The Problem with the Problem of Evil

Religion and Secularism
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The Problem of Evil is always a fun one, but the standard response when pushed into a corner is “It’s all part of God’s plan”. And that makes some sense if we’re talking about the usual “evil” which is always something big, like a child dying of cancer, stuff like that. In that context, the reason like I said makes some sense.

But what about trivial things, like athlete’s foot. How do theists account for these trivial little “evils”? Does God’ big plan include allowing people to get itchy toes? Why would an all-knowing, all powerful god set things up so that people get bunions, warts, etc?

And I mean this seriously too.

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People good and evil is just a small conception God gave us to understand the part of the universe. It just a small tool, God is creator of good and evil and only he can use.

Isaiah 45:7

7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

Also

Isaiah 5:20

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Only God can use Evil not Lucifer or humanity. But Lucifer disobeyed and he knew and rebelled against him. War in Heaven came and great sum of angels we don’t know died with him and they cannot be brought back. Terribly thing happened but still God can use evil.

Some argue that man had freewill since the Eden and even before the Eden Lucifer had freewill. The question was is that " Why the tree of good and evil was there ? " couldn’t God see if it was planted Adam could take that tree and see into the future that Lucifer was gonna subdue poor Eva ? He can see it all and why was it there juts pluck it out and never let that thing happen in the first place ? We won’t suffer anyway and we would of had a world without the devil !

Some say he putted as a test, others he would remove later for another purpose but since we had fallen from our divinity we are in this situation. No people, God siad later that man had eaten the fruti and good and evil and that man si like God and the devil not trying to elevate ego’s here but we can reason like them.

Is there a purpose of why God created us without the tree of good and evil ? Yes, there is but wont’ tell now. It has to do with the original purpose of the tree of life. Secret of the Jews.

People our will has been always united to him before our birth when we are born we think we have independence from him or we started in this existence born a citizen in A counrty and we are not connected to him ?

We are and have always been here with freewill the error we think we are seperated from him by independance or by vote or by going to the ballot. Know we are in A greater thing and that is love. Know in how in A realm or in kingdom of love know we were never meant to be born inpendant from him. We were meant in to be with him always perhaps our idealogy of freedom and politics cannot be used in this relationship. Here two promblems that come and clash that our existence is us knowing we exist and conscience gives us the ability to know who we are and what is life and it’s purpose but the other clash is we are born/created from God and did not want us to kow good and evil but wanted to live in the garden and knowing becomes sin and we are spearate from him and know freedom is sin ?

No, we have freedom in the garden and God let Adam obey and disobey bu letting A tree there and let him had choice to not of eat of it or did eat of it. He had perfect will Adam to obey God and keep choosing freely and walking freely without asking God where to in the garden yes he did can we have the relationship Adam had with God like Jesus had with God ? Yes.

The first is that we are born into existence know we are being we are born picture this if Human created and A.I. and it could live and feel like us but still would it ask space and says he diecide evrything by itself what you would you ? let it decide already and it’s virgin mind be crisp clean and letting ti go it’s own way like the wind and goes perfectly align in the universe by itself ? Some would argue it should be free because it would fit life perfectly going it’s natural way and not our humans and animal way to destroy and control everything like our civilization has done since greeks and since romans to do. Rememeber we were never meant to be like this with A civilization and army, No.

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He sill wanted us to obey him and be in the Garden to be in paradise forever bu came the enemy ( the devil) and our paraidise ruin.
No, God-relation with man isn’t like an A.I. been created or A mamal been born to be like deer or leopard and go their natural way and live life in the circle of life. Our relation was never for the animals and us to be in paradise and no animal kill each other. We were created to live and be servants of the most high our purpose was another. He made us to choose and gave us freewill since the beggining to live but those who know what destiny is and what future,past, and present know you live you born and die say you don’t have freewill your life is planned already like animals and you live in the box. You can’t get out, Here scientist and rational humainze come to conlfict with both clashes and realize that choosing is not real !

