It can be made to have chemical experiences. Lots of control mechanisms do already.
The engine in your car controls gas/air mixture. It may not be an emotional experience but it is a chemical experience.
We need to examine these things not “as compared to humans”, but as “compared to functionality”.
Insects have no emotions or physical sensations. Their brains are more like an AI than as human.
There is no intrinsic reason that insects shouldn’t experience emotions . … These are your body’s emotional responses. And they can be, but are not necessarily, coupled with the subjective feelings of sadness or fear, respectively.Sep 30, 2016
There is no intrinsic reason that insects shouldn’t experience emotions. Feelings, on the other hand, are a separate issue. Even though we use the two terms interchangeably in common parlance, scientists use them differently.
“Emotions are collections of actions, and numerous species have emoted,” says neuroscientist and philosopher Antonio Damasio of the University of Southern California, “though we can not be certain that they felt their emotings.”
In other words, emotions are the body’s adaptive response to external events or stimuli. Feelings are the subjective experience of them.
Although given my bent, when I read this jazz about all the effort put into creating life and making AI more human with every technical trick in the book.
And all the while we are too f’n stupid to notice that our house is on fire, actually guess that’s not true, we all know our house is on fire, but it’s not a priority. It’s sooo easy to rationalize that reality into utter triviality.
The important stuff is more bling and all these nifty potentials in our various playrooms, who care’s about the house, we are in our world, nothing else out there matters much, so lets get back to tinkering.
If I had a friend with this kind of intelligence, I’d be grateful for his friendship.
Watch this exchange and reflect on the content of the conversation.
I believe that one of the real strengths of GPT3 is its ability for pattern recognition that imitates human vision and data processing. This does not only include text symbols, but also geometric patterns from which all reality is fashioned and is symbolized in science.
These are called the “tokens” that the gpt3 are taught at fundamental levels. When the fundamentals are known by the AI any further combinatory pattern complexity become relatively easier to recognize and mentally reconstruct for comparison, just like humans do when reading picture books. This allows the AI to draw and paint originals art in the style of great painters, like van Gogh.
Pattern Recognition and Inductive Thinking is a special ability of the human brain to not only find patterns but figure out in a logical way what those patterns suggest about what will happen next.
In a broad sense, pattern recognition and inductive thinking form the basis for all scientific inquiry.
These two complex cognitive processes draw on six of the other core cognitive processes.
Here we see in action sustained attention, response inhibition, speed of information processing, cognitive flexibility, working memory and category formation in the service of creative problem solving. ACTIVATE™ brain training software creates the opportunity for children to exercise the brain systems that both perform and integrate these core cognitive capacities.
more…
Come explore how Pattern Recognition & Inductive Thinking is a special ability to not only find patterns, but figure out in a logical way what will happen next.
Fascinating, now there’s no more excuse for humans not to continue getting dumber and dumber,
our machines will do all our thinking for us.
Just imagine what a golden future we are creating for ourselves.
Ask yourself, listening to this AI, did you learn anything and if so, did that make you dumber?
Maybe AI will assist in teaching and doing our research on certain subjects that now may take hours, but with AI assistance may take minutes if not seconds.
Using a tool does not necessarily make you dumber. it makes you better at using tools…
My acid test is looking at what people in our society are doing.
We haven’t even mastered our old form of intelligence, but bigger and better is always bigger and better, they say.
How is this going to help us face to the delusion thinking that’s swamping society?
How is it going to help people realize that real world facts matter?
How is it going to help people figure out how we fit into the story Earth’s evolution and our interactions with other creatures?
How is it going to slow down our self-destruction?
I’m a humanist not a human calculating machine - life matters more than numbers to me, and real life is exactly what all this seems to leave behind, as we climb deeper and deeper into our own egoistical self-serving minds.
IMO. thinking is calculating and calculators allow us to explore the vast numbers associated with the grand scale of the universe and the minuscule scale of the atomic worlds.
You heard the AI say that it assists humans with an inquiry. How can that be detrimental to gaining knowledge? Why do you want to do the tedious work of endlessly searching for knowledge when an AI can provide that knowledge almost instantaneously from the internet.
Look at us here, now. Should we use pen and ink to write beautiful letters to have this conversation and wait weeks for a response or have we conquered distance in communicating with each other? Don’t forget, this is all AI-assisted. We just call it computing. I call it computer-assisted thinking.
