Write, Check this out: An African American Paternal Lineage Adds an Extremely Ancient Root to the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree: The American Journal of Human Genetics
A human Y chromosome was dated this year to be about 338, 000 years old. The earliest known fossils of anatomically modern humans are 200,000 years old, but maybe older ones just haven’t been found yet.
TimB Posted: 03 June 2013 12:52 PM
Myself I would like to get rid of religion altogether.
Which ever way man goes it should be by free choice.
In my view it was in Hitler’s plan to setup a religion based on science. That would have been interesting. But many governments need religion to help rule the people.
Thought, it is my belief that –
Man did not use the term “god". They only use the names of the god. The term god was needed to describe stuff like Salem “the city of gods" (Jerusalem).
In Egypt, one temple recorded and logged the gifts of flower arrangements at over 5 million in one month alone. They must have loved their god a lot. Point being that in America we have many new religions. In Egypt the evolution of religions was slow and it really had one main god, Ra. But they all had names.
This forum talks about god in the human mind. But they never talk about the human feeling that god gives. Except you for the first time – “some people take comfort in their religion. “
Example, A local guy that does plumbing and runs a hardware feed store ask me one day what all this Da Vinci Code talk about. He was asking me religious questions so I loaned him a book called the “Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and told him that would be better suited for him.
He called me up to come and get the book latter that day. He had it in the back of the truck. Took it out of the house immediately after starting to read the book.
He was physically destroyed and very upset at some of the first things he read. He wanted to burn the book but since it was loan to him he drove the book away from his house and I met him and took the book. I wanted to drive him home because he was in that bad of physical condition from reading something against his god.
Now this forum will never hear from these guys. But there are a lot of people like him. And they feel closeness to god and warmth comes over them when they commutate with their god.
Now, look at one of the fastest growing religions in America today. Pentecostal, speaking in tongues. Again a physical closeness to god.
You will never get these people away from god.
We may not need religion but they do. Their Christian beliefs come from other believers and they are just digging a big hole to the point they will not fit into regular society.
Write, Check this out: http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S0002929713000736 A human Y chromosome was dated this year to be about 338, 000 years old. The earliest known fossils of anatomically modern humans are 200,000 years old, but maybe older ones just haven't been found yet.Thanks for the link, Tim.
Write4U Post #36
From one of my files. Hope this helps. There is to much to post so this is a sample.
Red Ochre
Internet search data from many sites.
The clay used to produce red ochre is thought to be the “red earth” from which the Hebrew’s God created Adam in the Book of Genesis. In fact, the name “Adam,” meaning “man,” is related to the Hebrew word for “red,” or “adom.” Red ochre can be found in great quantities in the mountains rimming the river basin where archaeologists place the biblical Garden of Eden, now in modern day Iraq.
Ochre was one of the first pigments to be used by human beings. Pieces of haematite, worn down as though they had been used as crayons, have been found at 300,000 year old Homo heidelbergensis sites in France and Czechoslovakia. Neanderthal burial sites sometimes include ochre as a grave good. The oldest evidence of mining activity, at the “Lion Cave” in Swaziland, is a 43,000 year old ochre mine. In Germanic rune lore, red ochre was often used in place of blood to redden, or tint, the runes and thereby instilling the spirit of life into the rune, enabling it to be used for magical purposes.
The earliest undisputed human burial dates back 130,000 years. Human skeletal remains stained with red ochre were discovered in the Skhul cave at Qafzeh, Israel. A variety of grave goods were present at the site, including the mandible of a wild boar in the arms of one of the skeletons.
According to Sally McBrearty of the University of Connecticut in Storrs, for example, ocher processing at Qafzeh adds to evidence of “the very great antiquity of the color red as a symbolic category.” Engraved ocher dates to 77,000 years ago in South Africa.
The Red Ocher culture is found in western Ohio and parts of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Ontario. Red Ocher burials also were placed on natural hills or high spots.
West Coast of the United States
The use of red ocher appears to have been a part of the burial customs here as well. In southern California, graves dating from 6000 to 1000 BC have been found.
Red ocher burial
Found: Mungo National Park, Australia
Dated: about 60,000 years ago
Mesoamerican and Andean center where products from the Maya area and lower Central America were exchanged. Although the spectacular ruins seen today date from the Classic Period (300-900 A.D.), the earliest settlement at the site dates to about 900 B.C. Slightly before that time, about 1000 B.C., the Talgua cave ossuary was already being used for burial rituals that included elements possibly borrowed from the Maya area over two hundred miles west. All the bones had been painted red, and a red mineral pigment was sprinkled on the ground below the bones. The use of the red pigment, which was used so liberally that it stains many sections of the cave wall, is unique among the few Honduran cave ossuaries that are known. The pigment was identified as red ocher.
