Finding our own meaning in life is delusional

If materialism, naturalism, and scientism are true, then you would be delusional to find meaning in your life (as stated by materialism, naturalism, and scientism which state that life is just a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles). There are things in science that do have objective meaning. For example, the fact that the Earth revolves around the sun is a scientific fact and you would, therefore, be delusional to think otherwise. Same thing with creating our own meanings in life since life really has no meaning in terms of science. You would, therefore, be delusional in finding your own personal meanings in life since life has no meaning. If you are going to say something here such as that this is a logical fallacy I am presenting here, then what I would have to say in return is that your own personal viewpoints in that people would not be delusional in creating their own meanings in life, this would also be a logical fallacy since finding your own personal meanings in life when life has no meaning is a contradiction. I don’t even care if it’s in our evolutionary design to find meaning in life in order to survive and benefit our survival. You would still be delusional in finding your own meanings in life anyway.
Now you might also be thinking that, since it is in our evolutionary design to find meaning in life in order to survive and benefit our survival, that to even perceive this as delusional would contradict our evolutionary design and would be a delusional viewpoint in of itself in terms of evolution as a result. But this would be false because the only way for it to contradict our evolutionary design is if we were to tell ourselves the message that “We are not designed by evolution to find meaning in our lives.” That would be the only message that would contradict our evolutionary design. Telling ourselves that “We are delusional in finding meaning in our lives” does not contradict our evolutionary design.
To say that something IS when, in reality, it is not, would be delusional regardless of what you think otherwise. So any personal meanings you create in life are your brain’s way of telling you that these meanings ARE. Even if you tell yourself something such as that these meanings you create are not objective (definite) meanings, the fact is, for you to view these personal meanings as true for yourself and for your personal life is your mind’s way of telling you that these meanings are definite meanings which would be false since they are not. It would be saying that since even you as a person are a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles, that any personal meanings you create hold true for you which would be false because you would be saying that you and this life both have meaning while at the same time they both don’t have meaning which is contradictory.
So for you to believe that any personal meaning you create in life holds true for you and holds true for your own personal life would be no different than saying that “I know that it’s a scientific fact that the Earth revolves around the sun. But I don’t have to believe that it holds true for me as a person nor that it holds true for me in my own personal life and that I can create any personal meaning I want and instead believe that meaning holds true for me and holds true for my own personal life. I can believe anything I want such as that the Earth is flat and is the center of the universe and that words don’t have to mean what they mean or that scientific facts have to be what they are. I can say that the color blue is actually the color black, that hot is cold, etc. and this will hold true for me and my own personal life while in actual reality itself it doesn’t hold true at all. And even if these personal meanings don’t hold true at all for me and in my own personal life, I can still have them anyway in my life and live by them anyway.”
So as you can see here, this would be nonsense since it is a scientific fact that life has no meaning and that we are also a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles. This is no different than the mindset of a religious person who has a delusional belief in a God and the supernatural. Therefore, it’s not just religious people and delusional people who are the only ones delusional. Even atheists, highly intelligent people, and scientists themselves can be delusional here. Sure, you can still live by those personal meanings you have created in life despite knowing that they are not true since this universe does not tell us how we should think, but it would all still be nonsense anyway. I don’t even care about the fact that if we didn’t have any created personal meanings in life, that we would all be dead since we would all just be sitting there and not finding any reason to get up and eat, socialize, or do any other activities. We would all still be living nonsensical and delusional lives anyway for being human and living our personal lives and making the best of this life regardless of the fact that this is in our evolutionary design to do so and that this is how evolution designed us. It’s only if this life had an objective meaning through there being a God and an afterlife of eternal joy would we find reason to live our lives and find that meaning in our lives.