No, people you can choose and your decison change everything but you do not have the intelligence to be humble and to wise know, our paths are can change and predetermination and God’s soveriegn and out his soveriegn do exist and have their been in destiny what he wrote changed ? Yes, God writes everything we do and writes what your going to do. But god allows probabilities billions to one that things can change and destiny can change people. We have Elijah, Huldah, and Moses who change the future of Israel and show probabilities do exist and do happen. And that’s part of outside the box that they chaneg the destiny and what God told them to do with his words and authority.

Know there is born to existence and consciuonsess in this world that we are born and theologist , writtters , and greek thinkers, german thinkers like Nietzche, socrates, aristotles, and Einstein say to leave that of A born baby consciouness is original and shows only good and A way that existence is based on human efforts not true our existence is not base on our efforts. And originality is given by our consciousness and perception but know they are wrong. This is why an error remember in this discussion man cannot know evil if not for good and evil tree it is important that we realize if an A.I. created will not undertand what God established things. So know there is A difference.

1.human created A.I. and it has freedom and born crisp clean

  1. God-man realationship we have freedom in the garden and God let Adam obey and disobey but letting A tree there and let him had choice to not of eat of it or did eat of it. He had perfect will Adam to obey God and keep choosing freely and walking freely without asking God where to in the garden yes he did. Know this the importance of freedom we must have the relation Jesus had with God and align our will with his and originaly like he wanted and know you have freedom to do only good and it is how perfect freedom is with him and know it is better than any doubt modern thinkers like Einstien, Max Planck, Aristotles and Socrates would argue about destiny predetermination, future , past and present.

The plan of God of giving thanks always is different of how he put the laws of physics and laws of probabilities in the world don’t go to conlfict everything is possible. Know that mistake was made with moses and huldah and eliajh shows that fate can be changed. But still to pray and pray and doing the impossible to change your fate your destiny of being shoemaker or being into a lawyer is possible if you want. G-d has moved the universe and the fate of our humanity in wars with assyrians when he sent an angel, he makes miracles everyday and moves time and universe. ungratefulness is what all say because they have cobnflict say it’s impossible God already plan for you everything but he’s plan of god about been thankful even when bad things and been faithful and obeying him in good and bad times isn’t about the future beenalready planned and impossible to avoid his soveriegn and he chosed the path already !

  1. what he planned premptively in how the universe wrks and moves the sun and you have night and day and you age and you were bron in A planet God wrote that. physics work and you do everyday on works and buy groceries and food he establish laws.

4.probablitlies that everything changes and destiny moves constantly even when you don’t know and G-d gives you every day to change you lifespan choose a better path by eating vegetables and changing your course of life not making the bad decison going to war and decided to go have job in kentucky and you change routes. everyday people the universe makes cracks in its fabric of how the destiny and chances are made by faith by believing by praying know God hears ya and God moves it all. Everything is possible God has used jews and did incredible things like making kings out of ordinary people makins miracles and making man into prophets and moving the universe for them. God does more thinsg we don’t know he does for us becuase he loves us.

5.Don’t be like the scientists who say everything is already planned he is a dictator god because he already decided everything for us and didn’t let us choose. know if you decided things out of nowhere and you popped out of the planet and God ceases to exist you became God you wouldn’t know what was the last things God did, then you will decide everything and you will make so many errors because you can’t do what God does, and realese finally he was right and he put things all for A reason. Those scientist agnostic thinks if they were God decided everything realized how hard God life is deciding everything and he gave you all but you made the bad decisions in life. You had all the freedom you woulnd’t know what to do with it and just make mistakes and if you were free to do everything and be A god you wouldn’t find true love you woulnd’t do things you just be the same individual looking for things and think having all the freedom and you decided everything you woulnd’t find that special thing God has for youa t the end in heaven. You will be lost and still be unperfect those scientist just blame and if they had everything they will just mess up and realize didn’t go their way either and mess up.

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I think Fox News should start paying attention to this proverb.

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Okay, I’ll try to keep it serious. It makes as much sense as all the other weird things, like the platypus, or putting the trachea and esophagus so close together. It’s bad design. Evolution assumes errors and imperfection and it accounts for why we would strive for improvement and invent possible futures to aspire to.

Since perfection is not attainable, God has to be unknowable, beyond our ability to comprehend. If not, we’d realize it’s up to us.