TimB Post #40
Ya, I know, 500 archaeologist finding rocks arguing a timeline.
One guy in a office with a computer time lining DNA proves them all wrong.
I get the irony. But in fairness, the Y chromosome finding doesn’t necessarily prove archeologists (who assume no anatomically modern humans were around before 200,000 BC) are wrong. But it does bring up some interesting questions.
Yea, it was in the news a couple weeks ago. The Neanderthal which was thought to have been eliminated by modern man was in fact inter-bred with modern man, and now they think that the Neanderthals were just as smart as the modern man. This was done with DNA. Not sure, but I think they said 2% is the amount of Neanderthal genes the average person has today.
Mike, thank you for that post. Very interesting.
However it does not prove anything about the existence of a biblical god. Whatever "knowledge’ was passed on through the ages is merely hearsay, no more than any mythological account of creation or the dawn of man.
Red clay existed long before life occurred on earth. It is also known as “Ultisol” and may well be the cradle of most land based life on earth. Note that it is common to all current continents.
from wiki,
The word "Ultisol" is derived from "ultimate", because Ultisols were seen as the ultimate product of continuous weathering of minerals in a humid, temperate climate without new soil formation via glaciation.and
The oldest fossil Ultisols are known from the Carboniferous period when forests first developed. Though known from far north of their present range as recently as the Miocene, Ultisols are surprisingly rare as fossils overall, since they would have been expected to be very common in the warm Mesozoic and Tertiary paleoclimates.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultisols Sounds like a nursery to me. And it is already a prepared medium for decoration. Scrape a little clay, mix a little water and presto an almost perfect non fading paint. speculation, Perhaps red pigment is just part of history in the evolution of man. Of all colors, deep red evokes the deepest emotions in our 'mirror neural network'. Oddly, sky blue evokes the most tranquil emotions. Earth.....Life......Fire.......Water.......Sky.
Write4U Post 47
Almost there.
Yes, you are right. But who wants a biblical god? In the time mankind has been on earth, very little of that was with a biblical god.
These burials are very important.
Man loves his family. When a member died, the burial is the last he will see of that member. When man learned to mummify he could keep and visit the dead family member.
The burial methods say a lot about mankind and the way he view god.
Why would you mummify and talk to a dead corpus if you did not think it could hear you?
In my option.
Man first needed a god to funnel his love and hurt. So the first gods were created to deal with the feelings of love and wanting of mankind. You can not say that about the biblical god.
Then are all Buddha and Hinduism atheist?Some are, some aren't. It's not important to their creed and Buddha doesn't even have a godhead. Seems to me like you're quibbling over sematics, metephores and figures of speech as if they somehow prove something and they don't. You're pretty much still overthinking it. Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That's it. Don't make it any more complicated by going off on irrelevant tangents.
EOC Post #49
I still can’t see the light.
Atheism
Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it.
Well, where the heck are we now?
I do not have belief in any god, so I am an “Atheist", right.
But I do not deny there is a god. I know for fact there is a god, because man created god.
Then you got -
The fastest growing religion in America today is Pentecostal. They now claim 200,000,000 members and they think that god gave them the ability to speak in tongues.
Note, by the way, I do not believe they have 200M members.
I do believe that god is real in their lives, yes the god that mankind created.
So my thinking is in line with Dr. Terence Meaden’s who says by accepting today’s definition of “Atheist" , like the one in The Oxford English Dictionary, you are in fact presupposing that ‘God’ exists.
Just like when you EOC make the statement;
Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it.
You are in fact presupposing the “God" exists.
Is that what you really want to do? Admit that there is a real god, but your just a non-believer.
[ so not to confuses the matter, God in the OED is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe, which when I say I know there is a god, it is not the Creator, I believe god reaches no further than in mankind’s mind. Like Star wars is in mankind’s mind.]
Dr. Terence Meaden says it would be better if “Atheist" was defined the following way.
“The supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe.”
And that my friends would also solve the problem with my way of thinking too.
FYI - The CIA says atheists are 2% of the world’s population.
Sorry Mike Yohe, but you’re still flat out wrong and overthinking the problem. You’re looking for complexities and nuances which are either irrelevant, or do not exist.
