oops
So how bad is “irreversible”? Are we in serious trouble now or in several years from now? Is it really too late to do anything or can we still do something?
So how bad is "irreversible"? Are we in serious trouble now or in several years from now? Is it really too late to do anything or can we still do something? http://www.livescience.com/45529-loss-of-antarctic-glacier-is-irreversible-nasa-scientists-say-animation.htmlWell, full collapse couple centuries I'll bet denialists make a big deal out of… HEY! it Could take as long a thousand years for full collapse, who cares. Ignoring that it could turn out to be a few decades to a century - considering how the past couple decades have shocked all cryosphere experts, with the speed of the Arctic ice cap, and Greenland's, respective march towards disintegration. so the denialists can have a good laugh and go on their merry way. Ignoring that this is also impacting important climate-machine circulation patterns today. The thing is - another "tipping point" has been passed, and considering that our planet will not be cooling off, unless the sun decides to power down, we know that our coastal cities are on borrowed time. It's a complex story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQMtb1Pd07E If you want a better understanding about sea levels and what's actually going on - here is the man to listen to. It's an hour talk and worth every fascinating minute - at times down right mind-blowing (the first few times through) A reflection of the state of the science as of 2010, from a man with 20 yrs of experience. A genuine expert, Dr. Jerry X. Mitrovica.
In Search of Lost Time: Ancient Eclipses, Roman Fish Tanks and the Enigma of Global Sea Level Rise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdfTUdU9x-k Uploaded on Aug 17, 2010 What do ancient eclipse records kept by Babylonian, Chinese, Arabic and Greek scholars, and fish tanks, built by wealthy Romans during100BC-100AD, contribute to our understanding of modern climate change? Dr. Jerry X. Mitrovica will describe the important role these archaeological treasures have played in the understanding of sea-level rise and how they help scientists both "fingerprint" sources of recent sea level changes and make more accurate projections of future sea levels.
Full collapse in a couple of centuries? So does that mean we have time to slow it down or reverse it? Is it possible to reverse it?
Full collapse in a couple of centuries? So does that mean we have time to slow it down or reverse it? Is it possible to reverse it?Couple centuries is a semi-educated guess, couple centuries to a thousand years, I imagine based more on physics, than any understanding of the cascading dynamics we've kicked into motion. Keep in mind the speed of Arctic and Greenland thawing has astounded all cryosphere experts. Reverse it - Nope. Not unless the sun decides to turn down the volume. Trust me, Mitrovica can explain it way better than me, and he actual knows what he's talking about. Specifically, start about 48:00ish
Dr. Jerry X. Mitrovica. In Search of Lost Time: Ancient Eclipses, Roman Fish Tanks and the Enigma of Global Sea Level Rise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdfTUdU9x-kHere's yet more details regarding what's happening down there: THE SOUTHERN OCEAN OBSERVING SYSTEM: Initial Science and Implementation Strategy Check out the map on page 15
Oh poop, look at that red line along the Mississippi Valley, {9 Mtn time/ 5/12/14} bet there's some more misery going down right now … and the Republican/Libertarian b@$^rds laugh at CAGW. Welcome to the new normal, and our baby climate monster is just beginning to crawl. Wake up folks, Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming is here! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ PS. http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2014/05/currys-cynical-cagw-memeplex.html ============================================================ Well I got a bit lathered up, seems things aren't going that badly http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/watch/ doesn't show any tornado warnings lot's of High Wind Advisories at http://www.wunderground.com/severe.asp Although "newsBlogged" has a Tornado News + Warnings Latest Real-Time Updates http://newsblogged.com/tornado-news-latest-real-time That does indicate there have been tornadoes with damage, weird that the spc.noaa map doesn't show anything.Well that stinks I thought I had me a static screen shot here… oh well never mind. Check the weather in Florida at the time of posting - this was during the tornado outbreak. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Akron Tornado 2014 Tonight Prompts Ohio Immediate Alert" Posted: May 12th, 2014 in Tornado by LALATE "First, an Akron tornado threat tonight is active right now."OK, I was at wrong page http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/wwa/ does have warnings specked throughout that band of red.
OK, but the guy speaking in that video you posted, citizenchallenge, was speaking from this moment. He was speaking before this happened. Unless everyone accepts the science, which there are still denier and that is horrifying to me, we can’t even slow it down. One of the reasons we are at this point is due to deniers. We might not be at this point if it weren’t for climate change deniers.
