A witch is in town

Myths are strong motivators for people. Most advertisement is based on creating myths. So if Wicca works the way Witch describes, so what? She did put 'Magick' between quotes, didn't she? Compare it also with relaxation exercises: 'Imagine your body is X'. They work, even if you perfectly well know that your body is not really 'X'.
That's right and when rational people fall into the trap of accepting or promoting myths, no matter what the rationale, we are doomed. Lois I don't think so, Lois. We have to operate in a world where a great many people (who are otherwise rational) operate according to superstitions/religious beliefs/or are myth-based in their worldview. This may seem delusional to us, but we are certainly not doomed because these alternate worldviews exist or will continue to exist, unless the alternate worldviews are allowed to motivate others to extinguish our particular worldview. Meanwhile, I think that it is more important to help others regardless of their particular current worldview, than to imagine that we can somehow stamp out superstitious worldviews by steadfastly refusing to ever communicate with others on their level. And, also, I think that one can appreciate the underlying positive messages of some myth, while still recognizing that it is based in fiction. In my view, some people are simply not ready (and some may never be) to take on a worldview that is completely reality based. Are you suggesting that persons in helping roles should be less potentially effective, with those persons, in the name of promoting our worldview? If so, I disagree. I'm sorry o disgree on this issue because we seem to agree on so much. First, I do not think that even people in helping roles need to enbraceirrational worldviews in order to help people with irrational world views. There are ways to help without joining in with irrational (or just plain inhumane) thought. I think we have to respect boundaries in order to help anyone. Let's change your post here to be about racism (just as an example, racism also being based on myth). Would you have written the following? "We have to operate in a world where a great many people (who are otherwise rational) operate according to racist principles based in their worldview. This may seem wrong to us, but we are certainly not doomed because these alternate worldviews exist or will continue to exist, unless the alternate worldviews are allowed to motivate others to extinguish our particular worldview. Meanwhile, I think that it is more important to help others regardless of their particular current worldview, than to imagine that we can somehow stamp out racism by steadfastly refusing to ever communicate with others on their level. And, also, I think that one can appreciate the underlying positive messages of some forms of racism, while still recognizing that it is based in fiction. "In my view, some people are simply not ready (and some may never be) to take on a worldview that is completely free of racism. . ." Lois I, too, appreciate that we agree on so much. I think it's okay that we sometimes disagree. As to your point, religiosity is not racism. But I think that there are some similarities. For example, I think that both are partially inherent phenomena. Other example of their similarities, I think, are that racism exists, on some level in a great majority of the human population, and will most likely continue to exist. But they are not the same thing, and admittedly, I am less inclined to be motivated to help someone who engages in overt racist actions. But if I were obliged to do so, I can imagine a situation in which I might attempt to communicate with an overt racist, on their level. Most of my professional life, was spent in the field of mental health. Thus I have had many interactions during that that time with acutely delusional persons. It is sometimes critical to connect with such persons, for their immediate safety and the safety of others. It is important to know, in such cases, that you cannot argue with a delusion. Thus I can imagine myself temporarily engaging in overtly racist dialogue with a person who is in the throes of a racist delusion, (until their meds kicked in, or they were otherwise, under control), in order to connect with them and get them calmed down, in the meantime. Now, to the most important difference, in the context of this discussion, between religiousness and racism. Religion is embraced by most of the people of the world. It is even explicitly protected by our Constitution. Racism on the other hand, is considered taboo, by most people in our society. (It is so taboo, that I think that there are many racist people who have so suppressed their personal racism, that they don't even recognize their own personal racist attitudes and actions.) It is so taboo, that a smart guy like Mark Cuban gets in trouble by in-artfully trying to explain his opinion (which I share) that racism exists on some level in just about all of us. So rather than trying to suppress every racist thought, we might be better off, trying to identify our own racist thoughts and attitudes, in order to become better at insuring that we each avoid engaging in racist actions.