Now if you are going to ask something such as that “To be is not to be? To be is not the way to be?” what I would have to say to that would be that there is no “way” in the first place since even that quoted word is a personal meaning. Also, to say that concepts such as value, worth, and beauty do exist in this universe, but are not things that are scientific and can’t be defined by science and, therefore, you are free to live by them and not view them as being delusional since they are separate from this universe and are not a part of this meaningless universe and can’t be defined by this meaningless universe, this would be false. These concepts are created by the meaningless atoms and particles in our brains that come up with these concepts in the first place (so these might be measurable concepts in the future through advanced neurological technology that can measure the amount of value, worth, and beauty in this person’s mind by measuring the amount of activity of those atoms and particles that have created these concepts in this person’s mind). Therefore, these concepts ARE the functioning of those atoms and particles that have created them in our brains and are, therefore, meaningless as well and to view them as being true for yourself and true for your personal life would be delusional nonsense.
How we come to the conclusion (the scientific fact) that this universe is meaningless is through scientific evidence. Therefore, you might be thinking that since there is also scientific evidence for created personal meanings being accomplished as something meaningful in life, in helping ourselves and others, doing great things in life, keeping us alive, etc. that this would somehow mean that these created meanings are not delusional nonsense. But this would be false. This entire universe and everything in it is all meaningless and the meaningless of all these things is what defines even our own personal created meanings in life. The scientific fact of this universe being meaningless tells us that our created meanings are false just like how the scientific fact of the Earth revolving around the sun tells us that we would be false to have created personal meanings that say things such as that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the sun revolves around the Earth instead.
If you are going to say something such as that “Of course it doesn’t. You might as well say that Newton’s law of gravitation explains why I don’t like garlic.”
What I would have to say to that would be that other scientific properties besides gravity does explain why we come up with personal meanings. Since it is just the functioning of the atoms and particles in our brains that create meaning, then it is the scientific properties that define these atoms and particles in our brains and how they function which is what explains why we come up with meanings and why we perceive things the way we do (such as why we like something or don’t like it or any other created meaning for that matter). It would be the wiring of our brains and other scientific properties that explain how and why we have personal meanings in life.
Now if you are going to ask me something such as for me to define “meaning,” what I would have to say to that would be that there is no meaning. It is just a bunch of atoms and particles and that is it. But this would only hold true for things besides scientific facts such as the Earth revolving around the sun and also the scientific fact that this life has no meaning.
Words actually don’t have definite meaning. What defines meaning is all the functioning of the neurons in our brains and how they are all wired. If someone were to speak words to you in another language and you had no knowledge of that language, then it would all just be your own subjective interpretations (meanings) of those words. Same thing for our English words for other people who speak other languages. This would also even hold true for our own English words for us who speak English. Since this universe doesn’t tell us how we should think, then words also don’t tell us how we should interpret them. Therefore, even our own personal created meanings in life do not have definite meaning for ourselves and for our own personal lives. So for you to say that your personal created meanings hold true (definite) for you and for your own life would be false. All that defines what is true or false in this universe (and that would include anything about us as people and our own personal lives) is things that are objective scientific facts just in terms of the functioning of atoms and particles and not our personal created meanings in life.
We might be able to scan your brain that has created any personal meanings and we would look at that and say that it is a scientific fact that this is how your brain is wired in having these personal meanings in your brain. But it does not tell us that it is a scientific fact that these personal meanings hold true for you and for your own personal life. So science tells us that life has no meaning and that we can all create our own personal meanings in life. However, these created meanings would not be true (definite) at all for ourselves and in our own personal lives.
Finally, even Stephen Hawking himself has stated that philosophy is dead and that science is all there is. The viewpoints that others have regarding that you can find your own personal meanings in life and that this would not be delusional, these are philosophical viewpoints which would actually be “dead” (false).

