Any young people out there? Does Honesty or Science matter?

I’ve been working on a project that I’m trying to form into a

Student Resource regarding Donald Hoffman’s book “The Case Against Reality - Why evolution hid the truth from our eyes.”

With 18 chapters of detailed review of the book and one of his papers, along with a growing list of scientific papers, 10 so far and more to come. I’m making a point of including all the relevant sources I can and,

I have spent literally hundreds of hour searching out sources and reading them and collecting them in order to save certain interested students a lot of time.

… Sort of a CliffNotes with loads of links to authoritative sources.

Working on my latest post I added a post script that got into rambling about the reasons I was so engaged in this project. I kinda like it and since we have so little going on around here, I figured why not share. Especially if it actually catches a young person’s attention.

 

Cheers

 

 

from the post script at Jonathan Cohen: Perceptual representation, veridicality, interface theory

 

What am I trying to accomplished here?

Besides saying my piece while I’m still around?

I want to collect as much supporting evidence as I can and leave behind a repository to serve certain students as an intellectual landscape map for exploring the art of deception through science by rhetoric and misdirection; along with thinking about how we perceive this physical reality we are embedded within.

A collection of resources to help those so inclined to find their own way through the labyrinth of claims and competing information coming at you from every direction. We used to trust our elders to advise younger generations, but my generations have been abject failures with their me first priorities, that turned a blind eye to children, Earth and society’s future.

Today’s younger generations need to figure out your own future. For the most part, all today’s generations of old folks know is, how to consume, and how to rationalize and ignore our sins against humanity and our Earth’s life support system.

I also want to push the importance of personally recognizing and learning to appreciate the Physical Reality ~ Mindscape divide. Seems to me it does a wonderful job of helping an individual resolve that contrived dog chasing tail “body-mind problem.” At least I can’t figure out where the problem is.

 

But then I’m an Earth Centrist, with the solid foundation that a deep appreciation for Evolution affords one.

For instance, I glory in the knowledge of being a creature born out of billions of years worth of this Evolutionary pageant that has unfolded upon our wondrous Earth.

Furthermore, that’s not just a piece of information for me, it’s something that’s taken on a visceral awareness within my mind and body. I feel related to the landscapes and creatures around me and the events unfolding in the time I’ve been blessed with. It makes me care, try to consume less and nurture more.

I don’t agonize over my coming death and the end of my mind, or my soul, or heaven or hell, or who someone wants to be, or sleep with, or how someone wants to worship the mysteries. Faith, religion, is reflected in how we live our lives and how we treat others, not in press clippings, and profits. Besides religions are elements of our human Mindscapes, outside of the Physical Reality that created us and that we exist within.

Look around, we can’t escape the physical reality of Earth and her biosphere and the fact of 2021 and all Earth’s vital signs trending in wrong directions because of self-serving humanity’s collective disregard for nature. Our life support system.

There will be a reckonings and it will be ugly, when the systems we thought we could rely on aren’t going to be able to be there, then the breakdowns will cascade in a chaotic mess and most of us won’t find ourselves at the other end of those tough times. Ugly, but physical reality is what it is, no matter how many fantasies people paper it over with. We brought this upon our future. Then the dust will settle and survivors will carry on in their brave new world, same as it ever was.

The only ones that have a chance to ride out the coming storms will need to be ‘physical reality smart’, (no more fantasizing for fun and profit), science smart and have a solid humanist spiritual core. An inner strength that can only come from an intimate understanding of Earth’s pageant of deep time, the dance of geology~biology that over billions of years, unfurling one day at a time, created a planet with a biosphere and creatures like none other.

 

Seeking mystical experiences? Look no further than learning to comprehend Earth’s Evolution unfolding over deep time.

The ancients and their books were great for their time and place, but this is now, and science holds the key to learning further important secret’s of our human condition.

Speaking of mystical, poetically speaking: You are star dust and the most exquisite example of god’s need and desire to know itself.

Deeper understanding is an emergent sort of thing, a reward for honestly doing our homework and learning the lessons life and our biosphere has to teach us. A lot of it is personal observation, but that’s useless by itself. It must be supplemented with information exchange and knowledge that only a global community of dedicated, educated, competitive scientists and their support staffs, and serious students can provide. For those willing to do the homework.
Years become decades in a hurry. (The long view, getting into the nitty gritty, because I'm tired of waiting. :-) )

 

Only those people who are passionately curious and dedicated to understanding Earth, her biosphere, and her ways and means honesty will possess the tools and inner solidity for making their particular situation work out. After all, our new, ever increasingly hotter climate regime, we ourselves are pushing Earth into, will impact regions radically differently. Globalism will be out, but survival won’t be.

