[quote=“mikeyohe, post:703, topic:7916”]
Trump lowered the taxes for everyone. And the economy turned around.
What are you talking about ? Trump turned the economy around? He inherited an economy that was turned around by Obama from an economic disaster left by Bush.
Trump merely rode on Obama’s coattails. Trump was very good at that, you know ; taking credit for someone else’s success.
Obama’s 2009 Recovery Act Kicked Off Over 10 Years Of Economic Growth
Feb 17, 2020
And that from Forbes, a conservative business news organization.
Obama’s 2009 recover act was a good thing. Obama did a good job getting it started. Where he failed was in the taxing and regulations. It started off great but by the time Trump came along it was bogged down in over regulations. It was so bad that many of the top paying jobs were moved overseas. The money was poured out and the hamburger joints were hiring. But companies were moving overseas with the good high paying jobs.
For every new regulation Trump got rid of 16 regulations. The companies started coming back and the economy grew. So, no, Trump was not riding Obama’s coat tails.
Obama did not understand business like Trump. Remember the Solyndra scandal, $535M and bankrupt. The battery maker who got a $249M taxpayer grant and then filed for bankruptcy. Abound Solar got $400M and declared bankruptcy. Beacon Power go $43M and went bankrupt. Ener1 got $118M & bankrupted. Then the Ivanpah project $1.6B who also want taxpayers to grant $539M more today.
Talking about 18B just for solar projects.
The news was against Trump. So, you got to go by the history. The news did not see anything wrong with all these bankruptcies. But if Trump had one fail, the world would have been coming to an end.
Just look at Biden, he changed a lot of Trump’s work and what mess we have today.
Let me explain why I think Obama did a great thing. The way the economy works. We used to have depressions and recessions. Those really hurt the people and helped the big bankers. It got so bad that we had to create the welfare system. The welfare system was not good for the country either. So, we divided the nation into seven economy zones. When any one of the zones was heading into a recession we would give a military grant in that zone. Between the welfare system and the military spending we started the cold war with all these stupid military project that didn’t work. They were meant to get the people working. And if we did end up with a plane or two that was good too. We had to use the military because building a road or dam would take years of paperwork. Too many regulations.
Obama wanted to change the world and stop many of the wars. So, he went about changing the economy system. He thought instead of military projects. We should have private sector projects. The idea is that like the military projects. The goal was to get paychecks to the people. So, if the projects failed, the overall goal was achieved by getting paychecks to people.
Looking at the energy projects. They were building factories in the worst places. That was because of the zones. The big military companies have seven plants. So, they can bid in each zone.
Point being the country was hurting when Obama took over. Those zones getting stimulus fund did create a lot of jobs. The key is when the taxpayer money is gone. Are the jobs still there? In the military projects when the money is all used up. The workers are laid off.
So, to me, changing the system was Obama’s greatest achievement. And Trump helped move the system forward. So, Trump should have some credit too.
Trump picked up the projects and help the companies stay in America. Trump knew companies getting grants and moving overseas did not help the American workers. To Trump it was not just dumping funds on projects. It was setting up a working environment.
The downside of dumping a more money is that we end up with inflation. Get ready you are about to experience a decade of high inflation. Expect to see everything double today’s prices in the next decade. Expect those who can, to move overseas for cheaper costs of living.
Should add. That is why I believe they have always gotten the computer models way to hot. They can not make the math fit the temperatures. When the predictions first came out the earth was on a tipping point of Co2 heat. Once we got passed a certain temperature it was runaway heating. In twenty-years that type of heating affect has not taken place as predicted.
If the greenhouse gasses hit 2,000 ppm. It does not mean anything without temperature. As what happened in the snowball earth of the past. The temperature must be in the formula too. Because as the snowball earth showed us the Co2 can be high, but with sub-freezing temperatures there is no proton stripping being done by H2o, the main greenhouse gas. The greenhouse gasses acting as the drivers will not work without matching the solar cycles.
Why does the earth take 90K years to cool and only 10K years to warm?
Based on his calculations, in 1941 Milankovitch postulated that insolation in the summer characterises the ice and warm periods at sixty-five degrees north, a theory that was rejected by the science community during his lifetime. From the 1970s, however, it gradually became clearer that it essentially coincides with the climate archives in marine sediments and ice cores. Nowadays, Milankovitch’s theory is widely accepted.
Where does the Co2 fit in the Milankovitch cycles?
Where does the Co2 fit in the Milankovitch cycles?
A much better question is;
Hopw does human contribution of CO2 fit into the Milankovich cycle?
