Free Education

Thought I’d start a separate thread for this offshoot topic from the Bernie thread.
What’s wrong with free education for everyone who wants it?
If it’s merit based and a kid (or any age I guess) qualifies, why not? The only downside I see is that of managing demand. For example the country doesn’t need a million historians. But other than that. And of course not everyone would go to college if they were interested in something else. Now certain other things would have to accompany this, for example promise of a job at a certain salary IF you can cut it. (This all sounds familiar btw, to something I recall from my Philosophy days, Plato’s Republic maybe??)
Point is, other countries seem to consider education a right, and a worthy investment at any level. And if it’s a right, why is it something that costs money? Do we pay “freedom of speech” tuition before voicing an opinion on this forum, in a local Op-Ed section of your newspaper? And so on.

Managing demand is accomplished by aptitude tests.

Managing demand is accomplished by aptitude tests.
And knowledge tests, IQ tests, interviews, in short, what the best schools use now to decide who should be admitted. And anyone who doesn't measure up after, say, a year should be invited to leave. Lois
Managing demand is accomplished by aptitude tests.
And knowledge tests, IQ tests, interviews, in short, what the best schools use now to decide who should be admitted. And anyone who doesn't measure up after, say, a year should be invited to leave. Lois In a larger sense, the free market will also manage demand, e.g., not everyone interested in history, would want to major in it, if there is no subsequent prospect for competitive employment, in doing so.

It was pointed out in the other thread, but nothing is ever free, and I doubt most Americans would want a huge tax increase for something like this.
That said, if we could have it I think the higher Ed. system would have to be overhauled. There is too much frivolous s**t clogging it up.

Since you currently make an investment in education, there is a market incentive to pick something with an ROI. Some people are smart enough and have a good enough public school to leverage their free education into a vocation, especially now with the ability to get college credit while in High School. So, really, aren’t we just sort of making a necessary leap? I mean, at one time, all school had a cost, or it was indentured servitude. Offering just some college credit is kind of a teaser. Either we add another 4 free years or we keep going down this road of complicated incentives and granting programs.
With just one shot at getting a valuable degree in 4 years, the incentive to get it right is still there. I don’t think the economics is the problem since the value of a highly educated populous is worth a lot to me and we could become the inventors and creators for the world that we once were. I think it’s that the people with money right now don’t want a highly educated populous.
And I don’t have a problem with there being higher expectations of behavior and results as you go. I wouldn’t want colleges to become like High Schools.

College education at public universities used to be free or very cheap. Back on the 1960s the University of Texas was free. When I attended San Antonio College (a community college) in the early 1980s the tuition was $5 per credit hour. Germany offers free university education to students from around the world. We could easily pay for people’s college educations without raising taxes. How? Just cut the bloated military budget. I know that is considered a radical idea by many, but it makes sense to spend our money educating our populace instead of killing people around the world. Besides, people with college educations are necessary for us to remain competitive in an increasingly high-tech world. In addition, people with college educations make more money on average than people without college education, and therefore pay more taxes.

It’s totally do-able.
The amount of money the US spends on fueling just Military aircraft for 1 year alone could pay for free-education.
Well the Air-Force spent $9 Billion in 2008 on fuel. You think that’s enough to educate people?
That’s Nine-Thousand-Million Dollars!! Yeah, I think that’s probably enough.

Cutting the F-35 program would save hundreds of millions of dollars. How much money are we still spending money on St. Ronald’s Star Wars defense boondoggle?

It was pointed out in the other thread, but nothing is ever free, and I doubt most Americans would want a huge tax increase for something like this. That said, if we could have it I think the higher Ed. system would have to be overhauled. There is too much frivolous s**t clogging it up.
The current University system is way overpriced. We also need much more advanced education options for actual employable skills, as opposed to the overemphasis in the intellectual arts.

That figure for Aircraft fuel costs was just for The Air Force.
That doesn’t include Navy and Army.

