Faith with science is it BS?

I try and do religion philosophically, psychologically, discursively. It works better here than with the religious! They find it impossible to objectify. Even in the UK on the best web arena. With the one exception of a superb Anglican priest, in private of course.

Some Anglican/Episcopalian priest are great. I had/have a lot of respect for the late Bishop John Shelby Spong.

Yeah I give him 7 marks out of 12. The rest is Spongiform Theolopathy :wink:

Never totally sure what MPC is alluding to. I’m thinking this is a case of a theologian speaking of openness and doubt in private, while preaching something else. I surprised my pastor one time, he said he would be at a certain restaurant and I could stop by, but I don’t think he expected to me show up. Another friend/congregant also came by, but that one was much more traditionally Catholic and this pastor was always very liberal with me. He used the most “believey” language I had ever heard from him. I commented on it later and he said he adjusts his words to different people. That was the beginning of the end of my churching

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He was a lovely chap and met me where I was in my head in his abbey study. I’m sure he too would be all things to all men and more than capable of charting a safe via media when preaching. In an academic environment he’d be completely disinterested I’m sure.

If I had my religious druthers, I’d prefer Spong, Tom Harper, Don Cupitt, Anthony Freeman (excommunicated for writing “God In Us”) and others like them. If you haven’t read “God In Us” by Anthony Freeman, I recommend you do. He was actually excommunicated for something he wrote and was taken out of context. But yes, let’s discuss these reformer and their ideas. I would enjoy discussing Bishop Spong’s 12 reformations and of course the others’ ideas, if you’ve read their works.

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I’m a mere dilettante, but I like Cupitt. Must read up on the other chaps.

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Here’s Tom Harpur, if you haven’t heard him. My favourite line in his speech here is, “Religion is mythology misunderstood. Let me say that again. Religion is mythology misunderstood.”

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DO! I highly recommend them for everyone who truly wants to learn about modern day religion. Acharya S (DM Murdock) is good, but she was an anthropologist. These guys, while theologians, are not apologists and they make no apology about it. Another, not quite as far left as the Bishops and priests (all Anglican/Episcopalian) is Karen Armstrong. She’s a former nun. She left the convent long ago. I forgot why, but probably because she couldn’t believe like the Catholic Church wanted her to believe.

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I love Armstrong. She refuses to call herself a Christian. Apologetics are all, as in all, utterly pathetic, third rate, defensive, whinging, baseless, blustering, and a lot more adjectives like imparsimonious, fallacious arrogance.

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Have you’ve read any of Borg’s work? I haven’t yet, but am wanting to. If you have, what do you think of what he has to say?

I’ve not read his work per se, but am superficially familiar with it, dilettante as I am, and that of Crossan in The Jesus Seminar. They seem to be the two pristine faces of the same coin.

I have the same rational, deconstructive, scientific, forensic, historical, anthropological, etc-ical approach; accept all that they say. But :slight_smile:

So, in another life I would read everything and agree with all of it. But still ‘But’. I am the double minded man, unstable in all his ways of James 1:8

Hence my giving Spong 7/12.

If I were religious, I’d be more inclined to to agree with Harper and Freeman in that we are all one and it (whatever it is) flows through all of us, other animals, the earth, the universe… and whatever we do, affects others. Our actions are not without consequences that affect everyone, especially those closest to us. We are all connected. We are all one. Even our actions today, affect future generations and the actions of our ancestors, both living and dead, affect us today. Thus the Native American saying, “All my relations” is a true saying, especially if you understand all of this, because they too have a very similar belief.

So all of these myths (religion is mythology misunderstood) are tribal stories to explain things we have no answer to as of yet. For all we know “it” maybe the life force of the universe connecting us all because we are all part of the universe. Everything found in the universe is found in us (or vise versa- everything found in us is found in the universe). Even today, whatever we don’t understand scientifically, humans attempt to explain away with the lame excuse of “god did it”, “god’s will”, etc. Then again, we do have a group of humans who don’t understand science, deny it because they don’t understand it, and insist on lame superstitious faith that kills them and/or others.

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:clap: :clap: :clap:

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One of my Christian fantasy story themes, I’ve yet to write, is The Hound of Heaven. After seeing an unspeakable video report of the… treatment of an animal in China. Everything transcends or nothing does. Everything that suffers. Do you know Doris Lessing’s Canopus in Argos series? Part of her Nobel oeuvre. It… transcends. I’m moved to this moment remembering one of the many nested stories, about a little cat.

I tickled the back of a linden moth one night He liked it. Everything wants to be loved. My personal visualization of God the Holy Ghost is of an Irish wolfhound of fire making Lissajous round the other Persons and all beings.

God I yearn. Sorry :slight_smile:

This is the most persuasive argument about science v religion ever. It is brilliant!

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