Tragic part is that Earth’s Global Heat and Moisture Distribution Engine has a massive amount of momentum within it. I’ve been eye witness to watching that engine gaining momentum, signs have been everywhere. This past half century a stable global climate system, has been energized faster than anything other than a comet impact. The consequences are on the news every night.

It’s really terrifying if you have any sense for it, along with an appreciation for the flow of time. We’re in the prelude of changes that will take millennia to fully unfold, powering down was the only sane thing to do, but that was then, and this is now.

Which brings me back to why I feel such personal umbrage at Hoffman’s “Case Against Reality” that I’m sticking with this project. It’s contrived nonsense for fun and profit.

Huge swaths of academia take it and themselves way the hell too seriously. I mean, spending who knows how much treasure and brain power and all the while these same humans and scientists / mathematicians / philosophers act totally oblivious to the truly existentially self destructive behavior humans keep doubling down on. It’s unfathomable for me. As though we have all the time in the world, like nothing is happening outside their ivory towers.

Can you understand how that might anger a simple working family man who appreciates that our biosphere and weather patterns are our life support system and they are being wantonly broken. While the smartest minds around are getting lost within their self-serving Mindscapes and being blind to the Physical Reality our existence depends on.

That’s why this is intended for students, and for encouraging some serious critical thinking.

citizenschallenge

Wow. That’s huge. The textbook industry is tough though. I heard it has improved with more electronic access, but then I’ve also heard that you still have get through the Texas School Board.

hahaha.

Underground baby.

You wouldn’t understand. You’re too old.

Not that you’re still not my best pal, just say’n.

xo :slight_smile:

 

 

First law of thermodynamics: you don’t get something for nothing. Second law: you never break even. There is no way to get more out of a system than was put into it. There is no way to get out of a system everything that was put into it.

For critical thinkers: all activity, including all human activity, is not a zero sum game. We always lose, every time. We don’t get our energy or our time back, ever. Anything we can build takes more to construct than can ever be recovered. Destruction is inevitable. At best we may be able to influence the rate of destruction, but not the ultimate result.

First law of thermodynamics: you don’t get something for nothing. Second law: you never break even.
Well, you've just proven that life is impossible.

Congratulations.

It occurred to me, during my latest walk with Maddy,

that another prerequisite for the above (as in @#340232 …) making any sense is an appreciation for natural landscapes and the hours going by.

Knowing what it’s like spending days and nights out of doors and simply being witness to creation unfolding one day at a time. {No not just sitting there, it can be done just as well while doing labor that needs to be done.} Not just landscapes, but the sky, the clouds and weather. How many have actually watched weather unfolding as it moves in and out over the course of a day? Simply observing (while doing chores) observing and absorbing. Folks who have always been confined within cities, are unaware. And for the most part disinterested.

But not all, that’s the sliver I’ve decided to focus on. Early days, long way to go, and foundation building can’t be rushed too much.

clouds and weather, and creatures too . . .

 

?

@ibelieveinlogic

For critical thinkers: all activity, including all human activity, is not a zero sum game. We always lose, every time. We don’t get our energy or our time back, ever. Anything we can build takes more to construct than can ever be recovered. Destruction is inevitable. At best we may be able to influence the rate of destruction, but not the ultimate result.


Thanks for offering a case in point. Notice how ibil’s imagination doesn’t extent beyond human activity?

Of course, that human activity is sucking the life out of Earth’s resources, which took millions and hundreds of millions of years to develop, is true, so I’ll admit ibil does have his hand on one of the octopuses tentacles. It’s the big picture that needs a bit more work.

And in fact, the point he’s trying to make, it’s why back in the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s powering down was the only sane thing to do. Slowing down population growth, increase efficiency in consuming natural resources, learning to build an economy around nurturing the natural resource that supply our life support system. Of course, all that depended on truly and honestly understanding and appreciating our global biosphere and her ways and means, which required truly studying our planet’s pageant of evolution. From there our minds would have made better connections and we people saner choices. Instead, we collectively embraced willful ignoring.

Sad reality is that the runway is pretty much behind us and from here on it’s all about inertia.