Human activities
Human activities—mostly burning of coal and other fossil fuels, but also cement production, deforestation and other landscape changes—emitted roughly 40 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide in 2015. Since the start of the Industrial Revolution, more than 2,000 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide have been added to the atmosphere by human activities according to the [Global Carbon Project.]
This is how a fraud would misrepresent the process, the findings and today’s understanding.
The past 60 years have been about accumulating evidence and increasing the resolution on our understanding. Returning to the same article.
“There must have been some kind of influence or event during the period afterwards for it to continue to be relatively cold. There was a lot of volcanism during the Little Ice Age and three or four periods with less solar radiation. So it is not necessarily just the one incident that can explain everything, of course,” Miles said.
During the Little Ice Age, global temperatures dropped by about 0.5 degrees C. But it was not the same everywhere. …"
Yes. Earth’s average surface air temperature has increased by about 1 °C (1.8 °F) since 1900, with over half of the increase occurring since the mid-1970s [Figure 1a]. A wide range of other observations (such as reduced Arctic sea ice extent and increased ocean heat content) and indications from the natural world (such as poleward shifts of temperature-sensitive species of fish, mammals, insects, etc.) together provide incontrovertible evidence of planetary-scale warming. …
Of course, it’s Earth systems, and many factors add their weight. Ironically during this period evidence is indicating that human actions did lead to cascading consequences that actually may have contributed by lowering our atmosphere’s CO2 emission thanks to reforestation of North America - this notion continues gaining evidence as another contributing factor during the Medieval Temperature Anomalies.
Of course, it’s Earth systems, and many factors add their weight. Ironically during this period evidence is indicating that human actions did lead to cascading consequences that actually may have contributed by lowering our atmosphere’s CO2 emission thanks to reforestation of North America - this notion continues gaining evidence as another contributing factor during the Medieval Temperature Anomalies.
If we want to speed up this process, plant Industrial Hemp!!! It grows a lot faster than trees.
Here we have another example of Mike Yohe’s base dishonesty, a liar honing his craft, with deception upon disingenuous deception.
No scientist disputes that H2O is a potent greenhouse gas. What Yohe refuses to acknowledge, or even learn about is the why we make a big deal out of CO2.
Water vapor precipitates out of the air within a week, that good ol hydrologic cycle that makes life possible. Whereas I hear CO2 residency time is on the order of 50-200 years.
… This is a common misconception in the debate over greenhouse gases and the causes of global warming. Both water vapor and carbon dioxide are important greenhouse gases that play a crucial role in atmospheric warming. …
Water vapor accounts for 60-70% of the greenhouse effect while CO2 accounts for 25% —a notable difference when numbers alone are compared. It would seem then that water vapor should be climatologists’ primary focus.
However, water vapor cannot be controlled by human intervention; it is simply a product of its environment. …
Absorption of LW radiation increases approximately with the logarithm of water vapour concentration, while the Clausius-Clapeyron equation dictates a near-exponential increase in moisture-holding capacity with temperature. Since tropospheric and surface temperatures are closely coupled (see Section 3.4.1), these constraints predict a strongly positive water vapour feedback if relative humidity (RH) is close to unchanged.
Furthermore, the combined water vapour-lapse rate feedback is relatively insensitive to changes in lapse rate for unchanged RH (Cess, 1975) due to the compensating effects of water vapour and temperature on the OLR (outgoing long-wave radiation) (see Box 8.1).
Understanding processes determining the distribution and variability in RH is therefore central to understanding of the water vapour-lapse rate feedback.
To a first approximation, GCM (general circulation model) simulations indeed maintain a roughly unchanged distribution of RH under greenhouse gas forcing. More precisely, a small but widespread RH decrease in GCM simulations typically reduces feedback strength slightly compared with a constant RH response (Colman, 2004; Soden and Held, 2006; Figure 8.14).
To say the scientists haven’t worked damned hard to learn about ALL the gases in our atmosphere, especial water vapor is another damnable lie,
that ought to buy the slob some jail time, let him stew on his sins against mankind a while.
Vandalize a lousy building get’s one jail time, why shouldn’t malicious intellectual vandalism with such horrendous outcomes at the end of it, deserve a bit of real world punishment?
It’s not about opinion or Free Speech - screaming FIRE in a theater is another example that Free Speech has it’s limits in a sane society - it’s about blatant deliberate malicious fraud against mankind’s right to honestly learn about climate science.
OK, Goldilocks, who is to blame for the town being 10 ft under water?
