Are Humans Inherently Unsustainable?
psik
That has never been scientists' responsibility What about a media community where blatant lying about facts is accepted as standard operating procedure.I do not share your worship of scientists. The Bell Curve dictates that the majority of them are mediocre scientists. Some admitted that they didn't accept AGW until 2005. But that is OK because they have degrees in science.No psik, I don't worship scientists, I do have a great deal of respect for them, and the scientific process beats any other learning process humans have devised. But none of that rises to worship, you're just trying to taint me. shame, shame But, if you want to play that game - I suggest we damn the entire American Mental Health Community for not standing up and screaming bloody murder at the Cheney/Bush Administration with their utterly insane plan to invade Iraq for no justification. That plan was absolutely guaranteed to create many, many more committed terrorists than existed at the time, plus guaranteed to screwed up untold American lives in the process totally screwing over the civilian population over there. How about condemning Hollywood for the crap they pump out that's all built on illusion and a fantasy of limitless means and resources. etc. etc.
How do you figure that?Staying in the subject area of the post “climate change". So there is no dancing around. All the programs we have today were put together by scientists. Then backed by political factors and presented to the public. Can you name a few that were not?Oh the pattern is so pathetically typical. First self-certain slander towards serious scientists while misrepresenting their work, When confronted with facts that show the lies to substance less, then come the diversions, perhaps followed by a little personal innuendo, Then they declare victory in their heads and disappear from the discussion. But was anything learned :sick:
PS. How the hell can anyone name a few, when you won’t even define what f’n programs you are talking about? >:-(
Another tactic brought to you by the Ink Tanks of the Republican/libertarian attack on serious science -
keep it vague - heighten confusion - destroy all attempts at clarity.
I’m a bit late to this party, but I’d like to add my two cents.
Also, I think that a big part of the problem is that most people in our country are "faithers", by which I mean, they are people who are conditioned to believe based on what they want to believe, regardless of any pesky facts that might contradict what they have chosen to believe.True, there are too many people who go to Faux News for their 'facts,' or get what they want to hear from conservative politicians or their preacher, but I think there's an even simpler and more fundamental problem: Climate science is telling people something that they just don't want to hear. Even without being a useful idiot in service to oil interests and whatnot, acknowledging anthro global warming means one more thing to feel responsible for. One more big impersonal problem, that lacks any feasible personal solution. "I could give up driving, but how would I get to work? I could cut down on driving, but how would I visit dear Aunt Mildred, or take the kids to Disney Place?" etc. Also, global warming goes against 'common sense' wisdom. We humans are wired to worry about immediate, personally observable existential problems, which global warming is not. You can't see that the climate is changing just by looking, unless you live on a sea-level coast. In fact the weather often makes global warming seem downright absurd; this past winter, for example, would. Not. Let. Go. Now, 97% of scientists agree that anthro global warming is real, and I don't think they're part of any big conspiracy or mass blunder...but honestly, I don't know how to explain this past winter! Ironically, global warming would be an easier sell if scientists did throw in some pseudoscience bullshit. "Recent studies show that pre-industrial people had 1000% more and better sex than we do! The [strike]greenhouse[/strike] liberal gases we're putting into the air is killing our libido and our orgasms!" They could also throw in some God-speak so that the fundy religious crowd had something to grab onto: "God said to us 'go forth and multiply,' and we're failing in that responsibility. Also, God told me that those [strike]greenhouse[/strike] liberal gases are making teh gay! So we've got to stop polluting God's green Earth before all of our children contract teh gay!" Get enough politicians and pundits regurgitating this nonsense, and I guarantee that global warming would be a problem of the past within 50 years. :)
I think your original question might be off the mark. It's not that climate science isn't convincing anyone...I'm sure most people are convinced. It's just that most people are just overwhelmed by problems, mostly personal/financial. And on top of that, the gov is so disfunctional that people are beaten into believing there's little they can do.Also this. I vote for the more responsible politicians, I drive a small car, and I'm planning to start work as a solar farm engineer by the end of the month *knock on wood*, but other than that...I don't know what I can do about global warming. Its true solution requires consensus on a global scale, which doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon. Even the U.N. nations can't agree] on what to do about it...and I'm not sure how much they could do even if they agreed.
