What I have come to understand it is that believing it is like you feel it in your core. In other words it’s not some dry fact you recite but you actually understand and integrate it.
Like when I say I know homosexuality isn’t wrong but I have a hard time believing it (speaking for myself being gay).
I don’t know what your core feels like.
Belief for me is being convinced after learning evidence, talking to others, and checking with my personal experience. If I think something is true but realize I haven’t thought about it, then I question myself. And, most important, I’m open to new data, and will change my mind if needed.
Look up the meaning of the word Philadelphia.
Then compare the words Homosexuality and Homophobia.
Which is the true “wrong” emotion one can feel towards another human being?
That’s close to what I mean. For me I spoke on the gay thing because that’s something I’ve struggled with for a while. For 20 years I’ve tried to shake it but I think the major thing about it for me isn’t the thing itself but what the haters would do to me if they found out.
Sorry to hear this fear still exists. There are many online communities to discuss this, privately. I don’t know why you would want to “shake it”.
Well I want to shake the notion that it’s wrong because it’s followed me my whole life.
But that’s what I mean by believing something versus just knowing it.
Your language is difficult. “followed me” seems like it’s you saying it’s who you are. You talk about these feelings as if they are something separate from you and they haunt you, even something deeply personal like sexual orientation. I don’t know, but I have heard, and I can imagine the culture instills some doubt about those feelings. That’s something we all to deal with to some degree, on various beliefs.
So, I think you’re talking about degrees of your personal conviction for what’s true.
interesting thought, i guess it’s not separate from myself but in a sense it doesn’t feel like me. Especially given the media I consume, in a sense I know there is nothing wrong with it. But the emotional part of me has a hard time buying that.
That’s a very normal comment about emotions.
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You talk about these feelings as if they are something separate from you and they haunt you, even something deeply personal like sexual orientation. I don’t know, but I have heard, and I can imagine the culture instills some doubt about those feelings. That’s something we all to deal with to some degree, on various beliefs.
interesting thought, i guess it’s not separate from myself but in a sense it doesn’t feel like me. Especially given the media I consume, in a sense I know there is nothing wrong with it. But the emotional part of me has a hard time buying that.
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> The Buddha taught that the way to extinguish desire, which causes suffering, is to liberate oneself from attachment.
This is the third Noble Truth - the possibility of liberation.
The Buddha was a living example that this is possible in a human lifetime.
Well they said he did but honestly I find it hard to believe. It’s not like we can check.
I know, I just wish it was easy. I’m tired of living like this.
But you can check yourself. Apparently, you have a complete list of your bad points.
But have you ever made an honest list of your good points? Some little gestures that made someone else happy and express gratitude for your attention?
Ever give your seat to an old lady or a pregnant woman? Helped someone with a task they could not physically complete, and feel pleased to be of assistance in a small way and make someone happy?
Random memory, from the days when I did self-improvement seminars. Someone compared the way people think personal growth works is similar to the Snap-On tools. There are interchangeable pieces; we want to simply snap one off the standard handle and snap on a different one. Problem is, personality aspects and emotional habits of ours don’t interchange that easily. They aren’t parts, they are us. It takes time, introspection, being honest with yourself about your limitations and failures of the past.
Anyway
Well I mean the Buddha thing, can’t really check.
No to all of that.
I’ve done that before, but no matter how much I reflect or introspect nothing changes.
I’m not convinced you are representing yourself truthfully. You might not be a real person at all.
Here’s an excellent example why appreciation of your own body for the evolved biological creature that it is,
and understanding that your thoughts are created by that body of your’s is so important.
All this flailing doesn’t need to be.
I don’t know what to say to convince you. I’ve done introspection and self reflection before. In fact it’s practically almost every other day. Even in the shower too. But it doesn’t feel like anything I do with that sticks. I’m waiting for that “AHA” realization that makes things click but so far nothing.
All I can say is trust me when I say I’ve done that self reflection stuff but nothing comes of it. I still try though.
I can tell that you haven’t. You said you don’t even help others, that tells me you aren’t looking at what makes a difference in the world. You read a lot, by the quotes and name-dropping you do (unless you are faking that), but you dismiss it all. I’ve never seen someone do that, to absorb that much wisdom and say it’s all bunk.
That you are waiting for some “AHA” moment tells me you have skipped over the parts where they tell you it won’t happen that way. It’s like the cartoon where the guy says, “okay universe, give me some inspiration”, and he stands there all day in a beautiful view of trees and a lake, the sun goes down in spectacular color, the stars come out, revealing the vastness of the universe, and he says, “I’m waiting”. Or the one where a guy is surrounded by hungry, crippled, impoverished people and says, “I don’t know what to do to help this world.”
The only people I know who are so resistant are addicts of some kind, whether it’s drugs or thrill seekers or people who do nothing but watch pointless television. They are so focused on that dopamine hit, they don’t care about much else.
I don’t know know what else to say other than that is the case for me.
That’s not too far from the point for me. I generally care about something being immediate and if it takes too long to reach or work for something I don’t always bother with it.
I think there is something deeper in that than you are first getting at. That someone can be surrounded by all that and still come away not knowing might say something about it. you’re assuming this it is “self evident” when it’s not. Even now you’re making assumptions about what I “should have felt” given lots of introspection and self reflection.
Self reflection and introspection doesn’t always lead to change. I can’t tell you why it hasn’t been the case for me all I can say is that it has.
Not really. It’s not easy to explain or summarize an entire worldview in a few sentences, so the examples I gave were merely anecdotes. Watching a sunset or seeing a starving child won’t necessarily change your life. But it has happened, so those kind of stories are still told. You have demonstrated much deeper knowledge and study, so I include that in my analysis of why I question your sincerity in this conversation.
And here, you just admitted that you look for immediate gratification. That’s not uncommon in this world of massive blitzes of color and noise that is intended to give that gratification, and sell you something to keep it coming. So, I’m not blaming you individually, as much as it might sound like I am.
What I’m pointing out is that it appears you are aware of this world. I question my time spent on social media every time I do it. It also helps me communicate my community work and reach friends around the globe. CFI is a place I can try out ideas and bounce around ideas, sometimes it’s a waste of time. That double edge is now part of the world we live in.
So, I’m not assuming anything is self-evident, and I didn’t say all introspection leads to change. What I said is, you show you’ve done some work, you engage in a conversation, you agree with points made by others, then you flip back to things you said on your first post. It’s a trolling pattern, but we get some sophisticated trolls here. (FYI, trolls usually don’t think of themselves as trolls)