Cannabis and religion

“Many” still doesn’t mean “most” as you imply, that’s a technicality, and skin color is not chosen, immorality is

Yes, of course

You just agreed that morallity has nothing to do with a belief God. You fool.

How? Why is it everythingor nothing with you, now that’s the thinking of a fool and a child, people who believe in God, really believe,might commit immoral acts but they know they are wrong and will try not to do them, if they keep on commting them willingly then they are not really religious, I’m sure yo can understand that. When there is no belief in God, people tend to care a whole lot less about immorality than people who really are religious, it is so plain and simple that even an infant could understand it

Hmm.

I suggest the problem is one of vague inference from the wording.

This

[many of them could care less and have no moral values precisely because they don’t believe in God]
Seems different from this
>Atheists aren't members of organized religions with certain prohibitions, so they don't have those limitations.<
That's not good phrasing; forgive me, I just woke up and am on my way out, so my brain isn't at full capacity. How can I explain?

When you say, many of them could care less and have no moral values precisely because they don’t believe in God, it rings false to me because it sounds like what theists think of atheists, not what most atheists think about themselves.

Lee Stroebel is a famous Christian apologist who claims he was once a hard atheist but became a born-again Christian. He wrote:

》"For much of my life I was a skeptic. In fact, I considered myself an atheist. Sure, I could see some gaps and inconsistencies, but I had a strong motivation to ignore them: a self-serving and immoral lifestyle that I would be compelled to abandon if I were ever to change my views and become a follower of Jesus."《
Many readers (myself included) called BS. It's POSSIBLE he thought like this (anything's POSSIBLE), but most atheists' thought process doesn't go, "There is no God, so I'll do X!"

Let me put it this way:

Suppose most religions prohibited wearing red, because it was the color of Satan.

But atheists could wear red, because they had no prohibition against it.

If someone’s beliefs don’t prohibit them from something, that’s different from wholesale nihilism that says, “Fuck it! There is no God, so nothing matters! I don’t care!!”

Does that make sense?

 

 

Morals predate religion and are expressed in the animal kingdom. The golden rule is universal.

More or less, not this part:“rings false to me because it sounds like what theists think of atheists, not what most atheists think about themselves” so I would have to think about atheists the same way as think about themselves Not tohurt their feelings?

I don’t know, a color is not the same as an immoral act and morality is a social construct that was born out of religion.

It’s been psychologically proven, it’s even been tested without involving religion, if there are no repercussions (hell in the case of religion) people tend to care less about their actions and how they affect others, that’s all I’m saying

One thing is being sentient, another moral, some animals might keep a single partner for life, or protect their offspring against everything but that is not morality, if to be judged, which wouldn’t make sense, animals are extremely immoral: killing newborns, being promiscuous, stealing, cannibalism, rape that’s not very moral of you ask me, but they aren’t as intelligent as us nor they have a guide

420,

It doesn’t seem like you’ve given this much thought. That’s fine, most people don’t. This forum and CFI in general is a good place to get information. Mainly, morality and belief in gods are not related in the way you are talking about them. If that is your experience, then your experience is extremely limited, so you shouldn’t base your opinion just on that. If you have indeed researched this, please show us that.

Also, don’t get hooked in too much by Player. He will argue strongly for something, but he never supplies a good reference, or data, or logic.

Most important, there is no such thing as “really religious”. If you know what it takes to be a true religious person, please show us how you know that and what it is. I’d love to meet some of these people who read a book that includes genocide and misogyny and used that to become moral upstanding members of a modern society.

It’s been psychologically proven
When? Where? Repercussions for me, an atheist, are if I work to keep my community safe, I will be safer. If I contribute to a society that takes care of people, I will be taken care of. I don’t need a god for that. I have heard of studies where if there is a picture of a godly looking person on the wall and a wallet with cash in it on the table, people are less likely to take the money. Maybe you are confusing your studies with those.
killing newborns, being promiscuous, stealing, cannibalism, rape that’s not very moral of you ask me
Other than the cannibalism, all of those are in the bible. King David was promiscuous.

“Also, don’t get hooked in too much by Player. He will argue strongly for something, but he never supplies a good reference, or data, or logic”

Can you find any of these things in Lausten’s post above??

Right, so you belief in the scientifical impossibility that nothing created everything, I think it is you who hasn’t given much thought about it, and you could provide evidence as well but we are not gonna do each other’s homework am I right? so according to you you should base your opinion on mine too, excellent be a nice person, but if you break the law even if you don’t believe in it because it doesn’t fit your lifestyle you still have to pay, and those laws you abide were created based on a set of moral constructions that came from religion

And they were sins! Congrats!

