Okay, not really “forced”, but I have a friend’s 5 year old who has started insisting we pray when we eat together. Does anyone have a lower age limit when it comes to discussing theological issues? I wouldn’t have a problem praying with an older matriarch or some other respectful reason, but I feel I’m doing her a disservice if I do nothing.
Her mom is liberal, but has gone to church all her life. She is divorced and is in a racially mixed relation now. Her ex is gay. Point is, the kid has been exposed to diversity. What brought this on is the daycare she started that is in a not so liberal church. I’m not looking to preach atheism to her, I’d just say that some people don’t pray. This wouldn’t be a surprise to the mother or anyone else, but I can’t completely predict their reaction, but I don’t anticipate any major problems.
Just wonderin’ what y’all think.
I guess this would depend on how the mother would react. Do you think she would be offended if you just stated to her daughter that prayer is a very personal choice and while she is certainly welcome to pray, it’s not polite to insist on others to participate?
Okay, not really "forced", but I have a friend's 5 year old who has started insisting we pray when we eat together. Does anyone have a lower age limit when it comes to discussing theological issues? I wouldn't have a problem praying with an older matriarch or some other respectful reason, but I feel I'm doing her a disservice if I do nothing. Her mom is liberal, but has gone to church all her life. She is divorced and is in a racially mixed relation now. Her ex is gay. Point is, the kid has been exposed to diversity. What brought this on is the daycare she started that is in a not so liberal church. I'm not looking to preach atheism to her, I'd just say that some people don't pray. This wouldn't be a surprise to the mother or anyone else, but I can't completely predict their reaction, but I don't anticipate any major problems. Just wonderin' what y'all think.Maybe say something along the lines of this to the child: "I'm one of those people who doesn't like to pray out loud. I think it's better to pray quietly to myself. If you would like to pray out loud, I will be quiet and listen, if you like, but I don't want to do it myself. OK?" There is no reason to have a discussion about atheism or belief to the child. (Someone very wise has said, "Don't involve children in adult issues.") If this doesn't work and you get an argumemt from the child, you will have to quietly ask the mother to tell the child to not ask you to pray because praying makes you feel uncomfortable. If the child is persistent and the mother can't or won't control the child, you will have to arrange to avoid being in situations where the child will make such a demand. Don't allow yourself to be manipulated by a child--but you also should not try to explain atheism to him or her. Work around it any way you can think, but don't be drawn into any sort of conversation about belief with the child. Lois
If it bothers you that much, just say “no, I don’t pray”.
If her mom gives you s**t, tell her not to dump her kid on you again.
When I was really young, I assumed all families said grace before dinner. When I would visit new friends houses, sometimes I would ask if they are going to say grace, the parent would usually just kindly say, “we don’t say grace, but you can.” I don’t think that’s a bad response as long as the child doesn’t feel embarrassed or put down. Another approach could be just to be inquisitive to show interest and say, “let me hear what you say…”
Her mom is liberal, but has gone to church all her life. She is divorced and is in a racially mixed relation now. Her ex is gay. Point is, the kid has been exposed to diversity. What brought this on is the daycare she started that is in a not so liberal church. I’m not looking to preach atheism to her, I’d just say that some people don’t pray. This wouldn’t be a surprise to the mother or anyone else, but I can’t completely predict their reaction, but I don’t anticipate any major problems.First of all, my advice is to talk to the mother about your concern with praying and let her explain it to the child, besides, kids this age are incapable of understanding complex issues and will only be confused by any explanation concerning religion. They pray because they've been told to do so by a trusted adult. It's obvious that the child learned this behavior from the teachers at the daycare, as it is church affiliated and peer pressure is a great determiner in how a child behaves. So, if her praying at the dinner table really bothers you, you may excuse yourself and wait for her to finish or wait patiently until the kid is done. This ritual will continue until the mother decides to take action and either find a more secular daycare (pretty hard to do in most areas, especially rural ones) or until the child reaches an age when the mother can begin to plant the seed of skepticism. Cap't Jack
Good feedback. I don’t think I’ll dump it on the kid at the next meal!
I’m not sure exactly where the mom is with the daycare. It’s high quality and convenient for her and I don’t think she has thought through the issues of religious pluralism or the dangers of having her kid hang around with fundamentalists. We have a good relationship so I don’t anticipate major drama.
A note on tone, I’m not bothered by the praying, she can pray all she wants and sing her Jesus songs. I have the same problem with demanding I pray that I do with her demanding that I play Barbies with her. I’ll do it, but she doesn’t get to pout or throw a fit if I don’t.
You could just say an atheist compatible formal statement instead of a “prayer”. Something like: “We feel grateful for this time of being together and sharing sustenance. We hope to enjoy this meal and each other’s company. We will strive to eat what is good for us, chew our food properly, and hope not to have indigestion afterwards. So be it.”
You could just say an atheist compatible formal statement instead of a "prayer". Something like: "We feel grateful for this time of being together and sharing sustenance. We hope to enjoy this meal and each other's company. We will strive to eat what is good for us, chew our food properly, and hope not to have indigestion afterwards. So be it."Not bad. But if the child is inquisitive and persistent, she'll have a thousand questions to ask that will be hard to answer, such as, "Don't you thank god?" Lois
You could just say an atheist compatible formal statement instead of a "prayer". Something like: "We feel grateful for this time of being together and sharing sustenance. We hope to enjoy this meal and each other's company. We will strive to eat what is good for us, chew our food properly, and hope not to have indigestion afterwards. So be it."I was thinking of something more devious, like learning some Hebrew. Your idea is probably better.
Lausten here’s an alternative mode.
As an atheist you can bullshit through it.
Pray with the kid. It’s a win-win for everybody.
The kid’s happy, you’re happy that the kid’s happy.
The kid will come to his own senses in time. He’ll make the right choice. For now he wants to pray.
Let’em pray. Go along with it. It don’t cost you anything. 
edit. I see it’s a little girl.
You could just say an atheist compatible formal statement instead of a "prayer". Something like: "We feel grateful for this time of being together and sharing sustenance. We hope to enjoy this meal and each other's company. We will strive to eat what is good for us, chew our food properly, and hope not to have indigestion afterwards. So be it."Not bad. But if the child is inquisitive and persistent, she'll have a thousand questions to ask that will be hard to answer, such as, "Don't you thank god?" LoisIf the kid is bright enough and curious enough to ask the question, then she can handle the answer, or blow it off.
Sometimes, you’ve just gotta “Eat, Pray, Love.”
Sometimes, you've just gotta "Eat, Pray, Love." :)Ew, bad example. I absolutely hated that movie. I hear the book wasn't any better. Besides the "Oprah" advice, I hate movies about rich people who are struggling with their personal problems. Go work in a soup kitchen if you can't figure out what your life is about.
Sometimes, you've just gotta "Eat, Pray, Love." :)Ew, bad example. I absolutely hated that movie. I hear the book wasn't any better. Besides the "Oprah" advice, I hate movies about rich people who are struggling with their personal problems. Go work in a soup kitchen if you can't figure out what your life is about. Sorry. It was just on some ad right when I was looking through this thread. Never actually saw the movie.
Sometimes, you've just gotta "Eat, Pray, Love." :)Ew, bad example. I absolutely hated that movie. I hear the book wasn't any better. Besides the "Oprah" advice, I hate movies about rich people who are struggling with their personal problems. Go work in a soup kitchen if you can't figure out what your life is about. Sorry. It was just on some ad right when I was looking through this thread. Never actually saw the movie. I never read the book or saw the movie. They lost me after "Eat".