So how bad is "irreversible"? Are we in serious trouble now or in several years from now? Is it really too late to do anything or can we still do something? http://www.livescience.com/45529-loss-of-antarctic-glacier-is-irreversible-nasa-scientists-say-animation.htmlThe really annoying thing is that we are treading into the UNKNOWN. First of all there is a time delay in the effects of everything we do. CO2 that we put into the atmosphere years ago will not produce their full effects for years to come. So if there is a tipping point three years away we could not stop reaching it even if we could go to ZERO CO2 emissions right now. Conducting uncontrolled experiments on a planet when you only have one to live on is really dumb. We probably will not know about a tipping point until after we have passed it. The climate models can only tell us about what we do understand reasonably well. Anything out there that we don't know about may wack us in the head. psik
Humm… Makes one wish we could go back to the 19th Century, when “progress” was being discussed as coal ran trains and turn things into water, solar, and wind power, but then how would we make trains go? I don’t know, but it seems like “progress” has turned into the “progress” of human demise. Not now, but in the future… maybe a century from now. However, I don’t think the human species has ever produced zero CO2 emissions. Even when we burned just wood, we put out CO2 and before that, the gaseous emissions of human fecal waste alone put out some CO2, so it’s not possible for humans to produce zero CO2 emissions. The best we could do is low or natural CO2 emissions, but that would probably prevent us from living with electricity and force us to go back to living in caves. That wouldn’t work, so it is impossible to even return to natural CO2 emissions only.
I have not heard of one of these being built and tested yet.
http://www.infoniac.com/environment/latest-invention-synthetic-tree-to-collect-huge-amounts-of-co2.html
psik
OK, but the guy speaking in that video you posted, citizenchallenge, was speaking from this moment. He was speaking before this happened.
Dr. Jerry X. Mitrovica. In Search of Lost Time: Ancient Eclipses, Roman Fish Tanks and the Enigma of Global Sea Level Rise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdfTUdU9x-kI'm assuming you mean Dr. Mitrovica. That talk was given four years ago, but by then the topography under the West Antarctic ice sheet was being deciphered, and we had already witnessed some radical ice shelf disintegration. Plus other dynamic were being learned about. He was talking about what to look out for. Now more data appears to be in, so it's gone from educated intuition to quantifiable fact. But, the problem and yesterday's announcement had been anticipated by those in the know. Heck I'm knocked for over-stating the science - but though Earth is complex, it follows simple rules. I'm just not as steeped in clinging to this modern state of mind - that won't recognize our mistakes, or consider changing the 'greed is good' mentality that has driven humanity for so long. The clinging to which continues to cripple rational thinking in most - what they 'wish for' overrides the scary truths out there, so like deer caught and frozen in the headlights we stand here waiting for the impact. Take the Jet-stream - better not say extreme weather producing JS meandering is caused by global warming. Even though things started going weird as atmosphere warmed, Arctics summer ice cover radically declined, creating massive moist air convention patterns into the atmosphere…. nah we are not allowed to claim the connection… why because every link in the chain hasn't been "quantified" to everyone's satisfaction. So the deniers will fiddle away and wait for absolutely positive quantifiable proof which can only be achieve by waiting until the irreparable harm has occurred. But, then these are the same folks who believe guns and wars are the solution to everything. sorry I digress again.
Unless everyone accepts the science, which there are still denier and that is horrifying to me, we can't even slow it down. One of the reasons we are at this point is due to deniers. We might not be at this point if it weren't for climate change deniers.Yup, if everyone, righties and lefties had agreed on the seriousness of the known facts back in the 70s, 80s and tackled this problem together… it would have humanities brightest moment. But we blew it, being too busy blowing up other places around the world.
I have not heard of one of these being built and tested yet. http://www.infoniac.com/environment/latest-invention-synthetic-tree-to-collect-huge-amounts-of-co2.html psikYup. That's what happens when folks are more interesting in selling PR than in actually accomplishing something. =============== PS. Re the Jet Stream meandering: Jennifer Francis - Understanding the Jetstream - meandering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nzwJg4Ebzo Climate Change 2013: Greenland Ice Sheet & Northern Polar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9euZ6q4bEKs
Unless everyone accepts the science, which there are still denier and that is horrifying to me, we can't even slow it down. One of the reasons we are at this point is due to deniers. We might not be at this point if it weren't for climate change deniers.Yup, if everyone, righties and lefties had agreed on the seriousness of the known facts back in the 70s, 80s and tackled this problem together… it would have humanities brightest moment. But we blew it, being too busy blowing up other places around the world. Therein lies the problem- too many people, although possibly a small minority, but still too many, cannot accept science. Denying vaccines, evolution, etc didn't bite them in the butt, but climate change is and will. Besides denial, greed is that other issue, in fact, Silly Shortmind (Billy Long-MO-R house rep) said to go clean and rid ourselves of coal would cost jobs and companies to go out of business. *rolling eyes* Yes, it would have been good if humans could have accepted the facts and started doing something about it in the 70s when we were originally told about it, but nobody listened and even the scientist, who first mentioned it, was criticized by his fellow scientists, who soon figured out he was right. So not even scientists can get together on things until it starts becoming obvious to them, which is generally sooner than the rest of humans. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/science/earth/collapse-of-parts-of-west-antarctica-ice-sheet-has-begun-scientists-say.html
I have not heard of one of these being built and tested yet. http://www.infoniac.com/environment/latest-invention-synthetic-tree-to-collect-huge-amounts-of-co2.html psikI don't know why we couldn't stop chopping down forests, plant trees and cacti, as well as use these things (if they actually do work). It might save some money to do all three, thereby not having to spend as much on these fake trees, that don't even remotely look like trees. I don't want my grandchildren to consider these fake trees as actual trees.