Mozart Link, I recommend you read Camus’ Myth of Sisyphus].
To negate the quest for meaning is itself a quest for meaning. However you slice it, you will continue to search for meaning for the rest of your life even if you believe, philosophically, that there is no meaning to be found. That is part of the human condition.
It is true that there is no greater cosmic purpose, of the theological sort, but that in no way invalidates the sorts of meanings that each of us attaches to things in our daily lives. There is no need for existential drama. No need for Nausea]. Relax. Enjoy life, within acceptable socially responsible boundaries. A lack of higher, theological, meaning is as much a reason to feel light, happy and free as it is to feel so dark. Think The Unbearable Lightness of Being]. Look in the mirror and smile. Laugh a little. Life and all of its mysteries are a bit funny, really, aren’t they. A real joy.
Also, try reading Paul Kurtz’s Exuberance].

To say that something IS when, in reality, it is not, would be delusional regardless of what you think otherwise. So any personal meanings you create in life are your brain’s way of telling you that these meanings ARE. Even if you tell yourself something such as that these meanings you create are not objective (definite) meanings, the fact is, for you to view these personal meanings as true for yourself and for your personal life is your mind’s way of telling you that these meanings are definite meanings which would be false since they are not. It would be saying that since even you as a person are a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles, that any personal meanings you create hold true for you which would be false because you would be saying that you and this life both have meaning while at the same time they both don’t have meaning which is contradictory.
Now if you are going to ask me something such as for me to define “meaning,” what I would have to say to that would be that there is no meaning. It is just a bunch of atoms and particles and that is it. But this would only hold true for things besides scientific facts such as the Earth revolving around the sun and also the scientific fact that this life has no meaning.

Why do you write?

Life means as much or as little as you want it to.
The rest is up to you.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Other Quadrant, excellent comment, glad you shared it,
more stuff to read.
:slight_smile:

If you are going to say something here such as that this is a logical fallacy I am presenting here, then what I would have to say in return is that your own personal viewpoints in that people would not be delusional in creating their own meanings in life, this would also be a logical fallacy since finding your own personal meanings in life when life has no meaning is a contradiction.
Mozart, it can be unpleasant to read your posts sometimes. Look at the above and tell me how it differs from two grade school children standing off and saying, "oh yeah, well, if you say I'm stupid, then you're stupid". You've taken one of the greatest human questions, "why?" and turned it into nothing. The greatest minds of our day have invented an entirely new science, neuroscience to try to understand what our minds are doing and you've declared you got it all figured out and you come here and tell us, then tell us that anything say won't mean anything. I don't know how old you are, so sorry if this insulting, but it's getting pretty old. Usually, somewhere in the middle of 500 words, there is this inkling that you are actually seeing the contradictions in your own words and trying to work it out, but mid-sentence you go back to "it just is because I say so". Even if you are right, that's not how you change people's minds. Even if you are just talking about baseball, it's not how you have a conversation.

Post Continued
So for you to believe that any personal meaning you create in life holds true for you and holds true for your own personal life would be no different than saying that “I know that it’s a scientific fact that the Earth revolves around the sun. But I don’t have to believe that it holds true for me as a person nor that it holds true for me in my own personal life and that I can create any personal meaning I want and instead believe that meaning holds true for me and holds true for my own personal life. I can believe anything I want such as that the Earth is flat and is the center of the universe and that words don’t have to mean what they mean or that scientific facts have to be what they are. I can say that the color blue is actually the color black, that hot is cold, etc. and this will hold true for me and my own personal life while in actual reality itself it doesn’t hold true at all. And even if these personal meanings don’t hold true at all for me and in my own personal life, I can still have them anyway in my life and live by them anyway.”
So as you can see here, this would be nonsense since it is a scientific fact that life has no meaning and that we are also a bunch of meaningless atoms and particles. This is no different than the mindset of a religious person who has a delusional belief in a God and the supernatural. Therefore, it’s not just religious people and delusional people who are the only ones delusional. Even atheists, highly intelligent people, and scientists themselves can be delusional here. Sure, you can still live by those personal meanings you have created in life despite knowing that they are not true since this universe does not tell us how we should think, but it would all still be nonsense anyway. I don’t even care about the fact that if we didn’t have any created personal meanings in life, that we would all be dead since we would all just be sitting there and not finding any reason to get up and eat, socialize, or do any other activities. We would all still be living nonsensical and delusional lives anyway for being human and living our personal lives and making the best of this life regardless of the fact that this is in our evolutionary design to do so and that this is how evolution designed us. It’s only if this life had an objective meaning through there being a God and an afterlife of eternal joy would we find reason to live our lives and find that meaning in our lives.
Now if you are going to ask something such as that “To be is not to be? To be is not the way to be?” what I would have to say to that would be that there is no “way” in the first place since even that quoted word is a personal meaning.