I’m a carpenter and cook (among other skilled labor trades) so my understanding of tools is utilitarian.
I have a more metaphorical perspective and it has to do with cascading consequences and entrapment.
Technology as an American God (though he’s international, global)
Mix in a little
Here we are 2022, people have become Consumer Units, and social media dictates thinking and buying habit, thanks to the ever more astounding computing abilities and AI systems.
Ready to be put to the service of the highest bidders who are trying to figure out how to manipulate yet more power and treasure into their back pockets - And we the people, like a bunch of sheep to the slaughter, willfully accepting the most preposterous lies and physical impossibilities as though the bullshit was honest to god fact, rather than fevered malicious mind games and brain washing - that can be dismantle with the most rudimentary critical thinking skills.
In the book American God’s there’s a written sex scene, as wrenching as anything I’m capable of imagining, “she” doesn’t simply take in all “he” has to offer with his splendid hardness, nah, she never stops taking him into her, . . .
That’s the way I feel about all this super dumper computing power, it’s just more throttle added to our race towards self destruction. Technically amazing, real world physical reality, utterly self-destructive.
I’m into the boring stuff that we can actually feel within this physical reality, silly stuff that most love taking for granted, water for instance,
There are balances required for anything to sustain itself for any length of time.
When all we can see is the genius of our minds and how that can manipulate the physical world - we lose!
To me you worship the genius of our mind way too much and spend way too little time thinking about our simply day to days that tie it all together.
About how us spending more time dealing with ourselves and those around us and how our evolutionary story can constructively inform every facet of us and how we interact with the world around us. Especially as to those fundamental philosophical/religious/spiritual questions about the who, what, when, how, why of our lives. {I don’t see how math can satisfy any of that human longing (need), irrational though it may be.}
Why it matters, for instance: I don’t understand why so many humans are still so f’n insecure about their religions, there selves, and the horror of their own death, the point of it, etc - it’s like they never got past the Mammalian Intellect and into a truly Human Insightful reflection of our situation - where we can deeply contemplate ourselves against the backdrop of a physically realistic origin story, evolution and the scientific method.
As opposed to our make-believe shadow-plays, which too many choose to elevate into a Godly belief/prejudice to die for.
I thought that is what I am doing. Exactly where do you think I am “missing the point”?
My beliefs are not based on mythology. My beliefs are based on the scientific method, but if that particular method is not generally practised by the mainstream scientific establishment, it is called a religious belief, even if it is accompanied by actual demonstrable proofs provided by the Scientific community, not the Religious community which has a totally different agenda.
My agenda is for my own understanding of the universe, not to seek approval from others, but a shared exploration. I don’t need to study what is already known, “I go where no man has gone before”.
Well, there is actually a thriving scientific community studying the origins of consciousness and by extension the evolution of AI consciousness.
I am just an interested bystander asking questions.
By keeping it within that mental sphere and ignoring this physical sphere where our lives unfold?
Heck you can’t even gracefully acknowledge that there’s a huge difference between our entire bodies being 90% "foreign material germs, viruses, etc. Rather than recognizing that 90% foreign cells reside in very specific areas of the body.
While I think those down to Earth facts are critical to our understanding, you’ve repeatedly just brushed it off, repeat the erroneous meme, and continue the misunderstanding. Apparently without the least bit cognitive dissonance.
Then you disingenuous keep implying I’m adding some magical thinking, when I’m every bit as confined to the scientific process and pursuit of sober understanding as you are. (sometime I think more so, considering how you elevate the mathematical abstract to be the All, and I’d rather keep it to physical facts we can see.)
Difference is that I apparently have a deeper first hand understanding of, and interest in, our dynamic mental landscapes and the games we play with ourselves and others.
I also made the key point not that long ago, that is my quest is a philosophical one that has to do with our relationship(attitude) towards what we have learned (what we know).
While it seems to me you’re after the Answer to Everything, which I believe is a fool’s errand. I believe this way because of that vast host of humans satisfied with self-serving fantasies of every variety and who steadfast don’t want to be interested our planet or the processes that create our life sustaining biosphere.