Laws were not created by religion. That’s your assertion, so you back it up.

Lawrence Krauss can explain where the universe might have come from better me, so I’ll pass on that.

As for studies about how groups support morality, this guy is really good. This link has an interview and a bunch of his studies listed at the bottom. You can contact him via this website, lookup those studies, or whatever you want.

“Also, don’t get hooked in too much by Player. He will argue strongly for something, but he never supplies a good reference, or data, or logic”

Can you find any of these things in Lausten’s post above??


Lausten regularly provides these.

“Also, don’t get hooked in too much by Player. He will argue strongly for something, but he never supplies a good reference, or data, or logic”

Can you find any of these things in Lausten’s post above??


Lausten regularly provides these.

I need to stop here for a while as I need to leave. But, quickly:

More or less, not this part:”rings false to me because it sounds like what theists think of atheists, not what most atheists think about themselves” so I would have to think about atheists the same way as think about themselves Not tohurt their feelings?
No. This has nothing to do with our feelings. It's simply incorrect. It would be like saying, "All Asians are good at math." This is a stereotype, and many Asians suck at math. If an Asian person were to correct you, it isn't because you hurt his feelings, but because what you said isn't true.
I don’t know, a color is not the same as an immoral act and morality is a social construct that was born out of religion.
If you really study the history of religion, as well as anthropology, psychology, sociology etc., you will see the problem with this. Human beings evolved with certain group understandings. Certain behaviors everywhere were problems for a group and were discouraged. Those things became part of religions, not the reverse.
It’s been psychologically proven, it’s even been tested without involving religion, if there are no repercussions (hell in the case of religion) people tend to care less about their actions and how they affect others, that’s all I’m saying
I understand what you are trying to say, I think, but you have either looked at studies done within certain religious frameworks, or you have misunderstood the studies.

It is true that if atheists don’t fear RELIGIOUS repercussions, they may engage in certain acts that certain religions forbid. Eating meat, sex outside of marriage, etc.

But atheists fear OTHER repercussions as much as anyone. Legal, family, society.

In fact, those are the repercussions most people fear, atheist or not.

Take “promiscuity.” How do you define that? Three partners in a lifetime? Five? Fifty?

The fact is, Christians have sex out of marriage at about the same rate atheists do. (And Evangelicals divorce at a much higher rate than atheists. Several studies confirm.)

Most people, atheist or not, keep certain boundaries around sex for social and group reasons. They don’t want to make people mad, hurt people, get diseases, etc.

 

killing newborns, being promiscuous, stealing, cannibalism, rape that’s not very moral of you ask me, but they aren’t as intelligent as us nor they have a guide
If you look at the 10 Commandments, six of them only apply to Jews and Christians and only 1 (murder) is actually in US law.

“Rape” is no problem Biblically, because consent is mentioned nowhere. Sex slaves, etc, were fine in the OT. Within marriage, a woman must submit so you can rape within marriage.

 

Gotta go

What are you saying about Asians? we were talking about how atheists see themselves, that’s a perspective not a fact, and non atheists have theirs.

The same history you read is the same that says an explosion, a synonym of devastation and destruction, created the earth and everything in it with such perfection, even human DNA, AKA the book of Life. A book that wrote itself, that’s swell

I can see this is a waste of time for everyone involved, so go ahead, keep believing nothing created everything, that’s all you will ever have, no matter how much you want to rationalize it

I have to go too, so peace be with you, I truly mean it

420, “you assert that morality is a social construct born out of religion”. This, I suggest is a personal assumption of yours.

It could be, instead that morality is a social construct born out of our social nature. Highly social animals, afaik, don’t have religion, but some have morals.

https://www.livescience.com/24800-animals-emotions-morality.html

And, 420, I still take exception to your stereotyping atheists as tending to be immoral.

You said “…many of them could care less and have no moral values precisely because they don’t believe in God…”.

Would you take exception if I said “Many pot users could care less and have no moral values precisely because they use pot.”

I do accept that there are some people (tho I think they are probably a small proportion of the population) who would act out sociopathically if they did not have the fake religious constructs of what their particular religion decides is moral, and the fake construct of repercussions, eg, burning in a everlasting lake of fire, if they don’t abide by the particular religion’s morals. Maybe you are one of these people.

And if u think about it, obviously, even people who are VERY religious sometimes do things that most of us would consider to be extremely immoral. e.g., blowing up random people, killing those who don’t have the same beliefs, abusing children, etc.