I'm a bit late to this party, but I'd like to add my two cents.Seems to me your comments are pretty much on the mark. As for your solution to public education, damned if that might not work better than all this education science and learn to love your planet blah, blah, blah. As for what to do about it on a personal level - wow, that could make an interesting thread in itself. Your question about regional extreme cold events and the dynamics of what I like calling our global heat and moisture distribution engine is much easier. The Jet Stream is a high altitude very fast air current that divides the temperate and the polar air masses. Because of global warming that Jet Stream is starting to meander more than it has in human memory. Next time you are experiencing a very cold wave, take a look at satellite maps and take a look at what happening in Arctic region, bet you nickels to donuts, extreme heat waves is what you'll find. If you want to learn more about the topic Jennifer Francis - Understanding the Jetstream - 5:30 min youtube.com/watch?v=_nzwJg4Ebzo Dr Jennifer Francis - Arctic Sea Ice, Jet Stream & Climate Change youtube.com/watch?v=gAiA-_iQjdU - 11:11 min Arctic Amplification (Extreme Weather): Jennifer Francis June 6, 2013 youtube.com/watch?v=tY0RdXmLGdU - 29:22Also, I think that a big part of the problem is that most people in our country are "faithers", by which I mean, they are people who are conditioned to believe based on what they want to believe, regardless of any pesky facts that might contradict what they have chosen to believe.True, there are too many people who go to Faux News for their 'facts,' or get what they want to hear from conservative politicians or their preacher, but I think there's an even simpler and more fundamental problem: Climate science is telling people something that they just don't want to hear. Even without being a useful idiot in service to oil interests and whatnot, acknowledging anthro global warming means one more thing to feel responsible for. One more big impersonal problem, that lacks any feasible personal solution. "I could give up driving, but how would I get to work? I could cut down on driving, but how would I visit dear Aunt Mildred, or take the kids to Disney Place?" etc. Also, global warming goes against 'common sense' wisdom. We humans are wired to worry about immediate, personally observable existential problems, which global warming is not. You can't see that the climate is changing just by looking, unless you live on a sea-level coast. In fact the weather often makes global warming seem downright absurd; this past winter, for example, would. Not. Let. Go. Now, 97% of scientists agree that anthro global warming is real, and I don't think they're part of any big conspiracy or mass blunder...but honestly, I don't know how to explain this past winter! Ironically, global warming would be an easier sell if scientists did throw in some pseudoscience bullshit. "Recent studies show that pre-industrial people had 1000% more and better sex than we do! The [strike]greenhouse[/strike] liberal gases we're putting into the air is killing our libido and our orgasms!" They could also throw in some God-speak so that the fundy religious crowd had something to grab onto: "God said to us 'go forth and multiply,' and we're failing in that responsibility. Also, God told me that those [strike]greenhouse[/strike] liberal gases are making teh gay! So we've got to stop polluting God's green Earth before all of our children contract teh gay!" Get enough politicians and pundits regurgitating this nonsense, and I guarantee that global warming would be a problem of the past within 50 years. :)I think your original question might be off the mark. It's not that climate science isn't convincing anyone...I'm sure most people are convinced. It's just that most people are just overwhelmed by problems, mostly personal/financial. And on top of that, the gov is so disfunctional that people are beaten into believing there's little they can do.Also this. I vote for the more responsible politicians, I drive a small car, and I'm planning to start work as a solar farm engineer by the end of the month *knock on wood*, but other than that...I don't know what I can do about global warming. Its true solution requires consensus on a global scale, which doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon. Even the U.N. nations can't agree] on what to do about it...and I'm not sure how much they could do even if they agreed.
Thanks for those vids, citizenschallenge! Didn’t know anything about the jet stream until Dr. Francis. Still trying to digest how it works, and how it results in this arctic amplification. I’m trolling google for visual aids, because I don’t even understand how the jet stream becomes wavy (with or without amplification).
Thanks for those vids, citizenschallenge! Didn't know anything about the jet stream until Dr. Francis. Still trying to digest how it works, and how it results in this arctic amplification. I'm trolling google for visual aids, because I don't even understand how the jet stream becomes wavy (with or without amplification).Seems to me every natural current has "wavy" at the heart of it. But not all waves are created equal ;-P You sent me off on a fun YouTube surf ride. First I searched "what causes Jet Stream to meander" some fun stuff there. but it developed into "why is meandering so common in nature?" Which led to this nice video
Pattern Formation in Nature Nerdy Videos from a Physicist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeKWDOJvK2oThen it drifted into fractals. … lots of fun stuff out there to learn about.
I imagine that most the participants here at CFI trust in the scientific consensus regarding Anthropogenic Global Warming. I also imagine that most of you are over a half century old, thus have known about AGW concerns most your adult lives. I'm curious because here we are 2015 and many of our worst fears are starting to play out before our eyes, polar and glacier melting, weather intensification, sea level impacts, yet the public seems more confused about our roll (responsibility) than ever. Anyone here have any thoughts about why the scientific findings and basic facts have been so easily overwhelmed by slick but actually rather superficial PR campaigns?Money, greed and deliberate ignorance. Lois
“A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree, and he turns away. Show him facts or figures, and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic, and he fails to see your point." So said Stanford University psychologist Leon Festinger in the 1950s.http://lancasteronline.com/opinion/columnists/climate-change-beliefs-must-not-be-allowed-to-trump-science/article_76e2405a-c5d2-11e5-9829-232deedff40a.html psik