To me, it seems your single minded passion for the mathematical explanation to everything, blinds us to the actual biological that’s unfolding in front of us and that we are destroying fast as possible. We’ve not only destroyed our relationship with Earth’s biosphere, we’re doing the same to our relationship with other humans in families and communities, and to our own minds as witnessed by so many are reverting to pure tribalism and avoidance.
[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:33, topic:8126”]
By keeping it within that mental sphere and ignoring this physical sphere where our lives unfold?
First, this thread is about AI, a form of mental intelligence. And this includes “awareness” and “responsive” behaviors to sensory input"
I am trying to focus o the complexity of the human biome in relation to its environment.
This is why I try to objectively analyze the fundamental factors that must be considered from an objective scientific perspective and not exclusively from a
subjective emotional perspective.
Heck you can’t even gracefully acknowledge that there’s a huge difference between our entire bodies being 90% "foreign material germs, viruses, etc. Rather than recognizing that 90% of foreign cells reside in very specific areas of the body.
The grace lies in the acknowledgement of our dependency on beneficial bacteria. It teaches a little humility in view that our very lives are supported by invisible living organisms. Organisms that communicate with themselves and the human host.
Human microbiota: The microorganisms that make us their home
What makes a human body? According to researchers, human cells tell but half the story. The other half involves the myriad of microorganisms that make up the microbiota — “alien” environments all over our bodies that, as long as there is a healthy balance, help us thrive.
For more research-backed information about the microbiome and how it affects your health, please visit our dedicated hub.
The human body contains trillions of specialized cells — tiny building blocks that come together to support the development and functioning of the body.
But human cells are not the only “materials” that make up our bodies. In fact, we live in symbiosis with trillions of microorganisms, too.
Researchers have long debated the true ratio of human cells to microorganisms in the average body. Estimates have fluctuated, but the most recent study to consider the matter — which appeared in PLOS Biology in 2016 — suggests that we likely have about as many microorganisms in and on our bodies as we do human cells.
In addition to bacteria and viruses, these microorganisms include archaea.), primitive organisms with no nucleus, and eukaryotic microorganisms, or eukarya, a type with a nucleus that protects its chromosomes. In the latter group are fungi and protists, tiny organisms at the “border” between a plant and a fungus.
All of these together make up various microbiota: communities of microorganisms present at different sites on or in the human body.
The various microbiota make up the human microbiome: the totality of microorganism communities spread around the human body.
Collections of microorganisms in different areas play a crucial role in helping maintain our health — though to do so, the numbers of various types of bacteria, fungi, and other microorganisms have to remain in perfect balance.
When that balance is tipped and, for instance, one bacterial species overpopulates, this can lead to infections and other health problems.
This feature describes the various organisms that make their homes in the gut, mouth, vagina and uterus, penis, skin, eyes, and lungs.*
While I think those down to Earth facts are critical to our understanding, you’ve repeatedly just brushed it off, repeat the erroneous meme, and continue the misunderstanding. Apparently without the least bit of cognitive dissonance.
I don’t have a clue what you are talking about. What meme?
That’s my point. I don’t talk about memes, I try to talk about science in my inadequate layman’s vocabulary.
Then you disingenuous keep implying I’m adding some magical thinking when I’m every bit as confined to the scientific process and pursuit of sober understanding as you are. (sometimes I think more so, considering how you elevate the mathematical abstract to be the All, and I’d rather keep it to physical facts we can see.)
I’m not trying to imply that you are talking woo. I have already indicated that in principle I agree with you from your perspective. But unless you can cite some factual examples we are talking about an undefined meme of “mindscape”, that could mean a thousand different "mental states. Intuitively I can “grok” what you are saying but as I showed with the new GPT3 AI, they can paint a mindscape in the technique of “van Gogh”, But I assume that you are talking about a deeper level of “understanding” your personal role in this "earthly environment
Difference is that I apparently have a deeper first-hand understanding of, and interest in, our dynamic mental landscapes and the games we play with ourselves and others.
There you go! I believe we are on a general equal intellectual footing, each possessing greater knowledge in disparate areas of scientific inquiry. Perhaps we can each teach the other in some ways?
I also made the key point not that long ago, that is my quest is a philosophical one that has to do with our relationship(attitude) towards what we have learned (what we know).
Yes, and I agree that we approach these mindscapes from different perspectives. As to which perspective is more valid than another is a matter of debate.