Show me the proof that Co2 had anything to do with it more than a fingernail thickness of water added to the flooding.
Go back to the snowball earth with high Co2. No effect.
No, let’s not go back but look at current knowledge which clearly indicates that CO2 contributes to global warming. Do you actually read some of the new research?
You can stomp your feet all you want, I will take current “knowledge” over your interpretation of old suppositions anytime.
The total mass of Earth’s hydrosphere is about 1.4 × 10 to the 18th tons, at any given time, about 20 × 10 to the 12th tonnes of this is in the form of water vapor in the Earth’s atmosphere.
A Typical’ fair weather cumulus cloud “weighs” about 1 billion 400 million pounds. That’s a lot of weight! This means that at any given moment, there are millions of pounds of water floating above your head.
1,400,000,000,000,000,000 lbs. of water. Vs. 43,100,000,000 lbs. of Co2
Now H2o can be up to 20 times more effective at removing heat from longwave radiation.
Why is the H2o being buried? What would a chart showing added H2o look like? Because H2o will increase 7% for each degree. The climate change uses the Little Ice Age to compare to. Today we are 3 degrees warmer. 42,000,000,000,000 Lbs. of water should have been added to the atmosphere. The chart would look like your carbon chart only with a tremendous amount more heat being put in the atmosphere.
Note, if H2o is used as climate variability attributable to natural causes. Then all the warming today can be contributed to natural warming except for a small amount from anthropogenic warming that is to small to be measured.
What you call dishonesty is me asking and the willingness to answer questions. For example. Is more Co2 in the air good or bad for mankind and the earth? Yes it is. Better for the plants and more plant growing area. I have never found anything wrong with have food. Animals love food too.
Got that right. So where are all the H2o charts? Why is H2o not added to the greenhouse gas charts? Where are the thousands of reports covering the greenhouse gas H2o? Show me the chart of added H2o for temperature rise. It is like this CC. For million of years the H2o controlled the warmth of the earth’s surface. Scientifically H2o would be the datum line for the study of climate change. If we really wanted to measure the effects of Co2 we would measure from the H2o datum point.
Oh, I know. It is political. Or why would you let the scientists look like they are working in the movie Idiocracy? The Manhattan project took 3 years. To put a man on the moon took less than 10 years. How many years to save the earth? Where are the debates? The debates should be in the news taking place weekly if this was really about saving the earth. Even Trump could not get the scientists to debate. Why is the IPCC policy making rules designed to cover poverty? And why can’t the scientists do math? Yet, climate change is a really big issue politically.
The H2o is cycled. That is correct. When it cycles, it removes Co2 from the air. Hey, glad to see you are off the 1,000-year Co2 life cycle. I am down to the 50 years myself.
Now the 60-70% greenhouse effect is not the affect I see. I would say the effect is closer to 95% when it comes to stripping heat from the longwave lengths of all the greenhouse gasses. We are still about eight years away from the scientists building the base datum points for clouds. They do not seem to be in any hurry. If they don’t get it done this decade, there is always next decade. And as long as they keep the fear in the people they can have all the time in the world to get things done.
The total mass of Earth’s hydrosphere is about 1.4 × 10 to the 18th tons, at any given time, about 20 × 10 to the 12th tonnes of this is in the form of water vapor in the Earth’s atmosphere.
A Typical’ fair weather cumulus cloud “weighs” about 1 billion 400 million pounds. That’s a lot of weight! This means that at any given moment, there are millions of pounds of water floating above your head.
1,400,000,000,000,000,000 lbs. of water. Vs. 43,100,000,000 lbs. of Co2
Now H2o can be up to 20 times more effective at removing heat from long wave radiation.
Human activities—mostly burning of coal and other fossil fuels, but also cement production, deforestation and other landscape changes—emitted roughly 40 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide in 2015. Since the start of the Industrial Revolution, more than 2,000 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide have been added to the atmosphere by human activities according to the [Global Carbon Project.]
You just keep avoiding the problem. It has nothing to do with removing heat from the upper atmosphere.
It has to do with trapping heat beneath the lower atmosphere!
The “greenhouse effect”
Does CO2 rise or sink?
If left undisturbed, CO2 does sink lower to the ground than oxygen , although they both form separate exponential profiles (it’s not like the bottom half of a volume is 100% CO2 while the top half is 100% oxygen - they both have distributions that tail off exponentially with height - it’s just that the CO2 /oxygen …
Carbon dioxide is not heavier than oxygen or water vapor, but it is denser than those gases Table 1 shows that, depending on molar mass, gas density changes significantly with water vapor, with methane and hydrogen being less dense than air, while carbon dioxide and radon are much denser.