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Really ? God’s life is hard? That’s why he can’t be bothered with little situations like this?

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Who’s fault is this? I bet these people believe in God. After all we are all made in his image.

Question is; Does God believe in them? Too much bother? What happened to God’s image?

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imperialism - the highest form of capitalism

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Oh you are using that as a nation’s lack of commitment to help poverty in other countries?

Name me one country that contributes more to relieve the plight of these people than the US.

But you cannot cite such a religious guilt trip rules in my house. Nobody is going to declare a fatwah (death sentence) or excommunication (silence sentence) on my family for being “ungodly”.
We know that results in torture and death. Remember we tried that.

Those days are now known as the “dark ages”.
You want to return to that lifestyle?

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naah … nothing to do with it

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Lordie, that took a turn south in hurry, then it went to a whole new level, wow.

Reeling it back to the OP

This caught me by surprise, don’t recall ever thinking of stuff like cancer, or fungal infections , or a night in mosquito hell, as EVIL. They suck, and are hateful, a curse even. I’ve always thought evil was confined to the human realm. Our fantastic minds and all the stories (& gods) we learn to believe in one way or other, coupled with all the things we’ve learned to do to those we hate, or envy, which is a bit of both…

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Why don’t you start a thread in the politics section. Say capitalism is bad, we’ll agree. Then we can move on.

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I am not so sure that capitalism is bad per se. I would certainly agree that unrestricted capitalism is bad.
Actually, the bible correctly identifies greed as a deadly sin.

However the drive to stay alive is also an expressed form of greed and is necessary for motivation.

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Agreed. It’s not that simple. A nuanced discussion might be interesting. But, some people, want to make it black and white, paint an entire population with one stroke. It’s the same as me saying that all Russians are evil because of Putin when I know that many citizens are packing up and leaving that country. Or, those who once said that all Iraqis are terrorists, but when Saddam was captured and some of them could speak freely, we had to sort out the good from the bad.

My favorite is when I refer to America as a democracy when I’m speaking about the category of democracies in the world, and someone responds with “we’re not a democracy, we’re a republic”. it’s just argumentative, a deflection.

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I solve that problem with " the US is a democratic republic"… :partying_face:

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Back to the OP… I’m not saying athlete’s foot is a form of evil. So that whole public posterbation by the religious guy was beside the point.

I’m saying guys like that guy always focus on the EVIL in the world. I’m not talking about that. I’m saying, I think Lausten you mentioned this, that it’s the little things that to me at least indicate that there isn’t some all knowing, all powerful xtian like god out there. If anything it points to evolution, with it’s mistakes, etc.

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Exactly. It’s either that or “God works in mysterious ways”. Or, the gods are just tricksters, more like sprites and fairies, messing with us.

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he asked a question and it was answered. Leave it at that

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Oh dear. There you go lausten. :stop_sign:

End of discussion. :woman_facepalming:

:+1:t2:

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Hey, I still want to put in my 2 cents.

And there is “The Buddha’s Smile”.

Actually we are finally beginning a discourse of the religious and spiritual realm.

The Buddha’s Smile

The Buddha spoke about suffering in terms of food. Nothing can survive without food, even your love. If you don’t feed your love properly, your love will die. Your suffering is there because you have been feeding it. If violence, hate, despair, and fear are there, it is because you have been feeding them by your unmindful consumption. Therefore, if you know how to recognize the source of the nutrients of your suffering, and if you know how to cut off that source of nutrition, then the suffering will have to vanish.

This is a very important teaching for our time, because the amount of violence and craving in us and in our children comes from our practice of unmindful consumption — watching television, reading magazines, having poisonous conversation. We bring a lot of poisons and toxins into our body and into our consciousness. If you don’t stop producing these toxic items, and if we don’t know how to protect ourselves by mindful consumption of these items, there’s no way out.
https://www.stillwatermpc.org/dharma-topics/the-buddhas-smile-2/

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Sorry to beat a dead rented mule, but if that’s where you’re at, Buddhism or Buddhism-like thinking (which is great!), then you’re halfway to realizing the map ain’t the territory. :slight_smile: And math (including logic) falls under “the map”.