Elon Musk and Absolute 'Free Speech'

Stating a fact is not the same thing as approving of it.

And the US already did use nuclear weapons and even offered some to France to use in Vietnam.

No, which is why I think NATO should be dissolved, Europe develop its own defense, and the US should stop poking its nose into other countries business and focus on our domestic needs, spending billions of tax payer dollars to arm other states is not the best use of our national wealth and resources.

“And the Solomon Islands want to enter into a defensive agreement with China, yet guess what? The US is most unhappy about that idea,”

I’m not going to keep finding these for you.

Thanks to Trump and Putin, she is seriously thinking about doing that !

Trump showed that USA will not give assume the defense of Europe for eternity.

Putin has shown that war is possible in Europe.

In fact, European armies have been underfunded for years and have lost most of their operational capacities, even France and Germany.

I have no idea what you are talking about Lausten.

I know you don’t. That’s been the flavor of this conversation, hasn’t it? You keep claiming things are simple, that something that happened 60 years ago is relevant to today’s politics, that there is support for your argument everywhere, and it doesn’t seem to matter what anyone else here says

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A topic has been opened about this question:

[Crime against humanity and genocide]

Admittedly, I kind of skimmed this thread from about a week or so ago, but landed on this post.

Isn’t that kind of one of the definitions of Conservative? Hanging on to the past, when things appeared so simple, and a decision was simply black or white.

In both this and your previous reply you forgot to quote me, only you know what you’re talking about. If you are too lazy to follow very basic etiquette by including a quote of what I said, then why should I bother even trying to respond to you.

You have a very curious logic. Why do you think NATO was formed to begin with?

Let me enlighten you.

NATO - the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation - is a 30-nation defensive alliance founded shortly after the end of World War Two. It has its headquarters in Brussels but is dominated by the massive military and nuclear missile power of the US.

The US offers the nuclear umbrella but there is no plan for any kind of offensive military domination unless any of its members is attacked by a wannabe expansionist megalomaniac.

NATO does not seek to occupy anything. It is no threat to any nation unless that nations seeks to expand its territories by force as Russia is doing at this very moment.

Do you really think Putin would stop his expansionist behavior if NATO was dissolved?
Where did you learn this military strategy? Disarm the enemy by disarming yourself?

Yes, history has taught us that small unarmed nations are safe from occupation?
Are you insane?

And as far as the US use of nuclear force, that was in response to Japan’s insufferable attack on Pearl Harbor.
It ended the war didn’t it? The single rule of war is that it must cost the aggressor more than the defender.

As long as the aggressor gains from its aggression there will be aggression.
That is the logic of warfare.

You shouldn’t. I wish you would stop posting altogether. Really? I need find the times you’ve used the word “simple”? I already gave you 15 quotes showing your hyperbole. You moved on to something else.

He did the same thing over there, first defining war crimes so broadly that every government is guilty, but then only calling out Western people for hypocrisy, and when it comes to Putin, adding on the warnings that he gave to NATO. So, it’s a war crime, unless you warn the world you are going to commit it? I don’t know.

Even when I agreed, something you could know about me by reading my history, that Western nations are big bullies and have the biggest guns, he doesn’t even respond. I don’t see any desire for dialog, just wants to be told that he’s right.

In fact the war was lost by Japan, but Japan was unable to acknowledge that.

The use of the first atomic bombs saved many lives, Japanese civil ones mainly.

The battle was the bloodiest in the Pacific, with approximately 160,000 military casualties combined: at least 50,000 Allied and 84,166–117,000 Japanese, including drafted Okinawans wearing Japanese uniforms. According to local authorities, at least 149,425 Okinawan people were killed, died by suicide or went missing, roughly half of the estimated pre-war population of about 300,000.

Imagine the costs of an invasion of Japan !!!

[Battle of Okinawa - Wikipedia]

Oh yeah, a couple weeks ago I was caretaking for a 97 year old guy a couple days. He was a Range Finder on some battleship steaming to Japan. They still invaded, but it was a peaceful invasion. He still blesses that damned thing. Me, considering the mess we’ve made over the subsequence generations, built up on that atom bomb, I’m not so sure. But, history is history and we sleep in the bed we make for ourselves.

Then we have fools like Hugo, who seem to feel these conflicts should last for ever or some indefinable madness like that?

I would like to hear a solution. If we put our government and all past Presidents in jail for war crimes, who would replace them? Some peace loving diplomat? It would still be the same corrupt system. And who is running this world body that dictates who gets to be a leader? If we could prosecute the people with the bombs, then there wouldn’t be bombs. That would be great, but how do you make it happen?

Hugo, here’s your chance to show some substance and shine.
Any suggestions?

NATO was created to resist the perceived threat from the Soviet Union which was dissolved years ago. The creation of NATO led to the creation of the Warsaw Pact, a reaction to the threat posed by NATO. Neither the Soviet Union nor the Warsaw Pact exist.

NATO is not a defensive alliance since it has been deployed without being triggered by a member being attacked, this is why NATO’s assault on Serbia was a war crime, it was not authorized by the UN which makes it an illegal attack on a sovereign nation, a war crime, just as with Ukraine today.

These are readily verifiable facts, I assume facts matter in discussions like this? just let me know if they are not and I’ll stop raising them.

Again that facts show that it is NATO that has been and continues to expand, do you deny this? (again just let me know if facts are unwelcome).

Russia has witnessed and persistently objected to, the Eastward growth of NATO, that is military bases armed with often US weapons and sometime US nuclear weapons. In 1990 the Soviet Union began to shrink yet NATO reacted by growing. As the Soviet Union continued to shrink NATO continued to grow.

It was inevitable that eventually Russia would be forced to act and so it has with Ukraine. Ukraine is now being used by NATO to fight a proxy war against Russia, destroy its economy and precipitate eventual collapse and break up just was the West did to Yugoslavia.

I posted numerous well articulated essays about the reality and threat that NATO poses to World peace if you simply want to cling to the belief that the West, NATO are benevolent, well intentioned in their activities and the the East (Russia, China etc) are evil incarnate then do so, many people prefer fantasy to reality and it just goes to show how powerful the western propaganda is since everything you say is a regurgitation of a pro-West media and not an objective impartial assessment of the facts.

Trolling me again, hassling me again, tut tut.

Also, water is wet. The US Department of Defense was originally named the Department of War. The name change was purely marketing. After WWII we said there was a domino theory, fight them there or they will come here. We made the USSR go bankrupt trying to be colonizers, like us. We ruined the economies in Central America, then complain when the victims want to come here for work. We had a brief "peace dividend, then we declared the forever war on terrorism. We are the only nation that has “theatres” in every corner of the globe. Even when step back and stop installing dictators, we still make sure our corporations are protected wherever they want to do business.


A mod doesn’t troll. Their job is to watch the forums, as well as participate if they have something say in a given forum.

Oh dear, careful there big guy, that persecution complex is rearing its ugly head.