“Meaning” (for ones’ life), is a concept that refers, generally, to a belief that one has regarding what gives one a sense of purpose. It is only delusional, if the particular “meaning”, that one assigns, is based on a belief that persists despite objective evidence to the contrary…
e.g.:
If one’s particular assignation of “meaning” is to maximize their own or others enjoyment of life,
then whether they make headway toward accomplishing such a purpose, could be supported by subjective AND objective evidence. (Thus this particular “meaning” is not necessarily delusional.)
OTOH, there is no objective evidence that ANY of the BILLIONS of humans, who have died, are now experiencing a joyful eternal life. We do have evidence that when humans die, that their bodies no longer respond as do living organisms. Their neurons, eventually, stop functioning on any level. They decompose to essential elements. There is no supportable objective evidence that any of the BILLIONS of dead humans have reported back, joyful or otherwise, despite having a supposed eternity to do so. (Thus this particular meaning, that we are living to enjoy an eternal afterlife, is, most likely, delusional.)

"Meaning" (for ones' life), is a concept that refers, generally, to a belief that one has regarding what gives one a sense of purpose. It is only delusional, if the particular "meaning", that one assigns, is based on a belief that persists despite objective evidence to the contrary.. e.g.: If one's particular assignation of "meaning" is to maximize their own or others enjoyment of life, then whether they make headway toward accomplishing such a purpose, could be supported by subjective AND objective evidence. (Thus this particular "meaning" is not necessarily delusional.) OTOH, there is no objective evidence that ANY of the BILLIONS of humans, who have died, are now experiencing a joyful eternal life. We do have evidence that when humans die, that their bodies no longer respond as do living organisms. Their neurons, eventually, stop functioning on any level. They decompose to essential elements. There is no supportable objective evidence that any of the BILLIONS of dead humans have reported back, joyful or otherwise, despite having a supposed eternity to do so. (Thus this particular meaning, that we are living to enjoy an eternal afterlife, is, most likely, delusional.)
How we come to the conclusion (the scientific fact) that this universe is meaningless is through scientific evidence. Therefore, you might be thinking that since there is also scientific evidence for created personal meanings being accomplished as something meaningful in life, in helping ourselves and others, doing great things in life, keeping us alive, etc. that this would somehow mean that these created meanings are not delusional nonsense. But this would be false. This entire universe and everything in it is all meaningless and the meaningless of all these things is what defines even our own personal created meanings in life. The scientific fact of this universe being meaningless tells us that our created meanings are false just like how the scientific fact of the Earth revolving around the sun tells us that we would be false to have created personal meanings that say things such as that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the sun revolves around the Earth instead. Finally, I'm just going to throw one more thought of mine out here in case it is convincing and refutes all of philosophy and the beliefs about finding your own value in life not being delusional nonsense. To say that concepts such as value, worth, and beauty do exist in this universe, but are not things that are scientific and can't be defined by science and, therefore, you are free to live by them and not view them as being delusional since they are separate from this universe and are not a part of this meaningless universe and can't be defined by this meaningless universe, this would be false. These concepts are created by the meaningless atoms and particles in our brains that come up with these concepts in the first place (so these might be measurable concepts in the future through advanced neurological technology that can measure the amount of value, worth, and beauty in this person's mind by measuring the amount of activity of those atoms and particles that have created these concepts in this person's mind). Therefore, these concepts ARE the functioning of those atoms and particles that have created them in our brains and are, therefore, meaningless as well and to view them as being true for yourself and true for your personal life would be delusional nonsense.