It was pointed out in the other thread, but nothing is ever free, and I doubt most Americans would want a huge tax increase for something like this. That said, if we could have it I think the higher Ed. system would have to be overhauled. There is too much frivolous s**t clogging it up.
And there always will be as long as education is run on a capitalistic basis. Civilized countries seem to be able to create a decent system where students and their families don't have to carry so large a part of the cost burden. Why can't the US? Of course Americans wouldn't want a tax increase. Americans never want a tax increase. That's why the United States is deteriorating in so many areas. We've had our day in the sun, now nightfall--and disaster--is approaching fast. The United States is self-destructing. Lois
It was pointed out in the other thread, but nothing is ever free, and I doubt most Americans would want a huge tax increase for something like this. That said, if we could have it I think the higher Ed. system would have to be overhauled. There is too much frivolous s**t clogging it up.
And there always will be as long as education is run on a capitalistic basis. Civilized countries seem to be able to create a decent system where students and their families don't have to carry so large a part of the cost burden. Why can't the US? Of course Americans wouldn't want a tax increase. Americans never want a tax increase. That's why the United States is deteriorating in so many areas. We've had our day in the sun, now nightfall--and disaster--is approaching fast. The United States is self-destructing. LoisI think the bottom line is, there's no such thing as the United States of America. It's all talk and brainwashing. If there truly was a UNITED set of states, and we thought of other American citizens as our brothers and sisters, we wouldn't mind one bit helping each other out with taxes. Taxes would be considered Patriotic!. Instead it's the exact opposite. Everyone Ive ever mentioned this to's response was "why should I work hard, earn money, then have to pay for someone else's education". Then they put on their coat and head to church to prayer for others souls. What an effed up situation we have here.
It was pointed out in the other thread, but nothing is ever free, and I doubt most Americans would want a huge tax increase for something like this. That said, if we could have it I think the higher Ed. system would have to be overhauled. There is too much frivolous s**t clogging it up.
And there always will be as long as education is run on a capitalistic basis. Civilized countries seem to be able to create a decent system where students and their families don't have to carry so large a part of the cost burden. Why can't the US? Of course Americans wouldn't want a tax increase. Americans never want a tax increase. That's why the United States is deteriorating in so many areas. We've had our day in the sun, now nightfall--and disaster--is approaching fast. The United States is self-destructing. LoisI think the bottom line is, there's no such thing as the United States of America. It's all talk and brainwashing. If there truly was a UNITED set of states, and we thought of other American citizens as our brothers and sisters, we wouldn't mind one bit helping each other out with taxes. Taxes would be considered Patriotic!. Instead it's the exact opposite. Everyone Ive ever mentioned this to's response was "why should I work hard, earn money, then have to pay for someone else's education". Then they put on their coat and head to church to prayer for others souls. What an effed up situation we have here. Too true, and Donald Trump is its champion. Lois

Happy Darwin Day to you AMH!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/clay-naff/darwin-day-revelation-evo_b_9181664.html

Just ran acrosss this stunning article. It is not about free education, but an example of what charter schools are doing in the interest of educational cost savings.

Charter school of 11,000 students drops foreign language—what they offer instead may stun many
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/10/1483022/-Charter-school-of-11-000-students-drops-foreign-languages-what-they-offer-instead-will-stun-many?detail=email

I don’t know about the charter school system in NY but here in Ohio they are a dismal failure. Many have failed to come up to State standards, especially in math and science. And dropping foreign language for a chess class? Why not do both? A colleague and I were chess coaches for our club which we held at lunch and one day after school for further instruction. We volunteered our time and had a successful team that competed in the State competition and several local ones as well. Yet another advantage a public school has over a charter school with limited funds. And in the past, charter schools weren’t as closely monitored as public schools, but they are now and the statistics show substandard results. Also, IMO foreign language classes should be a requirement for any student seeking to enter a university and several should be offered, including Asian languages, and especially Chinese. Our local University language program offers most of the Asian languages including South East Asia, e.g. Vietnamese and we now have an increasing number of Asian students here in the hinterland. Personally, I hate being so monolingual!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/06/12/troubled-ohio-charter-schools-have-become-a-joke-literally/
Cap’t Jack

Thought I'd start a separate thread for this offshoot topic from the Bernie thread. What's wrong with free education for everyone who wants it? If it's merit based and a kid (or any age I guess) qualifies, why not? The only downside I see is that of managing demand. For example the country doesn't need a million historians. But other than that. And of course not everyone would go to college if they were interested in something else. Now certain other things would have to accompany this, for example promise of a job at a certain salary IF you can cut it. (This all sounds familiar btw, to something I recall from my Philosophy days, Plato's Republic maybe??) Point is, other countries seem to consider education a right, and a worthy investment at any level. And if it's a right, why is it something that costs money? Do we pay "freedom of speech" tuition before voicing an opinion on this forum, in a local Op-Ed section of your newspaper? And so on.
*thread bump* Providing free education to every American who wants it is impossible. A much smaller nation can do it but not this colossus. I agree the cost of higher ed is outrageous and would support more government funding - but for STEM majors only, because of their benefit to society at large. As to the second point: other countries don't really consider education to be a higher priority than America, they are much smaller in every way and have more money to spend on education - and much of that investment is wasted.
Thought I'd start a separate thread for this offshoot topic from the Bernie thread. What's wrong with free education for everyone who wants it? If it's merit based and a kid (or any age I guess) qualifies, why not? The only downside I see is that of managing demand. For example the country doesn't need a million historians. But other than that. And of course not everyone would go to college if they were interested in something else. Now certain other things would have to accompany this, for example promise of a job at a certain salary IF you can cut it. (This all sounds familiar btw, to something I recall from my Philosophy days, Plato's Republic maybe??) Point is, other countries seem to consider education a right, and a worthy investment at any level. And if it's a right, why is it something that costs money? Do we pay "freedom of speech" tuition before voicing an opinion on this forum, in a local Op-Ed section of your newspaper? And so on.
The problem is that other countries have never had to deal with a party like our Republican party that will up-end every attempt to institute something similar. It is bound and determined to stand in the way of any such ideas of progress, and it has been successful in forcing its will on the American public. Now it has the power to dismantle everything that slipped through despite its determination to stop it.