EOC Post #49 I still can’t see the light. Atheism Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it. Well, where the heck are we now? I do not have belief in any god, so I am an “Atheist", right. But I do not deny there is a god. I know for fact there is a god, because man created god. Then you got - The fastest growing religion in America today is Pentecostal. They now claim 200,000,000 members and they think that god gave them the ability to speak in tongues. Note, by the way, I do not believe they have 200M members. I do believe that god is real in their lives, yes the god that mankind created. So my thinking is in line with Dr. Terence Meaden’s who says by accepting today’s definition of “Atheist" , like the one in The Oxford English Dictionary, you are in fact presupposing that ‘God’ exists. Just like when you EOC make the statement; Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it. You are in fact presupposing the “God" exists. Is that what you really want to do? Admit that there is a real god, but your just a non-believer. [ so not to confuses the matter, God in the OED is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe, which when I say I know there is a god, it is not the Creator, I believe god reaches no further than in mankind’s mind. Like Star wars is in mankind’s mind.] Dr. Terence Meaden says it would be better if “Atheist" was defined the following way. "The supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe." And that my friends would also solve the problem with my way of thinking too. FYI - The CIA says atheists are 2% of the world’s population.Atheists have demonstrated generally greater knowledge of Abrahamic Scripture than most Theists.
Atheists have demonstrated generally greater knowledge of Abrahamic Scripture than most Theists.Did you see this too? http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0105/Are-you-smarter-than-an-atheist-A-religious-quiz/When-does-the-Jewish-Sabbath-begin I was going to post this as a topic after I took the quiz, as my score was going to be much higher than the average atheist/agnostic. :) But the site and formatting for the quiz was so unwieldy, that i could never get to the end of the quiz. It kept locking up before I could finish.
I do not have belief in any god, so I am an “Atheist", right. But I do not deny there is a god. I know for fact there is a god, because man created god.This is nonsense.
Just like when you EOC make the statement; Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it. You are in fact presupposing the “God" exists. Is that what you really want to do? Admit that there is a real god, but your just a non-believer. [ so not to confuses the matter, God in the OED is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe, which when I say I know there is a god, it is not the Creator, I believe god reaches no further than in mankind’s mind. Like Star wars is in mankind’s mind.] Dr. Terence Meaden says it would be better if “Atheist" was defined the following way. "The supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe."Your wordplay is not going to inspire anyone here.
Speaking of Terence Meaden, I googled him, and eventually found this:
http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/originsuniverselifehumankindanddarwin/forum/topics/goddidnotdoit-versus-godism-and-fantasy-beliefs-atheist-sees
Pretty funny. I guess I should pay more attention to my toast.
Mid atlantic Post #55
Your wordplay is not going to inspire anyone here.
Now let’s put that to the test.
Concentrate on the subject matter of the sentence which is “God".
The quote - Atheism is a lack of belief in any god.
The result - You are in fact presupposing the “God" exists.
Test 1. – Subject matter money.
The quote - Atheism is a lack of belief in any money.
Definition - You are in fact presupposing the “money" exists.
The result – TRUE - Everyone thinks the subject matter exists
The thinking by believers – money exists, they believe in it.
The thinking by Atheist – money exists, just don’t have any belief in money.
Key Point – The two sides view of the subject matter the same.
Test 2. - Subject matter Bigfoot.
The quote - Atheism is a lack of belief in Bigfoot.
Definition - You are in fact presupposing the “bigfoot" exists.
The result – FALSE - Everyone does not think Bigfoot exists. The two sides disagree.
The thinking by believers – Bigfoot exists your just a non-believer.
The thinking by non-believers – Bigfoot never existed.
Key Point - The two sides view the subject matter differently.
Do you see the thought?
Say Atheist on this forum and everyone knows exactly what you mean. You believe there is no God.
Do the same thing on a Christian forum and everyone knows exactly what you mean. You believe there is a God, you’re just a non-believer in God. And you are just having trouble seeing the light (belief in god).
In other words, the subject matter must be clear to both sides for the meaning to be the same to both sides.
Go to the website in TimB post and read what Dr. Terence Meaden says, he has a much better way with words than I do.
So how did the definition that we use end up in the dictionary?
When the definition of Atheist was established, it was done at a time when it was accepted by everyone that God existed. And those atheists are just non-believers in a god that does exist.
Today the number of atheists is much higher.
The CIA said in 2010 the atheists are now 2% of the world’s population.
Maybe the meaning needs updated.
I don’t get how saying you don’t believe in something, presupposes that it exists.