Myths are strong motivators for people. Most advertisement is based on creating myths. So if Wicca works the way Witch describes, so what? She did put 'Magick' between quotes, didn't she? Compare it also with relaxation exercises: 'Imagine your body is X'. They work, even if you perfectly well know that your body is not really 'X'.
That's right and when rational people fall into the trap of accepting or promoting myths, no matter what the rationale, we are doomed. Lois I don't think so, Lois. We have to operate in a world where a great many people (who are otherwise rational) operate according to superstitions/religious beliefs/or are myth-based in their worldview. This may seem delusional to us, but we are certainly not doomed because these alternate worldviews exist or will continue to exist, unless the alternate worldviews are allowed to motivate others to extinguish our particular worldview. Meanwhile, I think that it is more important to help others regardless of their particular current worldview, than to imagine that we can somehow stamp out superstitious worldviews by steadfastly refusing to ever communicate with others on their level. And, also, I think that one can appreciate the underlying positive messages of some myth, while still recognizing that it is based in fiction. In my view, some people are simply not ready (and some may never be) to take on a worldview that is completely reality based. Are you suggesting that persons in helping roles should be less potentially effective, with those persons, in the name of promoting our worldview? If so, I disagree. I'm sorry o disgree on this issue because we seem to agree on so much. First, I do not think that even people in helping roles need to enbraceirrational worldviews in order to help people with irrational world views. There are ways to help without joining in with irrational (or just plain inhumane) thought. I think we have to respect boundaries in order to help anyone. Let's change your post here to be about racism (just as an example, racism also being based on myth). Would you have written the following? "We have to operate in a world where a great many people (who are otherwise rational) operate according to racist principles based in their worldview. This may seem wrong to us, but we are certainly not doomed because these alternate worldviews exist or will continue to exist, unless the alternate worldviews are allowed to motivate others to extinguish our particular worldview. Meanwhile, I think that it is more important to help others regardless of their particular current worldview, than to imagine that we can somehow stamp out racism by steadfastly refusing to ever communicate with others on their level. And, also, I think that one can appreciate the underlying positive messages of some forms of racism, while still recognizing that it is based in fiction. "In my view, some people are simply not ready (and some may never be) to take on a worldview that is completely free of racism. . ." Lois I, too, appreciate that we agree on so much. I think it's okay that we sometimes disagree. As to your point, religiosity is not racism. But I think that there are some similarities. For example, I think that both are partially inherent phenomena. Other example of their similarities, I think, are that racism exists, on some level in a great majority of the human population, and will most likely continue to exist. But they are not the same thing, and admittedly, I am less inclined to be motivated to help someone who engages in overt racist actions. But if I were obliged to do so, I can imagine a situation in which I might attempt to communicate with an overt racist, on their level. Most of my professional life, was spent in the field of mental health. Thus I have had many interactions during that that time with acutely delusional persons. It is sometimes critical to connect with such persons, for their immediate safety and the safety of others. It is important to know, in such cases, that you cannot argue with a delusion. Thus I can imagine myself temporarily engaging in overtly racist dialogue with a person who is in the throes of a racist delusion, (until their meds kicked in, or they were otherwise, under control), in order to connect with them and get them calmed down, in the meantime. Now, to the most important difference, in the context of this discussion, between religiousness and racism. Religion is embraced by most of the people of the world. It is even explicitly protected by our Constitution. Racism on the other hand, is considered taboo, by most people in our society. (It is so taboo, that I think that there are many racist people who have so suppressed their personal racism, that they don't even recognize their own personal racist attitudes and actions.) It is so taboo, that a smart guy like Mark Cuban gets in trouble by in-artfully trying to explain his opinion (which I share) that racism exists on some level in just about all of us. So rather than trying to suppress every racist thought, we might be better off, trying to identify our own racist thoughts and attitudes, in order to become better at insuring that we each avoid engaging in racist actions. Racism WAS indeed embraced by a majority of Americans in the not too distant past. It was also embraced wholeheartedly by Nazis and others in Eastern Europe. But I don't think we make progress on changing people's beliefs on racism or religious myth when we pretend to embrace those things for the sake of making a point to those who do. Martin Luther King did not win civil rights for black people by "communicating with racists on their own level." He came right out and said, unequivocally, "Racism is wrong, and here's why." Lois