While it seems to me you’re after the Answer to Everything, which I believe is a fool’s errand. I believe this way because of that vast host of humans satisfied with self-serving fantasies of every variety and who steadfastly don’t want to be interested in our planet or the processes that create our life-sustaining biosphere.
Yes, I am like Robert Hazen, I like to study big questions, such as Abiogenesis and Consciousness. Mainstream science is available with a keyboard click. I want to go where no one has gone before, like the role of microtubules in the consciousness of all Eukaryotic organisms and how that relates to “self-aware consciousness”. This thread about AI is a attemp to model artificial intelligence and potential emergent self-aware consciousness.
To me, it seems your single-minded passion for the mathematical explanation of everything, blinds us to the actual biological that’s unfolding in front of us and that we are destroying fast as possible. We’ve not only destroyed our relationship with Earth’s biosphere, but we’re also doing the same to our relationship with other humans in families and communities, and to our own minds as witnessed by so many are reverting to pure tribalism and avoidance.
Oh but I believe that knowing the mathematics of how life unfolds adds to the appreciation of the natural artistry and how “natural selection” is a mathematical function. Understanding of mathematics takes away a lot of the mystery and allows for greater relational identification. You must consider that I was a bookkeeper for a long time and learned to appreciate the extraordinary elegance of mathematics.
I am not alone in this perspective!
Roger Antonsen gives a little taste of the human symbolic representation of universal values and functions.
Okay, there is that. We do have a way overlapping (or is it interweaving) topics.
my apologies.
Isn’t that my point? The non human biome inhabits specific environments - that’s crucial to understand their role in our physiology.
It’s not some admixture to our entire organism, which is what a sentence like: “Your body is 90% foreign micro-organisms” says. The thought that 90% of (okay 50%) our organs could be non-human biological organism is intellectually (and I dare say spiritually) totally mind-boggling with revolutionary implications.
But, once we understand where those foreign microbes actually reside, now that suddenly makes much more sense, to the point of being self-evident (to people with a basic working understanding of human physiology and biology) once we stop to think about it.
Another one of those astounding discoveries, that once they are digested, become, well… , of course, how else could it be?
“The grace lies in…” I think not.
Especially when it’s only a superficial soundbite that misleads, no grace in that.
It’s the postcard superficiality I bitch about. Lip service doesn’t take the place of understanding.
Human microbiota: The microorganisms that make us their home
That’s an utterly hideously misleading headline! Editor deserves an ‘F’ in communication! What part of US is he writing about?
Look at those papers and articles. The myriad of microorganisms that make up the “alien” microbiota — don’t exist in my muscle tissue, nor in most of my organs or bones - but that’s not sexy or simple enough??? Or what?
It’s a perfect example of the sloppy disregard for physical reality I keep crying about,
And I’m thinking about the more realistic wholistic story of the specific environments where the biome blossoms for specific utilities, then I think of my body and it’s barriers that keep those microbes isolated where they are helpful, and bar them where they’d trigger rather than diseased, and how all that is orchestrated. Folds within folds of complexity, but learning about it requires more homework than most want to spend. And a willingness to acknowledge the unknown, keeping it real as they say in the movies. That (lots of homework) is big problem, the party has been much too much fun and distracting to care about that jazz.
I am trying to focus on our personal relationship with the information we possess. The me, myself, & I; plus those little gray cells; and the body that keep them alive; and the environment we exist within.
[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:35, topic:8126”]
Okay, there is that. We do have a way overlapping (or is it interweaving) topics.
my apologies.
Not necessary. I really like to look at things from different perspectives. That’s why I believe your perspective adds to my understanding . I really enjoy our conversations and as long as the mods allow, I like the introduction of tangently related issues.
IMO it only broadens the scope of the conversation, as it should.
David Bohm’s complaint was that science has become so specialized that it has lost all relational meaning and has become completely fractured into a thousand little niches .
He made a special notation of that in his book “Wholeness and the Implicate Order”
In my research of microtubules I have found 5 different names for the same object, depending on the specialty of research.
[quote=“write4u, post:34, topic:8126”]
I am trying to focus on the complexity of the human biome in relation to its environment.
Isn’t that my point? The non human biome inhabits specific environments - that’s crucial to understand their role in our physiology.
It’s not some admixture to our entire organism, which is what a sentence like: “Your body is 90% foreign micro-organisms” says. The thought that 90% of (okay 50%) our organs could be non-human biological organism is intellectually (and I dare say spiritually) totally mind-boggling with revolutionary implications.