Mozart, I think you are on the right track when you suggest that everything, including our words, thoughts, concepts, etc. are the product of the natural processes of our universe. Where I think that you are a bit off track is in your use of the word “delusional”. The typically accepted definition of the word “delusion” has to do with a belief that persists regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Also, it does not follow that simply because our thoughts, etc. are products of a natural universe, instead of being the product of a fictitious supreme being, they are therefore meaningless.

Where I think that you are a bit off track is in your use of the word "delusional". The typically accepted definition of the word "delusion" has to do with a belief that persists regardless of evidence to the contrary. Also, it does not follow that simply because our thoughts, etc. are products of a natural universe, instead of being the product of a fictitious supreme being, they are therefore meaningless.
Yes. How would a supreme being really provide any greater sense of meaning anyway?
Also, it does not follow that simply because our thoughts, etc. are products of a natural universe, instead of being the product of a fictitious supreme being, they are therefore meaningless.
Yes. How would a supreme being really provide any greater sense of meaning anyway? As George Carlin put it, we could spend eternity kissing his holy ass. I'll take a meaningless universe over that.
The typically accepted definition of the word "delusion" has to do with a belief that persists regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Mozart handles this by simply claiming that it is a scientific fact that there is no meaning to life. He then attaches meaning to what it means that "there is no meaning to life" and proceeds to tells us that it means we are just as delusional as Bible believing Christians. This is complete abuse of the scientific method. The purpose of the method is to give us building material to get off of the island of meaningless, that place where nothing can be proven. Mozart uses it to make unsubstantiated claims. Well, he doesn't use the method, he just uses the word, as if it means what he thinks it does. In other he commits the very fallacy that he puts in quotes then points to and says is nonsense.
To say that something IS when, in reality, it is not, would be delusional regardless of what you think otherwise. So any personal meanings you create in life are your brain's way of telling you that these meanings ARE. Even if you tell yourself something such as that these meanings you create are not objective (definite) meanings, the fact is, for you to view these personal meanings as true for yourself and for your personal life is your mind's way of telling you that these meanings are definite meanings which would be false since they are not.
These points of yours are also attempts at meaning. If there is no such thing as meaning, then it can not be that meaningful to say that there is no meaning. Mozart Link, you are trapped in this condition. The next question is where you will go from there. I'm telling you, my brother, read The Myth of Sisyphus]. Or, at least, just read the wikipedia synopsis about it that I linked in. Or even just skim it. I really think that it is up your alley.

From wikipedia->

He begins by describing the absurd condition: Much of our life is built on the hope for tomorrow, yet tomorrow brings us closer to death, the ultimate enemy; people live as if they didn't know about the certainty of death. Once stripped of its common romanticism, the world is a foreign, strange and inhuman place; true knowledge is impossible, and rationality and science cannot reveal the world—such explanations ultimately end in meaningless abstractions and metaphors. "From the moment absurdity is recognized, it becomes a passion, the most harrowing of all." It is not the world that is absurd, nor human thought: the absurd arises when the human need to understand meets the unreasonableness of the world, when "my appetite for the absolute and for unity" meets "the impossibility of reducing this world to a rational and reasonable principle."