I did not say Co2 did not contribute to global warming. What I said was the amount it contributes is to small to be measured.
It is like a sponge. One side of the sponge gets all the dirt. So, it does not matter how thick the sponge is if most of the dirt is gotten on one side. The warming blanket works the same way with the long waves. The sunlight can go through the blanket hit the earth and be turned into long wavelengths. Then the protons can be stripped going back through the blanket on the way to space. The side of the blanket next to the earth will take away most of the protons. But is it the Co2 in the blanket or the H2o removing most of the protons. How much is the upper part of the blanket doing on proton removal?
If you got it measured please give me the number. So far all I have seen is consensus. Which is not science.
Of course, there are thousands of reports showing how and how much Co2 works in climate change. And many of those numbers have been put into computer models and out the 20 models, cannot get 3 models to match.
It’s like the salt in the oceans. And you are trying to measure the affect of salt on the temperature. When you should be measuring the water.
It is not that hard. Measure the affect of salt with water. Then you can know how the salt is affecting the temperature.
So, why are they not measuring the affect of water in the air and then showing the affect of the Co2? The scientists know this. But the scientists do not control what gets put into the computer models. All they can do is put in the data set that they are told to. They can build all the data sets they want but that does not mean they will be used. The climate science is being controlled by the money out of the swamp.
When it comes to science the Russian Aeolus climate model is working on wind, temperature, pressure, and humidity. I mean they are even getting into atmospheric gravity waves.
I did not say Co2 did not contribute to global warming. What I said was the amount it contributes is to small to be measured.
What are you talking about? Too small to be measured? Reams and reams of measured statistics and a conclusion that the measured data indicates an anthropocene global warming.
And you say the contribution CO2 makes to GW is to small to be measured?
> Extraordinary human energy consumption and resultant geological impacts beginning around 1950 CE initiated the proposed Anthropocene Epoch
Jaia Syvitski, Colin N. Waters, John Day, John D. Milliman, Colin Summerhayes, Will Steffen, Jan Zalasiewicz, Alejandro Cearreta, Agnieszka Gałuszka, Irka Hajdas, Martin J. Head, Reinhold Leinfelder, J. R. McNeill, Clément Poirier, Neil L. Rose, William Shotyk, Michael Wagreich & Mark Williams
Growth in fundamental drivers—energy use, economic productivity and population—can provide quantitative indications of the proposed boundary between the Holocene Epoch and the Anthropocene. Human energy expenditure in the Anthropocene, ~22 zetajoules (ZJ), exceeds that across the prior 11,700 years of the Holocene (~14.6 ZJ), largely through combustion of fossil fuels.
The global warming effect during the Anthropocene is more than an order of magnitude greater still. Global human population, their productivity and energy consumption, and most changes impacting the global environment, are highly correlated.
This extraordinary outburst of consumption and productivity demonstrates how the Earth System has departed from its Holocene state since ~1950 CE, forcing abrupt physical, chemical and biological changes to the Earth’s stratigraphic record that can be used to justify the proposal for naming a new epoch—the Anthropocene.
If none of this is man-made or human-caused, what do you suggest? Do nothing, because man has no influence on the environment?
Just sit back and watch the world become uninhabitable to man?
How typical…! Deny, deny, deny, until things fall apart, and then blame everyone else for not acting . By not acknowledging the problem, you are contributing to it.
Regarding the malicious liar Mike Yohe, I can’t deal with his bs right now. His writings are a font of deliberate deception and misrepresentation of facts woven together by stupidity and disregard for experts, stuff that a little critical thinking and homework can easily expose.
What can be said to a clown who remains so paranoid (or is it simply tactical and cynical), that he needs to portray the political left, environmentalists and scientists as though we were all cartoon enemies. The contrived melodrama was/is absurd, but it’s also been very profitable to a certain class of people and very destructive for our living condition as the next decade will make ever so clear to every person left standing.
September 4, 2021 at 1:35 p.m. EDT - Washington Post
Nearly 1 in 3 Americans live in a county hit by a weather disaster in the past three months, according to a new Washington Post analysis of federal disaster declarations. On top of that, 64 percent live in places that experienced a multiday heat wave — phenomena that are not officially deemed disasters but are considered the most dangerous form of extreme weather.
The expanding reach of climate-fueled disasters, a trend that has been increasing at least since 2018, shows the extent to which a warming planet has already transformed Americans’ lives. At least 388 people in the United States have died due to hurricanes, floods, heat waves and wildfires since June, according to media reports and government records.