Hey WITCH... Are you kidding me? You're German and transsexual??? What are you doing here, trying to copy me ;) Hehe... Welcome home, baby! Your sweet lil' siaster, Michelle
Hi Michelle, Why should I kidding you? I do not know you. Or I know you but, as a "ThePassenger"? I have recently opened a small private website. I am a Wiccan. And you? What tells you this term: Merry meet and merry part? If you are a Wiccan, you know it. Hi Linda, "Are you kidding me?" is just a way of speaking... No, I'm not a witch, and I'm not really familiar with Wicca, except for the two poles and Woman being first among equals. The nature part never really turned me off, but the submission to a coven and keeping schedules did ;) So, you are German? Where from? I'm from Stuttgart. Schwobalaendle :) Isn't the Blocksberg somewhere in that area? I think it is. Don't even know my own country... :) See you around... Michelle
Racism WAS indeed embraced by a majority of Americans in the not too distant past. It was also embraced wholeheartedly by Nazis and others in Eastern Europe. But I don't think we make progress on changing people's beliefs on racism or religious myth when we pretend to embrace those things for the sake of making a point to those who do. Martin Luther King did not win civil rights for black people by "communicating with racists on their own level." He came right out and said, unequivocally, "Racism is wrong, and here's why." Lois
Racism was, indeed, embraced by many humans in our not so distant past. And now it is severely taboo in most societies and even most subcultures. (And as I said, I think racism still exists on some level, in the hearts and minds of most people.) And of course, I would never contend that pretending to embrace racism OR religion is a way to change their beliefs. What I said, in case you don't recall, (or in case I did not state it clearly and coherently enough) is that, sometimes, persons in helping roles might be more effective in helping, the person they are trying to help, deal with their problem, by communicating with the person, in terms that are consistent with that person's' own religious worldview. Hence, e.g., a not particularly superstitious witch, trying to help a severely superstitious person be more effective on a job interview, embeds practical advice within a "magical" framework, and wah-lah, the person follows the advice and has a better job interview. Consider this, if you spoke with a 3 year old, the same way that you do with an adult peer, would the 3 year old, be able to process what you were saying? Would the 3 year old continue to attend to what you were saying? And, again, the phenomena of religiousness and racism, while they share some similarities, are not the same thing, in other important social respects.
So, you are German? Where from? I'm from Stuttgart. Schwobalaendle :) Isn't the Blocksberg somewhere in that area? I think it is. Don't even know my own country... :) See you around... Michelle
Hi Michelle, I'm sorry that I write just now, but I'm very busy in my new job. I live in Berlin. This is in the east of Germany. You live in Stuttgart, which is in the south. The block mountain (Blocksberg, Blockula) is located in the Harz. Here is a little information about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockula

@TimB,

As to your point, religiosity is not racism. But I think that there are some similarities. For example, I think that both are partially inherent phenomena. Other example of their similarities, I think, are that racism exists, on some level in a great majority of the human population, and will most likely continue to exist.
I agree that religions are not racist per se, but the reality is that (especially) the Abrahamic religions are "exclusive" which in practice is the same principle as racisms. We call it "Fundamentalist zealotry ". You obey and practice our specific religion and becomee one of us or you are the devil (infidel, non-believer) which must be eradicated. Take ISIS, when they invade a town they demand that all in the town convert to their brand of Islam. If you do not, you die. I cannot help see a plantation with slaves being treated as animals and if they object, they end up hanging from a tree. Of course, at that time, blacks were not considered "full" human and could be sold as cattle. Same principle, different motive. For a few thousand years now religious exclusivity is causal to conflict and death. IMO, religious zealotry is more pernicius than racism. Fortunately the practice of racism is illegal here in the US, but religion is exempt from any restriction, by law. But in Muslim countries Sharia Law is based on religious scripture and is forced on the population.