Finally I need to make an important point here. Testosterone levels are essentially meaningless regardless of common wisdom and misleading commercials for testosterone supplements. Small differences in testosterone have no affect on any of the characteristics we would associate with manliness. I could line up ten men with low testosterone levels and ten with high levels and I guarantee no one here would be able to tell which man fell into which group. So although the intent of the original comment was to imply that men who have more equal relationships with their wives are somehow less of a man because his testosterone levels are lower this not supported by the science.
You're going to have to elaborate on this. :blank:
Finally the last study you sited about more egalitarian relationships having less sex is fraught with all sorts of mine fields. This is a simple observational study. Its impossible to draw cause and effect conclusions from these sorts of studies and when people do they generally tend to draw the conclusion that fits their world view. There are multiple other possible interpretations. In addition to the conclusion you are implying, It is possible that men and women who are less interested in sex are more interested in choosing partners who meet their needs intellectually. Its also possible that families with two working partners work longer hours or more demanding jobs that reduce the number of opportunities for sexual activity. Husbands who see their wives more as equals may also be more likely to take their partners needs into consideration and less likely to demand or even force sex from their spouse when their partner isn't receptive. You have to be very careful about drawing any conclusions from these sorts of studies.
The counterpoints you give are correct, but they don't invalidate my claim that horny women want macho men for sex.
The first study just states that men who have children have lower testosterone levels and the second simply states that men with smaller testical make better fathers. It says nothing about testosterone levels nor does it support the conclusion that the tesitcle of men who assume primary caregiver roles make less testosterone.
Did you miss this part -
"And men who spent more than three hours a day caring for children — playing, feeding, bathing, toileting, reading or dressing them — had the lowest testosterone."
I was referring to the second study in that comment
Finally I need to make an important point here. Testosterone levels are essentially meaningless regardless of common wisdom and misleading commercials for testosterone supplements. Small differences in testosterone have no affect on any of the characteristics we would associate with manliness. I could line up ten men with low testosterone levels and ten with high levels and I guarantee no one here would be able to tell which man fell into which group. So although the intent of the original comment was to imply that men who have more equal relationships with their wives are somehow less of a man because his testosterone levels are lower this not supported by the science.
You're going to have to elaborate on this. :blank:
Finally the last study you sited about more egalitarian relationships having less sex is fraught with all sorts of mine fields. This is a simple observational study. Its impossible to draw cause and effect conclusions from these sorts of studies and when people do they generally tend to draw the conclusion that fits their world view. There are multiple other possible interpretations. In addition to the conclusion you are implying, It is possible that men and women who are less interested in sex are more interested in choosing partners who meet their needs intellectually. Its also possible that families with two working partners work longer hours or more demanding jobs that reduce the number of opportunities for sexual activity. Husbands who see their wives more as equals may also be more likely to take their partners needs into consideration and less likely to demand or even force sex from their spouse when their partner isn't receptive. You have to be very careful about drawing any conclusions from these sorts of studies.
The counterpoints you give are correct, but they don't invalidate my claim that horny women want macho men for sex.
I measure testosterone levels on men on some occasions. Generally its when they are complaining of erectile dysfunction, or fatigue, or simply because they have one of a number of symptoms they heard about in the commercials on TV for testosterone prescription medication. What I have noticed is virtually no correlation between testosterone and sexual function or any physical attributes one would commonly ascribe to manliness. I have found 120 lb men with below average muscle mass that have testosterone levels of 500 and big 200 lb guys who could snap your neck with testosterone levels of 200. In addition, adding testosterone through supplementation rarely makes much difference in sex drive or energy levels despite what the commercials say and it has been known to cause infertility which is not a very manly trait. Large doses of testosterone may lead to increased muscle mass but you would need to raise testosterone levels far more than the differences they are discussing in these studies.
As far as the claim that "horny women want macho men for sex.". I don't have to invalidate a claim you haven't proven. I'm sure we can ask Lois and asanta to validate your expertise on what women want though :-P
The first study just states that men who have children have lower testosterone levels and the second simply states that men with smaller testical make better fathers. It says nothing about testosterone levels nor does it support the conclusion that the tesitcle of men who assume primary caregiver roles make less testosterone.
Did you miss this part -
"And men who spent more than three hours a day caring for children — playing, feeding, bathing, toileting, reading or dressing them — had the lowest testosterone."
I was referring to the second study in that commentLying motherfucker.
The first study just states that men who have children have lower testosterone levels and the second simply states that men with smaller testical make better fathers. It says nothing about testosterone levels nor does it support the conclusion that the tesitcle of men who assume primary caregiver roles make less testosterone.
Did you miss this part -
"And men who spent more than three hours a day caring for children — playing, feeding, bathing, toileting, reading or dressing them — had the lowest testosterone."