Had we collectively acted with a little altruistic forethought, rather than a bunch of rich spoiled frat boys out to party up and burn it down.

Notice how ibil’s imagination doesn’t extent beyond human activity?
And what "beyond human activity" do we have the power to control?
And in fact, the point he’s trying to make, it’s why back in the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, ’90s powering down was the only sane thing to do. Slowing down population growth, increase efficiency in consuming natural resources, learning to build an economy around nurturing the natural resource that supply our life support system
So, Biden's Green New Deal differs in what way other than population control?
And what “beyond human activity” do we have the power to control?
You're missing my point.
For critical thinkers: all activity, including all human activity, is not a zero sum game. We always lose, every time. We don’t get our energy or our time back, ever. Anything we can build takes more to construct than can ever be recovered. Destruction is inevitable. At best we may be able to influence the rate of destruction, but not the ultimate result.
It's the fact that your imagination never takes you beyond the human sphere, that caused me to choke on your quote. Whereas I'm thinking about the global organism and what it's capable of. For instance,

http://physics.gmu.edu/~roerter/EvolutionEntropy.htm

 

As for Biden and his policy, what do you want me to say?

As for population control, it’s not something we can turn a switch on. What would have been feasible with constructive education, instead of brainwashing founded on self-destructive and complete lies, that deluded us into believing Too Much Is Never Enough and that nothing but increasing our own avarice mattered.

I think if people had had a chance to honestly learn about our Earth, what Evolution was all about, and how it created us, there would have been a natural societal appreciation for gently powering down. Less kids back then would have made a huge difference today. But, the runway behind us, does us no good right now.

That question you used as a bludgeon rather than sincere curiosity, simply reveals your lack of appreciation for simple math.

One more time, may I introduce you to Professor Bartlett:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SixwVyx_bp4

 

You can’t green capitalism. Which is all the Green New Deal is an attempt to do.

@missinggirl. Why are you baiting me with this bullshit?

Why not go back to the beginning and get a clue about what I started this thread for.

For instance, you could start with the title, don’t see Biden in there anywhere do you???, don’t see grand policy suggestions anywhere in the OP do you???

It’s about something much more fundamental.

You could take another look at the title of this thread it might give you a hint.

Does Honesty or Science matter?
If you're all about baiting, at least have the dignity and intellect to stick to the topic of my thread.

I was talking about the reality of the need for fundamental change in lifestyle. Covid forced this on us but it nothing compared to what climate change will force us to do

And what “beyond human activity” do we have the power to control?
Control is a sucky word. Most inapplicable.

What we are doing to our Earth has nothing to do with human control and everything to do with human disruption.

Do you know anything about how Earth is insulated from frigid empty space? Have you ever heard of the CO2 cycle? Just for starters, then there’s everything else under the sky.

@missinggirl. I was talking about the reality of the need for fundamental change in lifestyle.
Why didn't you say so?

What are the prerequisites for initiating fundamental change in the attitudes that lead to lifestyle choices?

Some suggestions:

A) Recognize the fundamental difference between your mind and all that unfolds within your thoughts and emotions, what I refer to as our Human Mindscape ~

and the Physical Reality of atoms, molecules, deeptime, the dance between geology and biology, that produced evolution, and all our Earth has ever contained.

B) Honesty learn about that Evolution that unfolded over deep the. Simply the act of absorbing the many wonders that went into creating the creature you are today, triggers emergent understanding.

C). Rededication to respecting honesty, physical facts, fair play, pluralistic principle.


Pull that off and you'll have the elements of a foundation for sane economic interaction with our biosphere, thus a healthier future.

Unfortunately, from my perspective, sure seems like we lost too much runway for those outcomes.  I'd love to be wrong, I'm willing to behave as though it weren't so, hoping I'm wrong, but I can't ignore all I know and now it computes.

 

Cheers and welcome to the forum.   Cc

There’s no denying Democrats are as strapped to our Hollywood fantasy living, and everyone’s expectation of more, more, more, for me.

Our assorted Boob-Tubes has been marvelous money makers and mind friers. Then we lose track of the Earth we depend on.

That’s were the trouble starts.

D) reality

The temporary ‘lifestyle’ changes that have come about as a result of the pandemic are as nothing to those that will have to come about as a result of the effects of climate change and other insults to the natural world due to humanity’s actions.

We can either change our ways of life willingly or they will be forced upon us one way or the other.