I don't know why we couldn't stop chopping down forests, plant trees and cacti, as well as use these things (if they actually do work). It might save some money to do all three, thereby not having to spend as much on these fake trees, that don't even remotely look like trees. I don't want my grandchildren to consider these fake trees as actual trees.I don't know how much more effective they must be than real trees to be justifiable. I would presume at least 10 times as effective. But I do not see why they could not be combined with wind generators. Get two functions out of a single base. What I find odd is no discussion of how much planned obsolescence contributes to CO2 production. But that presents the problem of creating jobs also. We have too many interconnected dependencies. For every problem there are 10 people with a vested interest in not solving it. psik
You are quite rignt in your post #32, Mriana, except for one thing. I wish you were right in your optimism -
too many people, although possibly a small minority, but still too many, cannot accept science.Unfortunately, I keep seeing surveys that indicate that at least half of the U.S. citizens don’t believe in evolution, and don’t understand most of science. I attribute that to our continuing underfunding of education. Until we make a major fiscal turn-around, I think things will only get worse.
Occam
You are quite rignt in your post #32, Mriana, except for one thing. I wish you were right in your optimism -Quite right. Underfunding of schools, esp in science is a major part of the problem. However, part of the reason science is underfunded is due to the Religious Reich's influences and having their hands in our government. If we could get them out of our government, that would be a big start.too many people, although possibly a small minority, but still too many, cannot accept science.Unfortunately, I keep seeing surveys that indicate that at least half of the U.S. citizens don't believe in evolution, and don't understand most of science. I attribute that to our continuing underfunding of education. Until we make a major fiscal turn-around, I think things will only get worse. Occam
Use religion to address the problem in order to defeat the problem.
God spoke to me last night and told me that polluters of the earth’s atmosphere with CO2 will “surely die and spend eternity in Hell”.
This cannot be challenged or disproven by anyone, theist and atheist alike. To do so, would deny the existence of a god and place responsibility for being a sinner with the offender.
Actually, there is a small but growing evangelical movement, who have recognized that the bible commands human “stewardship” of the earth and actively promote clean energy. I commend them for that.
Use religion to address the problem in order to defeat the problem. God spoke to me last night and told me that polluters of the earth's atmosphere with CO2 will "surely die and spend eternity in Hell". This cannot be challenged or disproven by anyone, theist and atheist alike. To do so, would deny the existence of a god and place responsibility for being a sinner with the offender.Unfortunately, some definers of stewardship say it means being free to rape the earth. LoisActually, there is a small but growing evangelical movement, who have recognized that the bible commands human "stewardship" of the earth and actively promote clean energy. I commend them for that.
Use religion to address the problem in order to defeat the problem. God spoke to me last night and told me that polluters of the earth's atmosphere with CO2 will "surely die and spend eternity in Hell". This cannot be challenged or disproven by anyone, theist and atheist alike. To do so, would deny the existence of a god and place responsibility for being a sinner with the offender.Unfortunately, some definers of stewardship say it means being free to rape the earth. Lois And that's where I get upset with some Xians, esp those who believe that crap. However, because they believe in an eternity beyond earth, they feel it doesn't matter because they have a better place to go. Humm... I don't know. If dad gives you a room to sleep in as a child, that doesn't mean you can trash and destroy it because when you grow up you can get a better place, expecting then to know how to take care of it when you never did before. Shoot! IF I were a goddess, I'd expel them from heaven/eternity/whatever they choose to call it just for not taking care of their only home- earth. The thing is, they won't ever know what they've done to future generations with their disregard for our planet because they'll be dead. I'd argue what the Bile says, but they'd just probably deny what it says because they don't read the Bile and/or create their own interpretation of it, only to accuse me of not interpreting it correctly. You have one group who says God gave us this planet and left us in charge to care for it and another group who says it doesn't matter because God's building us a better place to live for all eternity. The first I say, despite their belief in the Wizard of Oz, they are still in touch with reality, somewhat and the other group who doesn't give a damn, because they truly believe it doesn't matter because they will go to the Land of Oz. One I can tolerate, the other I can't stand.Actually, there is a small but growing evangelical movement, who have recognized that the bible commands human "stewardship" of the earth and actively promote clean energy. I commend them for that.