Words actually don’t have definite meaning. What defines meaning is all the functioning of the neurons in our brains and how they are all wired. If someone were to speak words to you in another language and you had no knowledge of that language, then it would all just be your own subjective interpretations (meanings) of those words. Same thing for our English words for other people who speak other languages. This would also even hold true for our own English words for us who speak English. Since this universe doesn’t tell us how we should think, then words also don’t tell us how we should interpret them. Therefore, even our own personal created meanings in life do not have definite meaning for ourselves and for our own personal lives. So for you to say that your personal created meanings hold true (definite) for you and for your own life would be false. All that defines what is true or false in this universe (and that would include anything about us as people and our own personal lives) is things that are objective scientific facts just in terms of the functioning of atoms and particles and not our personal created meanings in life.
We might be able to scan your brain that has created any personal meanings and we would look at that and say that it is a scientific fact that this is how your brain is wired in having these personal meanings in your brain. But it does not tell us that it is a scientific fact that these personal meanings hold true for you and for your own personal life. So science tells us that life has no meaning and that we can all create our own personal meanings in life. However, these created meanings would not be true (definite) at all for ourselves and in our own personal lives.

Okay, you just cut and pasted from the OP. You know we aren’t reading your long posts, so you think you can get away with that. Cut and paste also has the look of a programmed response, designed only to annoy real people. So, either you wrote a program to annoy people, or you actually are just annoying us. Do you see the difference? There isn’t any. People talk to you. You expressed personal problems and people were sympathetic. People have made helpful suggestions. You could make some argument that those suggestions are wrong, but instead you just repeat yourself. It’s easy on the computer, Ctrl-C Ctrl-V done. Imagine having a real life conversation with someone repeats entire paragraphs.
You will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of. You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life.
Albert Camus
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/albert_camus.html#YfO40JuLiW3sixIh.99

Okay, you just cut and pasted from the OP. You know we aren't reading your long posts, so you think you can get away with that. Cut and paste also has the look of a programmed response, designed only to annoy real people. So, either you wrote a program to annoy people, or you actually are just annoying us. Do you see the difference? There isn't any. People talk to you. You expressed personal problems and people were sympathetic. People have made helpful suggestions. You could make some argument that those suggestions are wrong, but instead you just repeat yourself. It's easy on the computer, Ctrl-C Ctrl-V done. Imagine having a real life conversation with someone repeats entire paragraphs. You will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of. You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life. Albert Camus Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/albert_camus.html#YfO40JuLiW3sixIh.99
First off, you might of noticed that the content in my previous post is some of the same content in my opening post. I did not copy from what was in my opening post into my recent reply here in repeating what I have already said. Rather, I have copied the new material and new arguments I made from my recent reply and pasted (edited) that back into my opening post. So no, I am not insulting others nor do I have the intention to.
First off, you might of noticed that the content in my previous post is some of the same content in my opening post. I did not copy from what was in my opening post into my recent reply here in repeating what I have already said. Rather, I have copied the new material and new arguments I made from my recent reply and pasted (edited) that back into my opening post. So no, I am not insulting others nor do I have the intention to.
Mozart; I think that is the first time you actually responded to something I said with an actual explanation. Something that wasn't a long winded repetition of earlier thoughts with claims of scientific proof. I didn't memorize the content of your OP and then notice that you had edited it. What actually happened is I was looking for your earlier use of the term "hold true" and stumbled across the duplicate text. Normally OPs remain unedited, or if edited, the author mentions it in their later post. Not that anyone would accuse you of being normal.
Words actually don't have definite meaning...
Words are a product of a special kind of behavior that humans are capable of. Yes they have neurological correlates, as do all behavior, but those neurological correlates develop precisely as they do, because words are functional because of their social outcomes. e.g., we learn to say "water", as a way that sometimes results in our acquiring water from another person. We also learn to say "water", in a way that results in social approval from others who appreciate that we can label water. We also learn to say "water" because using the word in other ways also, sometimes, provides some sort of gain for us. How is this meaningless? You say that pleasure is meaningful. Using words increases our prospects for experiencing pleasure. Using words increases our prospects for survival. So how can one say that words have no definable meaning? That seems to me to be nonsensical. Nonverbal behaviors, e.g., walking, also have neurological correlates. Would you argue that walking is meaningless?