We are a vast interconnected society, a cross dependent society, the cascading consequences of this summer will be significant. With no let up. Now it gets serious, and the fool doesn’t have a clue. What makes him so hateful to me is how many people he and his type helped misled (brainwash even) into confusion and apathy about something so immensely important. Our Earth’s climate regime and its landscapes, it’s biodiversity, the biosphere.
A blast from the past. It’s simple physics. WE KNEW !
The details and dates don’t matter that much. It’s the fundamental breakdown of weather as we knew it and It’s impact upon society. A story meant as a warning that we were playing with these outcomes. Now we get to watch them unfold on the screen, until they catch up to us.
Using “virtual reality” computer simulations, social journalist James Burke traces the Earth’s history of ice ages and warming trends, and presents several possible scenarios caused by the greenhouse effect during the 1990s to 2050. The video release consists of two parts, “The Fatal Flower” and “Secret of the Deep”.
While the keyboard non scientist warriors debate settled science, climate change activism marches on XR debrief
(pics at link)
Rebel Daily 8: Are you up for a rest?
September 07, 2021 by Extinction Rebellion
Recap on how the final two days of the Impossible Rebellion went down. We did impossibly well.
Gecko costume at March for Nature
We did it. After two heart-warming, audacious, thrilling weeks, the Impossible Rebellion ended on Saturday.
We’ve seen some unforgettable moments. We’ve brought junctions at Tower Bridge, London Bridge, Cambridge Circus, Cromwell Road, Long Acre and Covent Garden to a standstill. We replaced these places’ endless urban grind with our urgent message, displaying once again how facing up to ecocide can be scary and sad and inconvenient, but how it can also create the space for colour and joy and togetherness.
And for all their special magic and intensity, these loving occupations were just one species of action on the loose in our disruptive ecosystem. Police used massive numbers, dubious procedure and sometimes outright violence to move us on, but this week we showed we’ve really learned to ‘be like water’.
Occupations repeatedly turned into marches (and marches into occupations!); we’ve seen localised blockades of banks and government departments, marches, rallies, carnivals, fasting, feed-ins, die-ins, sleep-overs in both McDonalds and the Natural History Museum, an occupation of St Paul’s, and exciting new heights of mobilisation by Digital Rebellion.
We are a movement
No description could hope to capture it all. Not just the events but the moments: the lives that were changed, the assumptions challenged, the friendships made. And not just the moments but the actions: the showing up and sometimes thankless (sometimes joyful) taking-part of stewards, litter-pickers, food-providers, infrastructure-sorters, banner-makers, leafletters, de-escalators, arrestee-supporters, and those even less visible than this working on laptops in so many places and ways.
It’s this quiet heroism – along with that seen in the 500 arrests made in these two weeks – which makes XR what it is: not just an organisation, but a movement.
As thousands reel from Hurricane Ida, and billions deal with drought’s effects on food prices (including millions of Afghans), it’s clear we’re at a pivotal moment in ecological and climate action. And with the next COP getting close both in space and time, it’s a good time to hear everyone from Sky News to LBC to senior government advisers (their scientists were there already) acknowledging that what we’re doing works. Those in power might act fast enough or they might not – but whatever happens, we will know that we did all we could.
Rebel, Rest, Do it again
Real action needs real rest. Whatever part you’ve played in this latest wave, we hope you’re now able to sleep and play and reconnect as much as you need. This might not be as easy as it sounds – for tips, check out our practical guide for coming down to earth. If you feel you could benefit from emotional support, check out the Trained Emotional Support Network. If you’ve lost something, check out the Lost and Found. And if you’d like to take part in our process of collective reflection, please fill in our post-rebellion survey.
The rebellion does not end here. To find your nearest local group, see here. To see how you can help get ready for Glasgow’s COP26, see here. For a super great video of the last two weeks, see here. And for everything else, read on.
Until next time.
Action Highlights
A Closing March for Nature
5 AUG Trafalgar Square to Hyde Park
A sign ‘What are you going to do about it?’
XR joined together with our sister movements in a jubilant March for Nature on the last day of this phase of rebellion. After speeches at Trafalgar Square, rebels flooded out with gusto to stomp our feet and dance on behalf of all Life. The energy was lively and had a carnival-like feel, with spectacular floats and music buoying our spirits, even as we lamented the close of such a precious time together.
Well hello smilie, been a while.
So is that a copy and paste, or did you attend?
Do you think my showing up would have helped?
I’m flattered.
Keep up the good work Tex.
