactly when people began writing hairbrained in the belief that the word means "having a hair-sized brain" rather than "with no more sense than a hare." While hairbrained continues to be used and confused, it should be avoided in favor of harebrained which has been established as the correct spelling. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language. harebrained (ˈhɛəˌbreɪnd) or hairbrained adj 1. rash, foolish, or badly thought out: harebrained schemes. Collins English Dictionary hare•brained or hair•brained (ˈhɛərˌbreɪnd) adj. giddy; reckless. Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary
I think we should start calling them 'conspiracy hypotheses' (at best). :-) Take care, DerekIf you want a better word, conspiracy pipedreams would be a better descriptor. Lois Well, it appears to be a hijacking, piracy is not so uncommon anymore. Lois, I wasn't trying to implicate the US or NORAD. I just wondered if they had noticed anything unusual. And it now appears the plane did change course before it got out of range of military monitored airspace.A hijacking would generally be accurately described as a conspiracy, in that such events are usually preplanned and usually involve more than one person. Perhaps, Lois, you should tell the Malaysian authorities and others who have been trying to eliminate this question that the idea is a pipedream. It is notable that as the starter of this thread you have not indulged in any speculation as to what happened to the 777 yourself, which is all we have at the moment; you are as clueless as the rest of us but apparently more willing to be dismissive. Occam: the etymology of "hare brained"/"mad as a March hare" was taken by Lewis Carroll to create the character of the March Hare in his children's book Lois's Adventures in Wonderland, a cautionary tale in which the eponymous character refuses to wonder about anything until she falls down a rabbit hole. Yes, of course it could be a conspiracy by some group, , but I was referring to a conspiracy involving shenanigans by the US government, which someone is bound to come up with sooner or later. The next thing you know someone will be coming up with reams of measurements and arcane statistics about the plane "proving" that it was the fault of the US government--just as they did and still do regarding the WTC.
As macgyver rightly says some ideas (alien abduction, disintegration ray) can be dismissed immediately. Nevertheless radical doubt is what makes Cartesian philosophy so powerful. When you say, Lois, “I suspect the plane slipped into the water and sank” you are not inquiring as to how and why this may have occurred – and that is of course what we want to know. That is inquiry.
In the case of WTC (7) however the question is not how and why the building collapsed in the way it did – but rather, how and why people like you can believe such questions have been properly answered.
As macgyver rightly says some ideas (alien abduction, disintegration ray) can be dismissed immediately. Nevertheless radical doubt is what makes Cartesian philosophy so powerful. When you say, Lois, "I suspect the plane slipped into the water and sank" you are not inquiring as to how and why this may have occurred -- and that is of course what we want to know. That is inquiry. In the case of WTC (7) however the question is not how and why the building collapsed in the way it did -- but rather, how and why people like you can believe such questions have been properly answered.Or why people like you can believe they have not been. Lois
As macgyver rightly says some ideas (alien abduction, disintegration ray) can be dismissed immediately. Nevertheless radical doubt is what makes Cartesian philosophy so powerful. When you say, Lois, "I suspect the plane slipped into the water and sank" you are not inquiring as to how and why this may have occurred -- and that is of course what we want to know. That is inquiry. In the case of WTC (7) however the question is not how and why the building collapsed in the way it did -- but rather, how and why people like you can believe such questions have been properly answered.Or why people like you can believe they have bot been. LoisI believe the question if how and why WTC7 collapsed in the way it collapsed has not been properly answered because I have examined the answers offered and the method used to arrive at them. This was the broad equivalent of calling off the search for MH370, waiting for a few years and then concluding the plane spontaneously fell to pieces in midair purely by manipulating a secret computer program. If you have properly examined the answers offered to the question of how and why WTC7 collapsed in the way it collapsed and consider any of that reasoning to have scientific credibility in terms of its approach to evidence and the methodology used then I suggest you post that material in the relevant thread on this forum. Otherwise my point is made: the question of why you have accepted such obvious pseudoscience is a psychological one for you, not "conspiracism" from the likes of me.
There’s already a monstrously long thread on the WTC conspiracy that I was previously rejoicing as an ex-thread, ceased to be, gone to meet its maker, etc. Sadly I might have been premature in that celebration. Please let’s not hijack a different thread for this topic.
Take care,
Derek