Oh I thought of something else. Sometimes a good song can become a great song, when an artist's particular performance, makes it so.
Like Kurt Cobain's rendition of "Where Did You Sleep Last Night?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOZKz_sPM6U
You've got to watch it to the end to get the full effect--that's where you may experience an intense case of the goosebumps...
I agree and the reverse is true also. Below is one of my favorite truly great artists (singer/composer/painter) singing a few classics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ED44zz4O0&list=PL_jrKrBTmTmC6GqUGOryKxdcvRFfOob05&index=2
and her own songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLKb9Ms68ME
Notice, no fireworks, smashig of guitars, or jumping around. Just brilliance of lyrics augmented by great musicians.
And a cut:
Pat Metheny and his group playing "Third Wind" from the album "Still Life (Talking)", released in 1987.
In this album. Metheny mixes Brazilian-influenced harmonies and rhythm with jazz, folk, and pop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSmWCYNRpNs
Are you claiming that those feelings--or your interpretations of what they mean--are not subjective?
Lois
Of course they are subjective, but I know a little bit about music and I can recognize brilliance from mediocrity.
But your analysis of what is mediocre and what is brilliant is subjective. There is no absolute standard of quality. anybody or everybody can have an opinion opposite to yours.
Art does not lie in a concept, it lies in the ability to communicate the concept. As Bernstein says, notes are analoguous to words and phrases and when expressed with clarity and insight, tells a story which evokes an emotional response leading to reflection and thoughts of the noblest kind, or sometimes elicits a profound question, which again forces one to reflect and grow in understanding and appreciation of aestheticts.
Why is a portrait of a pretty woman dressed in a bikini on a coca cola sign, placed every mile along a highway forgettable, while the Mona Lisa is burned in ones mind from the moment we see it? Which do you remenber, the woman on the coca cola sign or the Mona Lisa?
Yes, there are images that are evocative or memorable to many people and sometimes there is agreement on which ones are memorable and which are not. But that doesn't mean there is an absolute standard of what is memorable. Many people would disagree with your responses to those pictures. Either or both would look ugly to some people. Agreement among people does not crate an absolute standard. Incidentally, the woman in the bikini does nothing for me.
What makes the music of Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin, and the songs by Cole Porter, Gershwin, Paul Mc Carthy, Bob Dillon, etc. unforgettable experiences?
Again, they are not unforgettable experiences to everyone and possibly not even even most people. Yes, there is something about the music and something about the people who respomd to it but it is hardly a standard. It just happens that people who grew up exposed to certain musical characteristics respond to those characterisicsin a similar way. It still says nothing about absolute "quality." people who grew up in different cutures probably would not respomd toit as you do--and you probably wouldn't respond the the music they respond to--at least not the way that they do.
What is it that sets them apart from other popular music, which may be pleasant at first audition but soon lose our interest? Because they were great artists, knowledgeable in the medium to which they spent years of study, analysis, and perfection of techniques of composing an idea into a coherent whole (a story) which continues to inspire us in the most profound ways. Have you ever wiped a tear while listening to a song which resonates internally and produces the same emotion at an ever deeper level every time we hear it and discover new aspects of the work?
Sure, but I might not respond to the same music inthe same way that you do. I might shed atear over a piece that leaves you cold, and vice versa. I still say there is no absolute standard.
There is a story that Barbra Streisant was recording a song and one of the techs changed a phrase, on the studio cut. When listening to the studio cut Barbra immediately noticed the change and insisted that it be corrected as she intended it to be heard. Another tech chided the presumption of the offending tech ny telling him to "allow the lady her book". The passage was corrected and the song became a timeless work of art by an extraordinary vocalist (artist).
That says nothing about a universal standard of music. There are millions, if not billions of people who do not respond to Barbra Streisand's singing. What does that say about universal standards? All you've demonstrated with that anecdote is that Barbra Streisand has a certain subjective opinion of the music she produces. And we know some other prople will agree with her. That is still not a universal standard.
Subjective yes, but when many people experience the same lasting subjective emotion from a work of art, it merits the title of great art, IMO. Selling products by appealing to the basest emotions (a scantily clad girl sitting on a motorcycle eating a banana) is not great art, it is commercial art, a far cry from a profoundly introspective painting. This holds true in all areas of artistic expression.
Please describe the universal standards you have found -- universal meaning that everyone from any culture would agree. With your stated standards.
Continued on the next post.
Lois