Yesss… when I first saw Bonnie Bassler’s Ted lecture I was astounded and it changed my entire worldview of nature .
But even as bacterial cells outnumber human cells 10:1, the bacterial mass is onloy 3% of the human cell mass. It just illustrates the incredibly small size of single celled bacteria.
But John Muir was so right : " When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe. One fancies a heart like our own must be beating in every crystal and cell, and we feel like stopping to speak to the plants and animals as friendly fellow mountaineers."
Methods and Results
The human body contains trillions of microorganisms — outnumbering human cells by 10 to 1. Because of their small size, however, microorganisms make up only about 1 to 3 percent of the body’s mass (in a 200-pound adult, that’s 2 to 6 pounds of bacteria), but play a vital role in human health.
[quote=“write4u, post:34, topic:8126”]
“alien” environments all over our bodies that, as long as there is a healthy balance, help us thrive.
[/quote] /quote]
It is true that some of our bacterial friends have their DNA mixed in with ours, but a newborn baby has very few of the necessary bacteria to survive for long and that is why breast milk is one of the sources where the mother provides necessary bacteria in her milk. Fortunately, beneficial bacteria multiply as fast as harmful bacteria so the baby in a clean environment quickly builds
The Maternal Infant Microbiome: Considerations for Labor and Birth
See other articles in PMC that cite the published article.
Abstract
The human microbiome plays a role in maintaining health, but is also thought to attenuate and/or exacerbate risk factors for adverse maternal-child health outcomes. The development of the microbiome begins in utero, however factors related to the labor and birth environment have been shown to influence the initial colonization process of the newborn microbiome. This “seeding” or transfer of microbes from the mother to newborn may serve as an early inoculation process with implications for the long-term health outcomes of newborns. Studies have shown that there are distinct differences in the microbiome profiles of newborns born vaginally compared to those born by cesarean
Living on and within each person are complex ecological communities of microbes, or microbiota (Turnbaugh et al., 2007). Consisting of bacteria, fungi, and archaea, these microbiota live in relative symbiotic harmony with their hosts. The collective genomes of these microbes are known as the microbiome. Scientists now understand that each person’s unique collection of traits are actually the result of complex interactions between human and microbiota processes, creating one composite, ‘human supraorganism’ (See table 1). The symbiotic relationship between humans and microbes has evolved over millions of years, allowing each to thrive in their biophysical environment. Rapid changes in human lifestyles over the past 100 years, including profound alterations in modern-day birthing practices (Epstein, 2010), have the potential to transform our microbiome with unknown implications for health and predisposition to disease ([Cho & Blaser, 2012]
But coming back to the OP. It is bacterial communication that fascinates me. Bacteria have no brains or neural networks. How can they communicate and if bacteria don’t need a brain, can AI be developed based on the principles of a bacterial “quorum sensing” model?
It seems ridiculously simple, but is it very effective when considering that bacteria are not only able to communicate on an intra-species level, but are also able to communicate with other bacteria on an inter-species level. Bacteria are multilingual!
Wow, you sidestepped it again.
So, I’m still stuck with hearing you say, it makes no difference, whether or not, that biome occurs in specific regions of our body and not in others.
Then you better learn to have a relationship with your bacterial biome without which you would die and which is not just located in your gut. Bacteria are present on the entire parts of the body that have exposure to air (even internally) , as well as inside anaerobic organs. Some bacteria have their DNA merged with human DNA and have become part of the human genome.
The Human Microbiome: From Symbiosis to Pathogenesis
Abstract
The human microbiota is a complex assemblage of the microbes inhabiting many sites in the human body. Recent advances in technology have enabled deep sequencing and analysis of the members and structures of these communities.
Despite our generally anthropocentric view of the world, it is the microbial population that dominates life on this planet in global diversity and in numbers. The human body itself serves as a scaffold for a multitude of bacteria, archaea, viruses, and eukaryotic microbes that inhabit discrete anatomical niches and outnumber our own somatic and germ cells by an order of magnitude ([1]
Until recently, the complex and dynamic nature of our microbiota was not fully recognized, owing to the technological limitations of in vitro microbiological cultivation techniques and limited throughput of sequencing technologies.
