Well yes and no, no in that it changes often but yes in the sense that what gives me grief still lingers and shifts. It doesn’t help that when I read or watch this stuff I don’t have an answer for it and when that happens I just end up in this weird stasis, but at the same time it feels like all of it threatens what I value or care about. Like this podcast where a computational cognitive scientist shows how our concepts are just fictions or that the self is a falsification:
Sometimes your podcasts are interesting, but that’s just a coincidence. Your reaction is what matters. Like the old saying, “how you react to a difficult situation matters more than the event itself.” The world isn’t going to change but how you handle it can.
That is an awesome article. You have complained that science does not recognize the impact of these findings on culture, yet, here is an extensive study looking into that impact.
It discusses how some people are distressed when they read about new neuroscience but it also leaves plenty of room for maintaining our culture of self driven behavior. So, like you always do, you take the worst aspects of an article and confirm your bias.
Throughout, this article notes that there is no consensus, and science has not concluded that there is no free will. Reread the section on plasticity for example. I’m halfway through and need some rest, but don’t just go back to skimming articles and half-listening to podcasts. Linger on this one for a while.
What the article is saying is how people when they read neuroscience compartmentalize the findings in order to maintain their view of themselves. It’s like the part where it talks about brain plasticity and how people don’t seem to understand what that would imply about who you are in regards to the brain.
I didn’t skim it, it talks about how people pick and choose in order to live with new findings. Otherwise you end up learning stuff like this which just utterly dismantles the notion of “you” entirely:
Okay, then you cherry picked. It does say, in places, what you say it does. It’s describing people like you but it also describes others. It maintains throughout a context of how neither culture nor science have determined what the impacts of our knowledge are or should be. It does not claim certainty because we don’t have certainty. That’s what you do; you have decided what is true and how it should make us all feel then claimed your superior opinion as if it is ultimate truth.
But we do, the part about brain plasticity and lack of free will was well supported by the earlier articles I linked you and by the quora post. It’s not uncertain.
Not about consciousness but about free will, as for consciousness that’s still up for debtate. As for the article it talks about compartmentalizing the findings from neuroscience, which you seem to gloss over. It leads to stuff like this which people aren’t aware of:
Like…people think they see something “over there” but in reality they see it in their head in the model the brain makes up. It’s stuff like that the article points to (it’s in one of the two links).
Whatever. Instead of me chasing you around, tell me what you think free will is.
I didn’t gloss over anything. I acknowledge that it talks about people compartmentalizing things. It also talks about people reacting in other ways, which you just ignore.
Saying “see it in their head” is just a different way of describing what it means to see. You’re playing with words.
What do you mean by “outside” influence? Outside of what? I can’t think of anything that is completely autonomous and completely unable to be influenced by anything. “Free will” can be defined as something relative, that is, I’m free to swing my arm around but that ends at the tip of your nose. If my fist hits your nose, I will be “influenced” in a number of ways that I can’t control and will not find pleasant. I can hold my breath as long as I want, but I know I will pass out. The “outside” influence of needing oxygen will win.
You can’t even accept psychological influence, as described in the video you linked. What are you thinking? That we don’t have brains? At one time, I thought you had something worth looking into, something that could be discussed. I’ve learned about this idea of being crippled by the thought of humans being strickly biology, “just another animal”, but you have taken it way beyond that.
It’s not psychological influence, the video and the comments are saying that self expression is the product of the market or culture and that such expression isn’t present in people without culture. It even mentions how it requires a self which also requires a not self, and then references developmental psychology and some guy named Bauman.
/sarcasm/ you’re thorough research always impresses me /sarcasm off/
Of course marketing is cultural. But there’s no such thing as “no culture”. The smallest tribe has a set of myths guiding them, beliefs, memes about how to act and daily rituals. Then each individual develops their sense of self within it. A baby doesn’t have ideas about how the tribe should be governed that it then articulates and chooses freely to implement. We don’t choose every detail of our role in society.
That, and this is really pretty amazing, is the most ridiculous thing you have ever said. What is a possible option to being born into a culture? Being abandoned in the woods and raised by wolves?
Well that’s kinda uncertain, the guy I talked to mentioned feral children as an example but I mentioned that that’s not really an example because the cases we do have usually involve trauma, abuse, or something else which may color it.
But this is getting aware from my point about how the more you learn the less enjoyable life gets and that the good in life is more an illusion than anything else. You can read this guy who’s a researcher at the Santa Fe Institute and what he says about it, there is one entry here called A Trip Down the River Styx where he mentions being diagnosed with cancer and how that tends to destroy everything else because it’s “real”:
I don’t know what you are talking about, so I don’t know what examples there could be. There’s no such thing as “no culture.” This is something you might want to read up on.
This is you not accepting the reality of adulthood.
I’ll read that if I get super bored, but, I was diagnosed with cancer two months ago so I have my own ideas about how that feels. It makes me thankful for every moment I have and appreciative of the little moments in life.
Exactly. That realization is part of growing into the full experience of being human.
He does not “address” it. He has a unique experience. There is no one-right-way to deal with a cancer diagnosis. I think that’s a big part of your difficulty with reading all these perspectives and taking them on as if they are deep insights into how to face life. Sometimes they are useful, sometimes they aren’t. They are perspectives that may or may not have value. Sorting that out is part of that growing process I mentioned.