I was referring to the second study in that commentLying motherfucker.
mid atlantic, this kind of reaction is completely out of bounds here. It will get you banned.
I measure testosterone levels on men on some occasions. Generally its when they are complaining of erectile dysfunction, or fatigue, or simply because they have one of a number of symptoms they heard about in the commercials on TV for testosterone prescription medication. What I have noticed is virtually no correlation between testosterone and sexual function or any physical attributes one would commonly ascribe to manliness. I have found 120 lb men with below average muscle mass that have testosterone levels of 500 and big 200 lb guys who could snap your neck with testosterone levels of 200.
Many will say otherwise, and your examples are so far off base, it's laughable.
The first study just states that men who have children have lower testosterone levels and the second simply states that men with smaller testical make better fathers. It says nothing about testosterone levels nor does it support the conclusion that the tesitcle of men who assume primary caregiver roles make less testosterone.
Did you miss this part -
"And men who spent more than three hours a day caring for children — playing, feeding, bathing, toileting, reading or dressing them — had the lowest testosterone."
I was referring to the second study in that commentLying motherfucker.
Unless McGyver has had an unseemly relationship with your mom ... Methinks thou protesteth too vigorously.
I measure testosterone levels on men on some occasions. Generally its when they are complaining of erectile dysfunction, or fatigue, or simply because they have one of a number of symptoms they heard about in the commercials on TV for testosterone prescription medication. What I have noticed is virtually no correlation between testosterone and sexual function or any physical attributes one would commonly ascribe to manliness. I have found 120 lb men with below average muscle mass that have testosterone levels of 500 and big 200 lb guys who could snap your neck with testosterone levels of 200.
Many will say otherwise, and your examples are so far off base, it's laughable.
Its not laughable, its just not consistent with what the average person has been told and believes. Testosterone levels are influenced far more by age than anything else. Normal testosterone levels in men are supposed to be between 250 and 800 ( it will vary somewhat depending on the lab and the method being used to test). 18 year olds will frequently have the highest levels but over the age of 50 nearly all men have levels below 400 and most will be below 300. I stand by by statement. If I chose two men of similar age with testosterone levels that were different by several hundred points you would not be able to tell who had the higher or the lower by any physical measure and most likely not by any measure of aggressiveness either.
Equating manliness with testosterone levels is a flawed idea.
Mike, let it go. It’s not worth getting banned for. And for what it’s worth, although I did tell Darron to take testosterone supplements, I meant it more as a figure of speech (as in “man up”) than trying to make a scientific argument. Nobody really knows what the hell is going when it comes to hormones and their impact on sex drive, libido, etc. Testosterone, estrogen, both, or something else, who cares? The point is that whatever Liam Neeson has, the future cuckolds below clearly don’t.
Really, George, you compare a Hollywood projected image of Liam Neeson as the ideal of male machoness, with a few poor anonymous nerds who are trying to be socially responsible?
I guess Brad Pitt’s balls are also shrinking and his wife is poised to leave him for Liam. Diaper daddies | Gulfnews – Gulf News
BTW, who is acclaimed as the highest paid female actress? answer: Angelina Jolie
Does she make as much as the highest paid male actor? No. She makes about the same, as your role model, Liam, although he is not nearly as acclaimed, in the opinion of most, as is Angelina.
Take your own advice and let it go, George. As we say in Texas, when you find yourself in a hole quit digging.
As a Texan, I would just as soon fill in the hole for him, while he's in it... or maybe that's just my testosterone-laden brain, speaking. #bigballsincowtown
A bit of validation of Macgyver’s report:
Just a personal example: When I was young I found that I had a reputation among a number of my relationships of having a very high (multiple) sex drive, and I was a pleasant, mild person. After my prostate cancer, when treated with a testosterone inhibiting clinical trial drug that was supposed to be temporary after radiation, it was determined that the testosterone level didn’t recover. My sex drive went all to hell, but boy do I enjoy being aggressive now. :coolgrin: :lol:
Occam
Its not laughable, its just not consistent with what the average person has been told and believes. Testosterone levels are influenced far more by age than anything else. Normal testosterone levels in men are supposed to be between 250 and 800 ( it will vary somewhat depending on the lab and the method being used to test). 18 year olds will frequently have the highest levels but over the age of 50 nearly all men have levels below 400 and most will be below 300. I stand by by statement. If I chose two men of similar age with testosterone levels that were different by several hundred points you would not be able to tell who had the higher or the lower by any physical measure and most likely not by any measure of aggressiveness either.
Equating manliness with testosterone levels is a flawed idea.
Biologists seem to be in agreement that traits like assertiveness, self confidence, high bone density, increased muscle mass, coordination, are the result of testosterone. Across the world, these traits are considered "masculine". So, I'm going to file your explanations and your final sentence in the worldview cabinet.
:lol: